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  1. #61
    @hibs.net private member BSEJVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancehibs View Post
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    No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled
    Personally I would have said that it is important that fans are not unintentionally misled as I think that reads better, is easily understood and is what I think you are alluding to?

    I am not sure what indirectly misled means? Can you clarify. Don't bother I have enough intelligence to know what was meant, as I suspect do you with the point you address.

    Difference is I have chosen not to be obtuse about it or indulge in some petty point scoring exercise, which diverts us from the real aim of moving Hibs forward

    That's the problem though with farting around with the semantics of the English language there's always someone able and willing to bandy words with you over something :-)

    If you could enlighten us all with a detailed account of the difference between the two I am sure the missing 000's of contributors will jump on board HSL immediately.

    If the monies raised are going into the football budget that's all that matters to me, we could split hairs forever and a day on what that budget is, who controls it, whether it includes the reserves / development squad or academy just to begin with.

    The club's manager and executive have said on numerous occasions how much the monies raised by HSL have helped them get players they could not otherwise have afforded.

    That there are so many out there desperate to nit pick and criticise over nothing sickens me, if only they would expend so much thought, energy and commitment in furthering the aims of the club we would be in a better place.

    HSL is run entirely by good Hibs people giving up their time, and consequently their earning potential, to actively help the club and they are obliged to respond to trivialities like this when the time would be better spent driving HSL on.
    Last edited by BSEJVT; 17-10-2018 at 08:15 PM.


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  3. #62
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibeewilly View Post
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    Put simply.....if Hearts fans keep contributing to a similar level once their debt is paid off (I think that was explained by Official HSL earlier in the thread) they will have a substantial player/football budget at that point. The way I see it is that if HSL continues to increase donations/subscriptions we can get closer to them in that respect.
    Yep it's a simple concept and one I have been happy to back for some time
    I simply want Qualitty Players on the Pitch ,and to me it's a. no brainier
    to encourage as many fans as possible ,that can afford to , to come on Board
    Together we will be Stronger
    It's not about trying to get the same numbers of members as Hearts,it's about gradually growing our membership to help us stay in The Top Four and compete in Europe every Season and win Silverware
    But for some reason some fans don't see this
    Last edited by Ronniekirk; 17-10-2018 at 07:38 PM.

  4. #63
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Increase the concession ticket prices.

    They are way too cheap for over 65s. Pensioners nowadays are baby boomers, the wealthiest generation ever. It’s not the 70s anymore when pensioners were all skint!

    Have a look around you next time you’re at ER. The majority of fans will be a concession of one kind or another.

    Hospitality is full of older fans, some of who rock up in Jags and Range Rovers. Why do they get a cheap season ticket?

    So bring their prices much closer to the normal ticket price and you’ll see a significant rise in turnover.

    Of course that’s not going to be popular if it affects you, but it’s for the bigger cause, brother.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    The HSL members have the right to get rid of the current Board if they don't like them, and replace them with those they do.
    True but not really relevant to the point I was making.

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
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    I'm a bit conflicted with HSL - in that I'm not sure I really believe in fan ownership. But I do believe we need to make some effort to financially match the hearts and Aberdeen funds. I also believe that HSL's 'heart' is in the right place.

    Have to say as well that I've never understood the obsession some people seem to have with which column of a spreadsheet the money goes into?

    What difference does it make whether this money goes into the football budget, the stadium budget, the transport budget, whatever? All these budgets are required to make Hibs function, what does it matter?

    Money being 'ring fenced for' or 'going directly to' the managers fund doesnt mean 'extra' money does it? It just means less money will be taken from the main budget than would otherwise be the case?

    I'm no accountant mind you as my bank manager would happily tell you.

  7. #66
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronniekirk View Post
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    I simply want Qualitty Players on the Pitch ,and to me it's a. no brainier
    to encourage as many fans as possible ,that can afford to , to come on Board

    But for some reason some fans don't see this
    Presummably you’ve got friends, family or work mates that support Hibs? Ask them why they’ve not signed up to HSL and there’s your answer.

    We understand how it works, we just don’t agree with you!

