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  1. #121
    Coaching Staff MWHIBBIES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    I don't blame the players bud. There just isn't a big enough pool of good ones and the ones that have a wee bit quality aren't always good enough either.

    No matter how they are set-up or how optimistically we approach games the quality, both individually and as a pool to select from, doesn't exist. Not the players fault.

    Look at Soutar last night, a supposed "decent prospect" who is expected to hoof both ball and player for his club but completely lacking the nous and nuance to play in last nights game.
    The point is we don't actually know if these players are good enough because they're being played all over, never consistently, with the wrong instructions, wrong formation.

    A better manager could get more from them. You can't really tell me every team at the world cup or Euros had better players than Scotland? No chance. Albania? Northern Ireland? Hungary? All qualified in 2016. Scotland had hopeless management who couldn't get most from the players so they didn't. That's what it boils down to.

    Everyone thought Hibs had rubbish players for years. We actually had rubbish managers and coaching staff. I remember outrage on here when Stubbs was signing coaches instead of players in his first season. Reality is that exactly how it should be. Players come and go. Proper coaching set ups last year's.


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  3. #122
    Sad to read all the negative comments about AM. He probably wouldnít have been my first choice for the job but he did build arguably the second best Hibs team Iíve seen in over 50 years and was in charge for two of my favourite games, the Millennium derby and the 6-2 game. He also got us to the first Scottish Cup final in over 20 years and but for a very good Celtic team we could have won it. After years of derby misery under ALex Miller, his record against Hearts was very good.
    Iíve met him a couple of times and found him to be very positive about Hibs.

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    I don't blame the players bud. There just isn't a big enough pool of good ones and the ones that have a wee bit quality aren't always good enough either.

    No matter how they are set-up or how optimistically we approach games the quality, both individually and as a pool to select from, doesn't exist. Not the players fault.

    Look at Soutar last night, a supposed "decent prospect" who is expected to hoof both ball and player for his club but completely lacking the nous and nuance to play in last nights game.
    We must surely have access to a bigger pool of decent players than Israel

  5. #124
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatHead View Post
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    The biggest problem with Scottish football is it revolves around two clubs.
    I don't think that's the cause of our failings at national level.

    It's certainly bad in Scotland, but other countries aren't exactly overflowing with their variety of league champions.

    It was 1984/85 when a team other than Celtc or Rangers won the Scottish league. Since then Celtc have won it 16 times and Rangers 17 and Aberdeen once, obviously.

    In the same time period, Barcelona and Real Madrid have won 30 of the available 34 league titles.

    In Portugal Benfica or Porto have won it 32 times.

    Even in Germany, Bayern Munich and Dortmund have won the league 26 times out of the last 34, with 2 clubs winning it once and 2 twice.

    In England, 10 different clubs have won the title in that time with only Manchester United in double figures (13). No other team has won more than 5 times. (I wonder if the variety of winners one of the reasons people think it's the best league in the world.)

    So, England have a greater diversity of success, but their national side still fails.

    Other countries, with a similar duopoly to Scotland, have won the WC and the Euros.
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 12-10-2018 at 10:43 AM.
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  6. #125
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hart RIP View Post
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    He also got us to the first Scottish Cup final in over 20 years and but for a very good Celtic team we could have won it. .
    We could argue about sacking Latapy before the final ...
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  7. #126
    @hibs.net private member Ringothedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hart RIP View Post
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    Sad to read all the negative comments about AM. He probably wouldnít have been my first choice for the job but he did build arguably the second best Hibs team Iíve seen in over 50 years and was in charge for two of my favourite games, the Millennium derby and the 6-2 game. He also got us to the first Scottish Cup final in over 20 years and but for a very good Celtic team we could have won it. After years of derby misery under ALex Miller, his record against Hearts was very good.
    Iíve met him a couple of times and found him to be very positive about Hibs.
    His coaching worked nearly 20 years ago and is now thoroughly outdated. He has done nothing of note for years and is a failure. The sooner he moves on the better for our national team

  8. #127
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    give it to Gemmil

  9. #128
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    The point is we don't actually know if these players are good enough because they're being played all over, never consistently, with the wrong instructions, wrong formation.

    A better manager could get more from them. You can't really tell me every team at the world cup or Euros had better players than Scotland? No chance. Albania? Northern Ireland? Hungary? All qualified in 2016. Scotland had hopeless management who couldn't get most from the players so they didn't. That's what it boils down to.

