Official HSL -The Facts About HSL Donations

[OfficialHSL]

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Re point four Rod Petrie said the funds go to the football department. Has this now changed?

No, I think that is what we said in point 4.


HSL

[OfficialHSL]

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But do the Yams not have to pay back Budge and pay off their stand debt?

I appreciate that they've probably got more fan contributions coming in (it was life or death for them to pitch in afterall), but they are starting from way back surely - even if we still have some of an interest free debt to pay back to STF.

I may be wrong but by my reckoning, if they'd not had some generous donations from un-named benefactors in addition to their fan contributions they'd be toiling to buy a road sweeper from Cowdenbeath. And that's without the broom.

Not sure that's correct. Donations from FOH is by far their biggest financial support.

HSL

[H18 SFR]

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I thought when HSL reached 20% then HSL members would elected a Director to the Hibs board not HSL Directors appoint one of their own fellow Directors.

Interesting point.

[OfficialHSL]

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It doesn't address all of your point but I'm sure I read that HSL would simply pass on your money along with the rest and it wouldn't be used for shares if you requested it ... Ultimately I hope once all the shares are in place we can continue to use HSL for additional funding towards the football dept.


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If Members are happy to continue to donate then so be it.

HSL

[WhileTheChief..]

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That IMO is the crux of the matter...……...we have to close the gap

Not sure what you mean by that?

Are you saying that Hibs fans HAVE TO donate more to HSL?? Good luck with that!!

More realistically we have to accept that Hearts fans continue to donate more than we can ever hope to achieve.

No point in comparing the two as been been mentioned since the whole thing was launched.

[OfficialHSL]

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I thought when HSL reached 20% then HSL members would elected a Director to the Hibs board not HSL Directors appoint one of their own fellow Directors.

Lucky

The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


HSL

[Hibs4185]

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Not sure what you mean by that?

Are you saying that Hibs fans HAVE TO donate more to HSL?? Good luck with that!!

More realistically we have to accept that Hearts fans continue to donate more than we can ever hope to achieve.

No point in comparing the two as been been mentioned since the whole thing was launched.

Hearts fans had no option than to contribute to FOH as their club would have been liquidated. It was quite clear at the time that the only realistic prospect was Budge and she wanted repaid. Ian Murray MP actually says he went home one night and cried as he thought the club was gone.

I am sure if we ever found ourselves in such a situation that every supprrrer would donate every spare penny they could.

We don’t have that desperation and that’s why fans aren’t jumping on the bandwagon as much.

[basehibby]

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In just over a year and a half the FOH will have completed the purchase of their Club. At that point they will have about £1.4m pa available to put at their Managers disposal. We therefore have a year and a half to decide if we want to leave our Manager behind.


HSL

That of course assumes that they don't ***** it all on busloads of journeymen in the meantime.

[Hibeewilly]

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Not sure what you mean by that?

Are you saying that Hibs fans HAVE TO donate more to HSL?? Good luck with that!!

More realistically we have to accept that Hearts fans continue to donate more than we can ever hope to achieve.

No point in comparing the two as been been mentioned since the whole thing was launched.

Nobody has to donate anything WTC. My understanding of the HSL approach is that if fans can afford to donate a small amount per month then great but don't if money is tight. I didn't understand the concept fully until yesterday but now I'm happy to join and help the playing budget with a small contribution each month.

[BoomtownHibees]

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ZERO excuse for Hibees not to contribute to HSL though

That’s nonsense. There are multiple reasons why fans can’t/won’t donate and this type of garbage will do nothing to encourage them to do so

[WhileTheChief..]

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Nobody has to donate anything WTC. My understanding of the HSL approach is that if fans can afford to donate a small amount per month then great but don't if money is tight. I didn't understand the concept fully until yesterday but now I'm happy to join and help the playing budget with a small contribution each month.

I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.

[basehibby]

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that’s nonsense. There are multiple reasons why fans can’t/won’t donate and this type of garbage will do nothing to encourage them to do so

zero excuse

[BoomtownHibees]

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zero excuse

Bollocks

[WhileTheChief..]

Some of us don’t want fan ownership.

That’s a reason I don’t contribute, not an excuse.

There are 12000+ ST holders who don’t contribute. Why do you think that is?

[Hibeewilly]

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I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.

Put simply.....if Hearts fans keep contributing to a similar level once their debt is paid off (I think that was explained by Official HSL earlier in the thread) they will have a substantial player/football budget at that point. The way I see it is that if HSL continues to increase donations/subscriptions we can get closer to them in that respect.

[basehibby]

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Some of us don’t want fan ownership.