  8. #67
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibeewilly View Post
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    Put simply.....if Hearts fans keep contributing to a similar level once their debt is paid off (I think that was explained by Official HSL earlier in the thread) they will have a substantial player/football budget at that point. The way I see it is that if HSL continues to increase donations/subscriptions we can get closer to them in that respect.
    It’s a sad sad indictment of the way way the pro game in this country has been run that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete. How has it come to this?
    I’m not knocking anybody who gives to HSL, I do myself, but it’s a ***** situation to be in.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member BSEJVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    It’s a sad sad indictment of the way way the pro game in this country has been run that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete. How has it come to this?
    I’m not knocking anybody who gives to HSL, I do myself, but it’s a ***** situation to be in.
    I am not sure I necessarily agree "that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete"

    If we strip out the share buying angle of HSL which some folk don't want anything to do with and I can understand why, isn't it the case that some like me advocate that if we want to do better and can and are willing to pay more that we can set our sights higher.

    I am too tainted by my obvious support for HSL to be taken seriously, but I would love someone to set up a poll, purely for those that don't believe in fan ownership asking them a question along the lines of

    "If there was a Managers Fund administered by HFC, where contributions made went solely into the Football Budget, would you contribute?"

    IMO we need to get moving on this issue so that in addition to those who don't believe in fan ownership, when the 25.1% shareholding is reached, guys like me who wouldn't want to see it go higher have another vehicle in place we can transition over to, to continue contributing.

    Perhaps someone on the Working Together Groups could take such a point to the next meeting, The fund that is, not the poll?

    I want us to move forward from the days of struggling to make the top 6 which good and bad blips excepted is where we have spent most of our time since the SPL in whatever guise was formed.

    Rip out the HSL money and IMO that is where we will return to

    I want us to be the best of the rest and get closer and closer to the Old Firm year on year.

    It is great that they aren't top of the league at this stage of the season, great for the Scottish game and all non OF supporters.

    What's not so great is that it is Hearts who are.

    I have spent most of my adult life watching them have the upper hand over us for long long spells, I have hugely enjoyed the last few years when they don't

    If the price of trying to ensure that we don't return to the bad old days is that I need to fork out a few quid each month and try and convince others to do the same, I am up for it.

    I think its at that point we disagree, could we compete with rest of the league without pitching in extra cash? IMO yes

    Can we compete where we want to consistently? IMO no.

  10. #69
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    I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

    How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

    We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net

  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs4185 View Post
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    I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

    How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

    We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net
    A tenner a month might be too much for some.

    The site contributes to a variety of Hibs-related initiatives. To limit all of the membership cash to just the one might not be to everyone's liking.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  12. #71
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    Presummably you’ve got friends, family or work mates that support Hibs? Ask them why they’ve not signed up to HSL and there’s your answer.

    We understand how it works, we just don’t agree with you!
    I don't need to ask as they contribute as they see the benefits on the Park Won't keep repeating myself but if those of us that do contribute stripped doing so we could start to go back to the mediocre days of Struggling to get into the Top Six never mind Top Four
    I have no idesire to see that happen to my Club so will continue contributing and continue to encourage others to fro so if they can
    It just saddens me when there is a thread to promote a Scheme that is proving to be beneficial to the Manager , people want to come on and discourage people joining

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    A tenner a month might be too much for some.

    The site contributes to a variety of Hibs-related initiatives. To limit all of the membership cash to just the one might not be to everyone's liking.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Very rough maths as I’m not sure how many members there are. If it was 8000 maybe £5 a month. Some could volunteer more per month if they could afford it.

    I know some people will say just contribute to HSL and that’s true but it’s just another route to get more people involved.

  14. #73
    Not going to read all comments on here but a lot of people won't do direct debits via a link on phone/computer, a idea may be at games use the bookie booths that are not used at this moment to promote hsl and fill in paper forms or assist in doing it online for people that are not sure

  15. #74
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs4185 View Post
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    I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

    How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

    We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net

    Good of you to commit other people’s money, when you’re not even a PM yourself. Not a penny of your own money mentioned here


    theres also the same issues that have been mentioned here, some people choose not to pay money to HSL for various reasons. Which would mean setting up 2 schemes on here (based on your proposal), and asking the admin team (who already give up their own time to manage the site as it is) to maintain the funds and bookkeeping required to do that)

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    It’s a sad sad indictment of the way way the pro game in this country has been run that clubs are now effectively begging for charitable donations to compete. How has it come to this?
    I’m not knocking anybody who gives to HSL, I do myself, but it’s a ***** situation to be in.
    You could argue that buying a season ticket, paying at the gate or buying merchandise is also a "charitable donation" in a way. In the end it is about supporting the club you love. If contributing to schemes like HSL can help the club progress than I am all for it.( and I do!) If you can afford it, it makes sense.
    Last edited by Criswell; 17-10-2018 at 11:14 PM.

