Christian Nade

[Scott Allan Key]

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I wouldn't be surprised if there was a correlation between poor mental health and abusive behaviour. But I still partly agree with you. It seems every man with a history of perpetrating abuse, usually on a woman, is now lining up to play the mental health card as an almost literal get-out-of-jail free move. People are more sympathetic to this than alcoholism.

There is a difference between those being treated by forensic psychiatry; ie criminals with mental health problems and those who themselves are vulnerable victims of horrible mental illnesses. That is because in the element of free will that is left to sufferers, some can resist urges to harm others or themselves by self-realisation at their darkest hour. Nade gave a good example of this when he heard his friend calling him when in the sea.

[monktonharp]

some of the comments have got me perplexed. he was trying it on? he was legit? an attention seeker? . the guy seems like he genuinely had to get it "off his chest" so to speak. he is of an age, in modern times where there have been hundreds or thousands of young men who have been prepared to take their own lives and many have done. pressures of modern life may be something to do with it, or it may just be more "up front" these days. good on him for putting himself in the spotlight somewhat. hope he comes out the other end a better man.

[Dashing Bob S]

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And all that does, as with the Pilot Wings episode, is stigmatise those who have genuine issues with depression and anxiety.

Sadly yes.

[CMurdoch]

[QUOTE=judas;5578603]Does this mean I have to think twice in future about calling a player a fat bxxxxd +150 times?[/

I know you are joking but it is a relevant question.
You are basically abusing someone at their work and if they have poor mental health you could be causing them harm.
Hopefully as we get older we become more thoughtful about the effect of our behaviour on others.
Either that or we end up divorced .

[CMurdoch]

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And all that does, as with the Pilot Wings episode, is stigmatise those who have genuine issues with depression and anxiety.

I think that peoples understanding and acceptance of mental health issues such as depression and anxiety, as common human conditions is far greater than it has ever been and the associated stigma is reducing. Hopefully this normalising will see people, especially men, more quickly and readily seek help and reduce associated suicides.
Public figures, like Neil Lennon, putting their hand up to say they have a problem helps with this normalisation process.
In his case it was even more impressive and useful given that he wasn't in trouble and needing to explain bad behaviour away.

The pilot wings issue is at the most complicated end of the spectrum for so many reasons and is the ultimate test for all parties.
Fortunately, most sufferers don't have such a heavy duty dilemma.

[Chic Murray]

[QUOTE=CMurdoch;5578867]

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Does this mean I have to think twice in future about calling a player a fat bxxxxd +150 times?[/

I know you are joking but it is a relevant question.
You are basically abusing someone at their work and if they have poor mental health you could be causing them harm.
Hopefully as we get older we become more thoughtful about the effect of our behaviour on others.
Either that or we end up divorced .

He's a professional footballer. He has to be a competitor to do his job. If he can't handle fans abuse, how is he meant to handle the bigger stress of winning or losing

If he can't, then he needs to find another job. This is like when Miranda Hart complained of chronic anxiety before going on stage.

Dont go on stage then, find a less stressful job.

[Northernhibee]

[QUOTE=Chic Murray;5578876]

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He's a professional footballer. He has to be a competitor to do his job. If he can't handle fans abuse, how is he meant to handle the bigger stress of winning or losing

If he can't, then he needs to find another job. This is like when Miranda Hart complained of chronic anxiety before going on stage.

Dont go on stage then, find a less stressful job.

Nah, that’s a cop out for poor employers not offering proper support for their employees. I found myself in one job having made myself very ill after we had an armed robbery and was given no support at all by my line manager - she even instructed me not to talk about it with people and had me working in a building by myself afterwards. Found myself in a bad way.

Had some very stressful jobs since but with proper support and employee relations it’s not an issue.

[Chic Murray]

[QUOTE=Northernhibee;5578891]

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Nah, that’s a cop out for poor employers not offering proper support for their employees. I found myself in one job having made myself very ill after we had an armed robbery and was given no support at all by my line manager - she even instructed me not to talk about it with people and had me working in a building by myself afterwards. Found myself in a bad way.