That’s a reason I don’t contribute, not an excuse.

There are 12000+ ST holders who don’t contribute. Why do you think that is?

Cos they're too tight??? Can't work a computer?? Don't want to impinge on their pie budget?

Either way it seems they will be all too happy to see the Yams sail ahead of us in terms of purchasing power - sad.

[Bostonhibby]

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I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.

This is pretty much where I am. I keep hearing about this gap and it's cause and effect. There was meant to be a significant and proportionate gap when Vlad was around and that ended well.

What might the good doctor want or need to do with their money next?

How does one define how far ahead the much diverted capital they have (commendably) raised since putting themselves into administration has actually put them?



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[A Hi-Bee]

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I thought when HSL reached 20% then HSL members would elected a Director to the Hibs board not HSL Directors appoint one of their own fellow Directors.

Also thought the same, it has to be the members that vote in my humble.

That aside we need to be aware that the yam fuds will be way ahead of us in the cash stakes if we as supporters let them, we are the only ones who can get more cash into the clubs player budget.

GGTTH

[Bostonhibby]

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Also thought the same, it has to be the members that vote in my humble.

That aside we need to be aware that the yam fuds will be way ahead of us in the cash stakes if we as supporters let them, we are the only ones who can get more cash into the clubs player budget.

GGTTH

Same here. All members were to have an equal status so maybe we should be asked how we want to do it when the time comes, or at the very least be given the opportunity to vote for or against any HSL nominations?

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[BSEJVT]

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I get the concept and have done since the beginning.

What I don’t get is your assertion that we need to close the gap with what Hearts fans are raising.

Why? And what happens if we don’t?

We will never get to the point that we are donating as much as them. If that means that they pull ahead of us financially, and ultimately on the pitch, then so be it.

What our club has to continue doing is spending the money we do have wisely. Thankfully Lennon and co know what they’re doing.

We can more than make up for what Hearts fans raise by getting further in the cups and finishing higher in the league. That will generate us far more money than than HSL ever will.

I am sorry to say this but that entire post is tooth fairy stuff.

There is a clear long term correlation between the amount a football club has to spend on players and their relative success on the pitch.

In the short term that can be overcome by astute management v crap management and any other number of factors, but in the long term it cannot as these temporary blips wash through. This may be what we have seen over the last 5 years and its blinded folk like you to the reality of the situation we will one day face.

When that all even out your prize money will disappear like snow of a dyke and we will fall further and further behind.

I absolutely respect your sentiment in a later post that fan ownership isn't for you and that is why you don't contribute to HSL but anything else in your above post is wishful thinking in the extreme and more than that utterly selfish.

You don't want fan ownership, truth be told after 25.1% has been achieved I am not that keen on buying more shares either.

But because you don't fancy fan ownership you put out a line that if we all thought that way there would be not be any point in Hibs continuing.

If the board, management and players thought that way we should shut the doors now

For so long as I have breath in me I will never ever ever submit to the idea that we cannot match them financially and that consequently we should be content to live in their shadow on the pitch.

It is defeatist **** and why someone would glibly accept such a fate totally baffles me.

They have a huge start on us for a number of well documented and understood reasons, but even if its 50 years from now when all those folk that donated to FOH in their hour of need are dead and gone, we will match and overtake them.

Every journey starts with a first step, in recent months HSL have taken that first step by upping their game substantially.

It is up to every Hibs supporter who can afford to and wants to do so to go on that journey with them

[Hibeewilly]

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I am sorry to say this but that entire post is tooth fairy stuff.

There is a clear long term correlation between the amount a football club has to spend on players and their relative success on the pitch.

In the short term that can be overcome by astute management v crap management and any other number of factors, but in the long term it cannot as these temporary blips wash through. This may be what we have seen over the last 5 years and its blinded folk like you to the reality of the situation we will one day face.

When that all even out your prize money will disappear like snow of a dyke and we will fall further and further behind.

I absolutely respect your sentiment in a later post that fan ownership isn't for you and that is why you don't contribute to HSL but anything else in your above post is wishful thinking in the extreme and more than that utterly selfish.

You don't want fan ownership, truth be told after 25.1% has been achieved I am not that keen on buying more shares either.

But because you don't fancy fan ownership you put out a line that if we all thought that way there would be not be any point in Hibs continuing.

If the board, management and players thought that way we should shut the doors now

For so long as I have breath in me I will never ever ever submit to the idea that we cannot match them financially and that consequently we should be content to live in their shadow on the pitch.

It is defeatist **** and why someone would glibly accept such a fate totally baffles me.