    Everyone thought Hibs had rubbish players for years. We actually had rubbish managers and coaching staff. I remember outrage on here when Stubbs was signing coaches instead of players in his first season. Reality is that exactly how it should be. Players come and go. Proper coaching set ups last year's.
    I dunno, mate. We've been through manager after manager over the last 30 years with little change.

    I remember reading a stat a few years back which said in 1985 there c. 27,000 kids associated with school and boys club football. By 1995 that was down to c. 7,000. Smaller pool to select from means less quality.

    I don't think there is any quick fix to bringing success to the Scotland team, change the manager, talk the game up, praise the players be optimistic - imho all that can be done (some of it has in patches) but the reslut is the same. We look rubbish because we are, having the Emperor Ming as manager with the pain of death for failure sin't going to help. If being optimistic and "believing" it can be done how come England didn't win the WC?

    We took decades to become this inept and it'll take years to fix. The problem is producing players not bumming up the ones we have or having another manager.

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    We could argue about sacking Latapy before the final ...
    Did he sack him? Or just off-load to Rangers knowing he'd catch up with him again.

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I don't think that's the cause of our failings at national level.

    It's certainly bad in Scotland, but other countries aren't exactly overflowing with their variety of league champions.

    It was 1984/85 when a team other than Celtc or Rangers won the Scottish league. Since then Celtc have won it 16 times and Rangers 17 and Aberdeen once, obviously.

    In the same time period, Barcelona and Real Madrid have won 30 of the available 34 league titles.

    In Portugal Benfica or Porto have won it 32 times.

    Even in Germany, Bayern Munich and Dortmund have won the league 26 times out of the last 34, with 2 clubs winning it once and 2 twice.

    In England, 10 different clubs have won the title in that time with only Manchester United in double figures (13). No other team has won more than 5 times. (I wonder if the variety of winners one of the reasons people think it's the best league in the world.)

    So, England have a greater diversity of success, but their national side still fails.

    Other countries, with a similar duopoly to Scotland, have won the WC and the Euros.
    I hear what you say however the whole structure of our game is organised around these 2 clubs. Everyone falls in line behind them.

    Until the SFA re-structure the game, instal an inspirational CEO with power and appoint a decent international manager, the game will struggle. A successful international team would inspire the game from top down.

    Look at our club, we had a fantastic infrastructure but no team on the pitch. Look at the difference now with the flagship working properly.

  12. #131
    Best to find an old unemployable ex Hun who is enjoying retirement and has no interest in the game and get a Daily Record campaign to have him installed as Ďthe peopleís choice.í Get a testimony from a couple of ex OF players (each arsecheek represented) to testify to his Ďpassioní for Ďhis countryí. McCoist has to be next up. Letís do exactly the same - itíll be different this time, honest.

    I really wish Scotland had no international team at all. Itís the most boring distraction ever.

  13. #132
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    We must surely have access to a bigger pool of decent players than Israel
    One off game with Israel at home and showing far more appetite and cohesion than us?

    "Smaller/inferior" teams beat "bigger/superior" teams all the time. Winning is habitual - as is losing.

  14. #133
    Coaching Staff MWHIBBIES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    I dunno, mate. We've been through manager after manager over the last 30 years with little change.

    I remember reading a stat a few years back which said in 1985 there c. 27,000 kids associated with school and boys club football. By 1995 that was down to c. 7,000. Smaller pool to select from means less quality.

    I don't think there is any quick fix to bringing success to the Scotland team, change the manager, talk the game up, praise the players be optimistic - imho all that can be done (some of it has in patches) but the reslut is the same. We look rubbish because we are, having the Emperor Ming as manager with the pain of death for failure sin't going to help. If being optimistic and "believing" it can be done how come England didn't win the WC?

    We took decades to become this inept and it'll take years to fix. The problem is producing players not bumming up the ones we have or having another manager.
    Many different managers but all really just the same manager. McLeish, Smith, Stachen, Burley, Levein are all just the same person. Scottish, cheap, boring, unemployed, old fashioned.

    None of them were at all successful outside of Scotland. Scotland need a long term, exciting appointment. A young fresh face with ideas and ambition. A sexy appointment. And a proper coaching staff to support him and help him learn and move the whole thing forward.

  15. #134
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Many different managers but all really just the same manager. McLeish, Smith, Stachen, Burley, Levein are all just the same person. Scottish, cheap, boring, unemployed, old fashioned.