Had some very stressful jobs since but with proper support and employee relations it’s not an issue.

So much conversation about mental health involves people talking about themselves, rather than the individual with the probkem. Anyway. You are not comparing apple with apple.

A much higher degree of mental toughness is needed for sportsmen, entertainers etc.

Also, there is a difference between an armed robbery and getting called a fat *******

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psy...a/transference

[Northernhibee]

[QUOTE=Chic Murray;5579064]

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So much conversation about mental health involves people talking about themselves, rather than the individual with the probkem. Anyway. You are not comparing apple with apple.

A much higher degree of mental toughness is needed for sportsmen, entertainers etc.

Also, there is a difference between an armed robbery and getting called a fat *******

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psy...a/transference

I disagree, one persons “trigger” is very different from the next. If this man has been driven to the brink of suicide it’s perhaps the empathetic thing to do to think “let’s lay off a bit”rather than “**** off and find a new job then”.

[The_Horde]

[QUOTE=Chic Murray;5578876]

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He's a professional footballer. He has to be a competitor to do his job. If he can't handle fans abuse, how is he meant to handle the bigger stress of winning or losing

If he can't, then he needs to find another job. This is like when Miranda Hart complained of chronic anxiety before going on stage.

Dont go on stage then, find a less stressful job.

A complete lack of understanding of how the brain works.

Is that you Filled Rolls?

[green leaves]

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Ah depression.....well that explains his behaviour towards his ex....back handers and threats must be part of the condition

what a lovely compassionate human being you are.
Cleared of all charges and by the sound of it should never even have made it to court.
I hope you or no-one close to you suffers a depressive episode you simply havent got a scooby.
****

[kaimendhibs]

What a crass comment. I have suffered from depression for many years and don't hit or abuse my wife. Have a word with yourself

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Ah depression.....well that explains his behaviour towards his ex....back handers and threats must be part of the condition

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[kaimendhibs]

Heard it all now. Utter bullshut[QUOTE=Chic Murray;5578876]

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He's a professional footballer. He has to be a competitor to do his job. If he can't handle fans abuse, how is he meant to handle the bigger stress of winning or losing

If he can't, then he needs to find another job. This is like when Miranda Hart complained of chronic anxiety before going on stage.

Dont go on stage then, find a less stressful job.

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[Chic Murray]

QUOTE=kaimendhibs;5579215]Heard it all now. Utter bullshut

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Why do you say you that?

[Chic Murray]

[QUOTE=Northernhibee;5579155]

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I disagree, one persons “trigger” is very different from the next. If this man has been driven to the brink of suicide it’s perhaps the empathetic thing to do to think “let’s lay off a bit”rather than “**** off and find a new job then”.

Is it? What responsibility does he have to maintain a healthy mental state?

Perhaps the real answer is not to be horrible to people at all. Even if that means letting them win the game in case we trigger something, or to laugh at a comedian's jokes in case they do a Stephen Fry and go AWOL.

What about being cutting, witty or scathing on here. Maybe that's wrong, you don't know what people's triggers are

Maybe this post will send you over the edge, or your post has sent me over the edge. What if......

[StevesFamau5]

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Can't imagine what it's like to suffer depression so well done to him for speaking out and good luck

Also if anyone in the forum's feel they need to chat to anyone I'm just a PM away.

as someone who has suffered with mild depression from years of bullying at school it's refreshing to see posts like this.

Sometimes all you need is just someone to talk to no matter how small the problem may seem.

Much appreciated

[CropleyWasGod]

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QUOTE=kaimendhibs;5579215]Heard it all now. Utter bullshut

Why do you say you that?

It's the suggestion that, because he is prone to depression (for whatever reason), he shouldn't do the job that is particularly irritating for depression-sufferers.

That, as I mentioned before, is going down the path of the Pilot Wings guy.

[Chic Murray]

[QUOTE=DexterStJock;5579168]

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A complete lack of understanding of how the brain works.

Is that you Filled Rolls?

No, I'm not.

How does the brain work, and what have I misunderstood?