They have a huge start on us for a number of well documented and understood reasons, but even if its 50 years from now when all those folk that donated to FOH in their hour of need are dead and gone, we will match and overtake them.

Every journey starts with a first step, in recent months HSL have taken that first step by upping their game substantially.

It is up to every Hibs supporter who can afford to and wants to do so to go on that journey with them

Good post

[Beefster]

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Lucky

The HSL articles were silent on this particular matter and therefore the HSL Board agreed that some basic principles should supplement the Articles. We thought it best that our Hibs Board appointee would benefit from previously acting on the HSL Board first. Please remember that HSL Directors must first be elected by our Members so they are not the Directors of the HSL Directors they are Members' Directors.

Likewise we thought it best that future Chairman should also have gone through the Members election process. We didn't think it would be appropriate for any of these roles to avoid the election process of our Members.


HSL

That makes the website saying that “supporters are the owners of HSL” and “20% stake – we can elect a Board member to Hibernian Football Club” seem a bit misleading.

How do HSL members differentiate between when “we” on the website means all the members and when it just means the HSL board? What happened to “one member, one vote”?

[CropleyWasGod]

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That makes the website saying that “supporters are the owners of HSL” and “20% stake – we can elect a Board member to Hibernian Football Club” seem a bit misleading.

How do HSL members differentiate between when “we” on the website means all the members and when it just means the HSL board? What happened to “one member, one vote”?

The HSL members have the right to get rid of the current Board if they don't like them, and replace them with those they do.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yeah this is where we totally disagree.

It is not uo to the fans to raise enough cash for the club to be competitive, that’s down to the club itself.

You just have to read some of the threads on here complaining about the price of a Pie and Pint, the ticket prices for the derby or , well anything at all really.

Collectively we moan about the price of everything but at the same time some of you want us to donate cash to the same cause!

Why are we holding Hearts up as an example of how to grow financially?! Let them do their thing and we’ll do ours.

We’ll be fine. It’s not tooth fairy stuff at all.

[Skol]

I believe that as things stand I pay enough for my football and I am not prepared to pay an additional premium for it. If the club were to raise ST prices by say an equivalent of £10 per month, would they still sell the season tickets - I doubt it

I realise that Hearts fans had to pay extra to keep their club alive and credit to them. It also looks like they will continue to do so once they have hit their targets at which point they will have a financial advantage. If they want to pay more for that then thats their call

I am also not convinced about fan ownership as you could get some real incompetents in charge !

[Dancehibs]

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No, I think that is what we said in point 4.


HSL

No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled

[Pretty Boy]

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No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled

Is it the case we need clarity on what the football budget actually means?

I know there was a debate recently when it was suggested some money, it may even have been HSL money, may go towards a sport psychologist. Personally that doesn't bother me because if NL feels that is a better use of his budget than a squad player or whatever I'll believe him.

My understanding is the board will approve a budget at the start of the year and within that will be the football budget and that covers everything directly related to the playing side of the busines, the HSL money will be incorporated into that. So ultimately if that money is used for whatever reason NL, LD, George Craig et al see fit then it's being used in the correct way. By that I mean if we have a budget of £1M with £500K from ST sales etc and £500K from HSL does it matter which half the money for a piece of gym equipment comes from and which half a new striker? It all adds up to the same and the overall budget would be less (more) if whatever contributory part drops (rises).

It's simlar to hibs.net. Our PM payments and other revenue all go into one pot. In theory the server is kept switched on by the PM money but it isn't always that money directly that pays for it. However if the PM money stopped we'd have to dip into other money for that which means less for competitions, shirt sponsorships, donations to Hibs and so on. So ultimately whilst it may not be the literal PM money that pays the bill it increases the overall budget and gives us more to play with.

[Ged]

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No you did not. Please look again. You continually use mix messages. The money doesn’t go directly to Lennons budget. It’s important fans are not indirectly misled

It's pretty clear that the budget goes to the football department. If you want to muddy the waters that's up to you.

[04Sauzee]

This might sound daft but I'm going to run with it.

Would HSL be allowed to do a bucket collection at every home game?

Average crowds of 16k if 50% of them chucked in £1 then over 18 games we have got £144k

Obviously the above is just simple maths and only people who support fan ownership would contribute

Sounds to simple so there is probably a reason why this isn't allowed.

[A Hi-Bee]

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The HSL members have the right to get rid of the current Board if they don't like them, and replace them with those they do.

That dont change the fact that in my humble opinion it should be one member one vote. Not the elected board voting one of their own onto the board of our football club. That in my book is not the true way of democracy.