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member Pagan Hibernia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    We understand how it works, we just don’t agree with you!
    so you’re now the official spokesperson for thousands of people?

    There will be many reasons; can’t afford it, never got round to it, never use a computer, still don’t know enough about it, don’t agree with it. All of which are ok in my opinion.

    But to suggest that everyone who hasn’t yet donated has sat down, thought about it and decided ‘no I don’t agree with HSL on the principles of fan ownership’ etc is nonsense imo.

    practically every HSL thread ultimately brings more people on board, which would seem to contradict your view in any case.

  18. #77
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    To be honest, if there was just a fund called "The Manager's Back pocket" (or whatever 😂) that people could donate to, monthly or one off, and that was it, I think it would be more successful.

    Rightly or wrongly, once things like share purchases, % ownership, seats on the board and debates on the precise definition of "footballing budget" crop up, some people (evidently a fair few, myself included) get turned off the concept.

    A wee "thank you" email from the club, perhaps some token gesture around Xmas time (wouldn't actually be necessary for me personally) and a cast iron guarantee that the money would be spent on/for the benefit of the 1st team squad would be plenty.

    Simplicity is what folk are after IMO.

  19. #78
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easter Rising View Post
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    so you’re now the official spokesperson for thousands of people?

    There will be many reasons; can’t afford it, never got round to it, never use a computer, still don’t know enough about it, don’t agree with it. All of which are ok in my opinion.

    But to suggest that everyone who hasn’t yet donated has sat down, thought about it and decided ‘no I don’t agree with HSL on the principles of fan ownership’ etc is nonsense imo.

    practically every HSL thread ultimately brings more people on board, which would seem to contradict your view in any case.
    I never said any of that, stop making things up.

  20. #79
    @hibs.net private member Pagan Hibernia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    I never said any of that, stop making things up.
    I haven’t made anything up. If you’re now distancing yourself from previous comments such as “by this stage we all know about HSL and how it works, we just don’t agree with it” (that’s paraphrasing things you’ve said on this and other threads but you get the idea) fair enough.

  21. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs4185 View Post
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    I think I may have the answer to raise cash in the easiest possible way.

    How many private members are there on this site? 3-4000? (I’m not one because I haven’t done my initiation test!) make it £10 a month for PM subscriptions and the admins can donate to football budget or HSL.

    We pay £10 for PM privileges (not too bad) but we contribute to hibs and we can get a service from hibs.net
    I’m all for paying towards the upkeep of Hibs.net but £10pm would be ****ing madness. I pay less than that for services that I genuinely rely on.

    That kind of subscription model would kill hibs.net imho.

  22. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSEJVT View Post
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    Personally I would have said that it is important that fans are not unintentionally misled as I think that reads better, is easily understood and is what I think you are alluding to?

    I am not sure what indirectly misled means? Can you clarify. Don't bother I have enough intelligence to know what was meant, as I suspect do you with the point you address.

    Difference is I have chosen not to be obtuse about it or indulge in some petty point scoring exercise, which diverts us from the real aim of moving Hibs forward

    That's the problem though with farting around with the semantics of the English language there's always someone able and willing to bandy words with you over something :-)

    If you could enlighten us all with a detailed account of the difference between the two I am sure the missing 000's of contributors will jump on board HSL immediately.

    If the monies raised are going into the football budget that's all that matters to me, we could split hairs forever and a day on what that budget is, who controls it, whether it includes the reserves / development squad or academy just to begin with.

    The club's manager and executive have said on numerous occasions how much the monies raised by HSL have helped them get players they could not otherwise have afforded.

    That there are so many out there desperate to nit pick and criticise over nothing sickens me, if only they would expend so much thought, energy and commitment in furthering the aims of the club we would be in a better place.

    HSL is run entirely by good Hibs people giving up their time, and consequently their earning potential, to actively help the club and they are obliged to respond to trivialities like this when the time would be better spent driving HSL on.
    A knob ... irony must be lost on you. HSL continually confuse where the money goes. I will continually challenge their misrepresentation.