    None of them were at all successful outside of Scotland. Scotland need a long term, exciting appointment. A young fresh face with ideas and ambition. A sexy appointment. And a proper coaching staff to support him and help him learn and move the whole thing forward.

    Good luck with that, I hope it happens but I feel results will be the same.

  16. #135
    First Team Regular Renfrew_Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SallyCinnamon View Post
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    It's quite sad that most people i know couldn't care less about the national team. It's a hinderance that gets in the way of and disrupts domestic football. I'm old enough to remember Euro 96 and France 98 and it was great. Gripped the whole nation. Now, like last night, if Scotland were on TV i'd probably not watch it. It used to be the pinnacle. I don't know what it is. Too many international games/breaks? Constant failure to qualify for anything? Players who are unknown to a lot of people unless they follow English football? who knows but something is seriously wrong. I'd love to get he passion for the national team back. I'm even starting to find folk getting dressed up in kilts and football tops a bit cringy. Never thought i'd say it but even Berti Vogts team was far better than this lot.
    I can just about remember Portugal being totally apathetic towards their national team, a long painful decline since the days of Eusebio. They just couldn't care less and attendances were pitiful.
    Then came along Figo, some others and then obviously Ronaldo. Overtime results picked up the rankings improved and hosting Euro 2004 helped massively.
    Now the whole nation is engaged with their national team and the perception from those outside of Portugal has totally changed.
    There are many other examples of this, Spain had a similar situation and in a wider sporting context, just look at Australia.
    They used to be total also rans in most sports, were viewed as sporting minnows, but slowly through the 1980s & 1990s they instigated an amazing program through their school system that altered the global perception of Aussies as beer swigging cavemen to being fit, healthy and a major force in world sport.
    I think we need a revolution in education, probably not possible at the moment due to economic factors.

  17. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Many different managers but all really just the same manager. McLeish, Smith, Stachen, Burley, Levein are all just the same person. Scottish, cheap, boring, unemployed, old fashioned.

    None of them were at all successful outside of Scotland. Scotland need a long term, exciting appointment. A young fresh face with ideas and ambition. A sexy appointment. And a proper coaching staff to support him and help him learn and move the whole thing forward.
    Ian Cathro

  18. #137
    Coaching Staff MWHIBBIES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    Ian Cathro
    I think he would be good as a coach. Obviously he was dreadful as Hearts boss but he is very well respected as a coach. He is too socially inept and void of charisma to ever manage even a kids team.

  19. #138
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Many different managers but all really just the same manager. McLeish, Smith, Stachen, Burley, Levein are all just the same person. Scottish, cheap, boring, unemployed, old fashioned.

    None of them were at all successful outside of Scotland. Scotland need a long term, exciting appointment. A young fresh face with ideas and ambition. A sexy appointment. And a proper coaching staff to support him and help him learn and move the whole thing forward.
    Good post.

    IMO the most appealing attribute Mcleish had prior to being appointed was the fact he was unemployed. At the time of his appointment we had just lost our CEO so i hoped, and still do hope, he was a stop gap appointment until we get some sort of longer term vision and plan in place.

    Who that is i don't necessarily know but i don't think they need to be a successful club manager, it's a very different job to club management so there's different attributes needed. I think an ex-player who has recently retired would know how to get the best out of their players. Ryan Giggs has made a decent start at Wales and whilst i think his world cup campaign was overrated, at least Gareth Southgate seems to have a plan that the players are buying into.

    If we go down the foreign route it wouldn't have to be a big name, in fact it's probably better if it wasn't someone who had a glittering playing career. There has to be someone out there though that's smart and looking for a bigger job than just getting into club management where he'll get 6 months to prove himself if he's lucky.

    Wee bit imagination needed IMO.

  20. #139
    @hibs.net private member silverhibee's Avatar
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    Has GJP gave a interview since the game last night ?

  21. #140
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverhibee View Post
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    Has GJP gave a interview since the game last night ?
    Yes, i've not heard it (what's the point really?) but i saw on twitter he was getting slated as he said he was about to sub Souttar for Mckenna when he got sent off.

    Mckenna came on at half time though so he'd have struggled to make that sub!

    I know people posting on twitter isn't always the most accurate so apologies to the GJP if that was incorrect or taken out of context!

  22. #141
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    Surely a 100 % fit Paul Hanlon is better than Soapy Soutar?