[Chic Murray]

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It's the suggestion that, because he is prone to depression (for whatever reason), he shouldn't do the job that is particularly irritating for depression-sufferers.

That, as I mentioned before, is going down the path of the Pilot Wings guy.

Sorry, I don't understand your second sentence.

Just to be clear, I am not saying people with an illness will never be capable of doing a job. Just that to do a competitive job, such as sport which involves winning and losing, then dealing with cat calls from fans, the stress of competition, dressing room sledging, and criticism in the press, are all challenges which would be harder to overcome when unwell.

If people are even suggesting they would abuse him away from sport, then that's scary.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Sorry, I don't understand your second sentence.

Just to be clear, I am not saying people with an illness will never be capable of doing a job. Just that to do a competitive job, such as sport which involves winning and losing, then dealing with cat calls from fans, the stress of competition, dressing room sledging, and criticism in the press, are all challenges which would be harder to overcome when unwell.

If people are even suggesting they would abuse him away from sport, then that's scary.

The Pilot Wings pilot flew a plane into the side of a mountain. He, apparently, was taking anti-depressants. Those without empathy connected the 2, and blamed the crash on his depression, without proof obviously. That led to "calls" for all pilots to be tested for anti-depressive medication, and to be banned from flying if they tested positive. An appaling stigmatisation IMO.

So, from that, and your posts, we are potentially saying to people "hey, I know you have more skill than Messi. But, you know, you're on Prozac, so you'll probably never make it....."

Surely better to say "hey, I know you have issues. And it might get difficult for you if you're having a bad game. But here's how we're going to deal with them..."

[Chic Murray]

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The Pilot Wings pilot flew a plane into the side of a mountain. He, apparently, was taking anti-depressants. Those without empathy connected the 2, and blamed the crash on his depression, without proof obviously. That led to "calls" for all pilots to be tested for anti-depressive medication, and to be banned from flying if they tested positive. An appaling stigmatisation IMO.

So, from that, and your posts, we are potentially saying to people "hey, I know you have more skill than Messi. But, you know, you're on Prozac, so you'll probably never make it....."

Surely better to say "hey, I know you have issues. And it might get difficult for you if you're having a bad game. But here's how we're going to deal with them..."

Definitely encourage them to work if they can. And coaches and employers should allow for that

This adjunct was about whether supporters have a role to play too.

I think asking supporters to become so passive that they don't barrack an opponent is going too far.

It's like asking people to laugh at a bad comedian because they have a history of schizophrenia.

[hibee316]

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He's a professional footballer. He has to be a competitor to do his job. If he can't handle fans abuse, how is he meant to handle the bigger stress of winning or losing

If he can't, then he needs to find another job. This is like when Miranda Hart complained of chronic anxiety before going on stage.

Dont go on stage then, find a less stressful job.

Our very own manager played and manages at a very high level and has well documented mental health issues.

There are countless stories of professional athletes who have mental health issues succeeding at the very top of their sports.

There is anecdotal evidence that the percentage of top athletes with mental health issues is massively higher than reported as many athletes are afraid of the stigma that exists around mental health.

A stigma which is perpetuated by statements such as "if he can't hack the stress, get another job ".

I don't see Nade complaining as you have alluded to, but highlighting an issue many people face, including top athletes.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Definitely encourage them to work if they can. And coaches and employers should allow for that

This adjunct was about whether supporters have a role to play too.

I think asking supporters to become so passive that they don't barrack an opponent is going too far.

It's like asking people to laugh at a bad comedian because they have a history of schizophrenia.

Which is completely different to your previous post about Miranda Hart. Glad we've changed your mind.

[Chic Murray]

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Our very own manager played and manages at a very high level and has well documented mental health issues.

There are countless stories of professional athletes who have mental health issues succeeding at the very top of their sports.

There is anecdotal evidence that the percentage of top athletes with mental health issues is massively higher than reported as many athletes are afraid of the stigma that exists around mental health.

A stigma which is perpetuated by statements such as "if he can't hack the stress, get another job ".