  23. #82
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Jeezo, why you trying to start an argument that isn’t there?!

    I’m no spokesman for anything. Read what I said again and you’ll see that what I was getting at is that if you ask friends or family why they have not signed up that will give you an idea as to why , collectively, the majority of us haven’t.

    I agree with you that there will be many reasons.

    I’ve also never, ever tried to discourage anyone from signing up.

  24. #83
    @hibs.net private member Stuart93's Avatar
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    A worrying thought if FOH are able to hand their manager a £1.4m transfer kitty per year

  25. #84
    @hibs.net private member Pagan Hibernia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    Jeezo, why you trying to start an argument that isn’t there?!

    I’m no spokesman for anything. Read what I said again and you’ll see that what I was getting at is that if you ask friends or family why they have not signed up that will give you an idea as to why , collectively, the majority of us haven’t.

    I agree with you that there will be many reasons.

    I’ve also never, ever tried to discourage anyone from signing up.
    no bother mate.

  26. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Lucky

    The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

    Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


    HSL
    That is incredible. Struggling to believe that’s not been plan all along. There has been a view that HSL is not a fans movement. It’s a board controlled initiative to keep the board in control. Is Dempster and Dunn still on both boards ?

    Another HSL board director will become a director of Hibs without a vote.

    Individual shareholders were buying more shares. Hibs Board closed that down to give HSL a free run at it.

    All sounds fishy.

  27. #86
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    I've long been an advocate for HSL, I see the value in having a sizeable chunk of the club safeguarded by fan ownership and I understand that doesn't mean that every decision has to be voted through by the support. For me, it secures the future of the club and makes sure we never find ourselves at the whim of a Mercer or a Romanov type.

    I see the benefit of the club getting more money in, it gives us better players, a better manager, better facilities etc than we would otherwise be able to afford. This makes a Saturday afternoon (or whenever else we have to play) much more enjoyable.

    It means we can pap Hearts out the cup a few years on the spin (last season excepted), improve our derby record, beat the Old Firm, have a team full of internationalists, have a youth team that wins doubles etc - it's the upward spiral that Mowbray talked about years ago. We're already seeing the benefit of some success in our home crowds rising and staying high. We're at a point where we can cut the Glasgow teams' allocation in the away end without taking a massive hit on the income from the game.

    It's not a given that we'll stay competitive with Aberdeen and Hearts if we don't increase the money going into the team. Financially they both have a significant advantage over us at the moment, we are competitive just now because of good management across the club but IMHO that only gets you so far for so long.

    The ideal situation for me is that we eventually match the additional income that Aberdeen and Hearts get, and let our good management become our competitive advantage so we can challenge.

    The risk in not doing so is that we get left behind over the next few seasons. The strong position we find ourselves in just now is only a bad season away from being lost.

    IMHO, there's a decision to be made by everyone with an interest in the club - it's a choice to make and you either see the need to help out or you don't. If we genuinely want to challenge consistently then ultimately it's in our power to make it happen. There isn't a significant difference in fan base between us, Hearts, and Aberdeen. If we engage in the same way that those supporters have with their clubs then we can go toe to toe with them for years to come.

    That, as I see it, is the reality of the situation we're in - like it or not, if you want a winning team on the park then you need to support through season ticket sales and HSL etc.

    There's more than one way to contribute but HSL is an easy way to do it with the added benefit of getting a say in the future of the club.
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  28. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfficialHSL View Post
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    Lucky

    The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

    Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


    HSL
    Why have HSL not communicated the articles were silent on this matter?

  29. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancehibs View Post
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    Why have HSL not communicated the articles were silent on this matter?
    You've literally quoted a post where HSL have communicated that the articles were silent on this matter.
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  30. #89
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    I’m all for paying towards the upkeep of Hibs.net but £10pm would be ****ing madness. I pay less than that for services that I genuinely rely on.

    That kind of subscription model would kill hibs.net imho.
    And it will never happen.
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  31. #90
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancehibs View Post
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    Why have HSL not communicated the articles were silent on this matter?
    They just did :)

    In any event, the Articles are available to anyone if they were that interested.

    And Articles can be changed, if enough people want it.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 18-10-2018 at 07:54 AM.

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