    His sending off was just basic housekeeping at that level. You just donít do it!

    Or have I just got my green tinted glasses on?

    PS

    I would definately play a 100% Dazza before Soapy but I have to admit he is getting on

  23. #142
    Coaching Staff MWHIBBIES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Good post.

    IMO the most appealing attribute Mcleish had prior to being appointed was the fact he was unemployed. At the time of his appointment we had just lost our CEO so i hoped, and still do hope, he was a stop gap appointment until we get some sort of longer term vision and plan in place.

    Who that is i don't necessarily know but i don't think they need to be a successful club manager, it's a very different job to club management so there's different attributes needed. I think an ex-player who has recently retired would know how to get the best out of their players. Ryan Giggs has made a decent start at Wales and whilst i think his world cup campaign was overrated, at least Gareth Southgate seems to have a plan that the players are buying into.

    If we go down the foreign route it wouldn't have to be a big name, in fact it's probably better if it wasn't someone who had a glittering playing career. There has to be someone out there though that's smart and looking for a bigger job than just getting into club management where he'll get 6 months to prove himself if he's lucky.

    Wee bit imagination needed IMO.
    Agree with all of this. Even if Southgate is a tad overrated he was appointed in the right way. Young, ambitious, well spoken guy with a bit of personality. Had the u21s before, players knew him, bought into his ideas. McLeish is so lazy, such a boring lazy choice. No imagination as you say.

    Scotland is the place where all these new coaches come to get their badges. Can't be that difficult to keep track of a few of the better ones, see if they'd be interested in being paired with a few experienced coaches behind the scenes ( Like Iceland did, had 2 managers, one young and one old to groom him to go solo) and taking over a long term project as manager. To be honest, anything except the usual boring lazy appointment would appeal to me and many others.

  24. #143
    Coaching Staff MWHIBBIES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS View Post
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    Surely a 100 % fit Paul Hanlon is better than Soapy Soutar?

    His sending off was just basic housekeeping at that level. You just donít do it!

    Or have I just got my green tinted glasses on?

    PS

    I would definately play a 100% Dazza before Soapy but I have to admit he is getting on
    McGregor can't pass the ball, wouldn't work at international level. Can't play without Efe/Hanlon next to him.

    Hanlon for sure should be in there, class player.

  25. #144
    Coaching Staff jgl07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    We could argue about sacking Latapy before the final ...
    My recollections are that Latapy went AWOL towards the end of the season?

  26. #145
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    The national team will never improve while our club sides employ managers with the mind set of the 70ís. Scotland is full of them. Look at some of our supposed bigger clubs. Guys like McInness, Robinson, Levein all base their tactics around brute force. Everything is in the air. At least Houston is gone. Thatís a start but the rest need to go or it will just go on and on.

  27. #146
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl07 View Post
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    My recollections are that Latapy went AWOL towards the end of the season?
    night on the booze wi Dwight wasnt it?

    Anyway, back to McLeish - i genuinely think he isn't all there anymore. I find myself always cringing when hes on telly

  28. #147
    First Team Regular Chic Murray's Avatar
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    He should never have been allowed back after shafting the national team the last time he was the boss. Likewise, the fact that Uncle Walter was also in the frame, when he had done exactly the same thing, tells us a lot about what is important at Park Gardens.

  29. #148
    Coaching Staff MWHIBBIES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by West lower View Post
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    The national team will never improve while our club sides employ managers with the mind set of the 70ís. Scotland is full of them. Look at some of our supposed bigger clubs. Guys like McInness, Robinson, Levein all base their tactics around brute force. Everything is in the air. At least Houston is gone. Thatís a start but the rest need to go or it will just go on and on.
    Doesn't work like that. National league doesn't directly relate, plenty of average leagues with very good national sides.

    The national team should set the example.

  30. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Many different managers but all really just the same manager. McLeish, Smith, Stachen, Burley, Levein are all just the same person. Scottish, cheap, boring, unemployed, old fashioned.

    None of them were at all successful outside of Scotland. Scotland need a long term, exciting appointment. A young fresh face with ideas and ambition. A sexy appointment. And a proper coaching staff to support him and help him learn and move the whole thing forward.
    This x 100.

  31. #150
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl07 View Post
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    My recollections are that Latapy went AWOL towards the end of the season?
    He missed training cos of a sesh with Dwight Yorke.

    McLeish sacked him because of it.
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