I don't see Nade complaining as you have alluded to, but highlighting an issue many people face, including top athletes.

Put it this way, if you can't do the job due to stress, you don't get paid. It's a no brainer really.

If you can do the job in the presence of it, well done.

I've already mentioned transference. Seems to me people are treating professional football as if it is the job they do. It's not.

Leave out the virtue signalling with the "perpetuating the stigma" crap please.You know hee haw about me.

[StevesFamau5]

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The Pilot Wings pilot flew a plane into the side of a mountain. He, apparently, was taking anti-depressants. Those without empathy connected the 2, and blamed the crash on his depression, without proof obviously. That led to "calls" for all pilots to be tested for anti-depressive medication, and to be banned from flying if they tested positive. An appaling stigmatisation IMO.

So, from that, and your posts, we are potentially saying to people "hey, I know you have more skill than Messi. But, you know, you're on Prozac, so you'll probably never make it....."

Surely better to say "hey, I know you have issues. And it might get difficult for you if you're having a bad game. But here's how we're going to deal with them..."

Spot on.

Another example of people in prominent sports is the NFL.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/steve-...ression-2018-8

These are guys that get paid millions to literally run into other blokes over and over again (simplifying for those unsure of American Football haha)

By the logic of some people on here, they shouldn't be doing it at all if they're "not well enough to handle it".... One thing I have learnt from my own struggles with depression is you have good days, bad days, great days and terrible days. Some come in 2s or 3s and some come in 6s or 7s. Fact is their is no pattern and anything can trigger the negative or self deprecating feelings to creep back.

For example today I feel great, I am feeling productive and confident, yet this time yesterday I was quiet reserved and trying to smile when all I wanted to do was hide away from the world. Their is no play book on depression or mental health, those who choose to demonise and stigma it are just fanning the flames of doubt for those to scared to come forward.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion on things, but some should maybe not voice it publicly

GGTTH!

[bigwheel]

[QUOTE=Chic Murray;5578876]

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He's a professional footballer. He has to be a competitor to do his job. If he can't handle fans abuse, how is he meant to handle the bigger stress of winning or losing

If he can't, then he needs to find another job. This is like when Miranda Hart complained of chronic anxiety before going on stage.

Dont go on stage then, find a less stressful job.

Well, at least we now have the dictionary definition for "Lack of Empathy"

[CropleyWasGod]

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Put it this way, if you can't do the job due to stress, you don't get paid. It's a no brainer really.

If you can do the job in the presence of it, well done.

I've already mentioned transference. Seems to me people are treating professional football as if it is the job they do. It's not.

Leave out the virtue signalling with the "perpetuating the stigma" crap please.You know hee haw about me.

Do you actually mean that?

[Chic Murray]

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Which is completely different to your previous post about Miranda Hart. Glad we've changed your mind.

If she can, good. If she can't, find another job that pays millions of pounds a year. I can see what a strain it must be for her, but I had no idea she has schizophrenia.

You know, there is a limit to how much sympathy you can have for rich people who have lots of other options open to them.

"My mental distress meant I couldn't buy my daughter a pony" type of thing. A lot of the bull on telly is aimed at first world problems.

Not helping the meths drinkers in the Cowgate much any of this.

[Chic Murray]

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Do you actually mean that?

You play football, you get dropped because you lose form due to stress. You don't get paid.

What's hard to understand?

The answer lies in supporting athletes, as you said.

[CropleyWasGod]

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If she can, good. If she can't, find another job that pays millions of pounds a year. I can see what a strain it must be for her, but I had no idea she has schizophrenia.

You know, there is a limit to how much sympathy you can have for rich people who have lots of other options open to them.

"My mental distress meant I couldn't buy my daughter a pony" type of thing. A lot of the bull on telly is aimed at first world problems.

Not helping the meths drinkers in the Cowgate much any of this.

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You play football, you get dropped because you lose form due to stress. You don't get paid.

What's hard to understand?

The answer lies in supporting athletes, as you said.

So if you were off work with stress or some sort of emotional issue, you wouldn't expect to be paid?