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View Poll Results: Brexit voting.

Voters
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  • Voted remain, still remain.

    74 91.36%
  • Voted remain, now leave.

    1 1.23%
  • Voted leave, now remain.

    2 2.47%
  • Voted leave, still leave.

    4 4.94%
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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    For working age (16 - 64) the percentages are roughly as follows:

    Employed 75%
    Unemployed 4%
    Economically inactive 21%
    What does economically inactive mean? Does that include students (although most tend to have part time jobs from my experience) and those not fit enough to work?
    Mon the Hibs.


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    What does economically inactive mean? Does that include students (although most tend to have part time jobs from my experience) and those not fit enough to work?
    Those that don't meet the latest unemployment criteria, housewives, disabled, etc.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killiehibbie View Post
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    Those that don't meet the latest unemployment criteria, housewives, disabled, etc.
    Thanks.

    Basically those that are, or should be, actively seeking employment but don't have any.
    Mon the Hibs.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Thanks.

    Basically those that are, or should be, actively seeking employment but don't have any.
    It’s a pretty wide church I think but no it’s doesn’t include those seeking work that don’t have a job...that’s the unemployed figure.

    There is a thousand reasons (and some may indeed be classed as ‘should be looking to work’) but it is someone of working age that doesn’t work and is not currently actively seeking work be that because they look after the kids, are too sick to work, studying, don’t need to work because they have a trust fund etc.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    It’s a pretty wide church I think but no it’s doesn’t include those seeking work that don’t have a job...that’s the unemployed figure.

    There is a thousand reasons (and some may indeed be classed as ‘should be looking to work’) but it is someone of working age that doesn’t work and is not currently actively seeking work be that because they look after the kids, are too sick to work, studying, don’t need to work because they have a trust fund etc.
    Sorry, I've confused things. My second line that you've quoted was me stating what the unemployment figure (4%) meant!

    Thanks for the detail though.

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    I voted remain and am still of the opinion that we should remain.

    My biggest concern is that we have a Government who are not only making it up as they go along, but seem wholly incompetent with regards to steering the country through Brexit.

    When you hear Theresa May, I don't even think she has the language capacity to understand what it's all about - she is virtually incoherent and can't answer simple questions. She's like a rabbit in the headlights, when the rabbit's been out on the sauce all day and doesn't know if it's going home or heading for a stew.

    No deal looks increasingly likely, IMHO - the closer the exit date gets, the stronger the EU's negotiation hand is. This 'no deal is better than a bad deal' is nothing but hyperbole, it's a slogan that means nothing. No deal is a terrible situation, and to pretend that it's better than having something arranged is lunacy.

    Under normal circumstances, I'd be amazed that the people responsible for the country hadn't already put the brakes on the whole thing and at least offered the second referendum, if not canned the whole thing. Unfortunately, we're governed by a bunch of Etonian ****ers who care for their own interests and not a lot else, and so it's not amazing that we're getting dragged down with them, it's completely expected.
    Is there any indication yet of what the short term impact of no deal Brexit will be?

    I've heard stories about stockpiling medicine, supermarkets running out of food, the army being drafted on to the streets to help with transportation of certain goods and other fairly worrying possibilities. I'm guessing that these are scare stories that have been greatly exaggerated?

  8. #37
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Is there any indication yet of what the short term impact of no deal Brexit will be?

    I've heard stories about stockpiling medicine, supermarkets running out of food, the army being drafted on to the streets to help with transportation of certain goods and other fairly worrying possibilities. I'm guessing that these are scare stories that have been greatly exaggerated?
    I'm not sure - this is the problem when politicians refuse to give a straight answer to questions. I've not seen anything to say what will happen in the event of no deal being reached. I would presume that we would be treated the same as other non-EU countries looking to trade with the EU, but I don't know how trade terms have been reached with these countries (i.e. do they have an agreement each or a blanket agreement that covers trade across the non-EU countries?).

    I would guess that without proper import/export agreements and rules then there is potential for a lot of things that rely on that to come to a bit of a standstill, or they might have something in place to track what's leaving and coming in and to try and deal with it retrospectively.

    I think airports and ferry terminals, where passport control exists just now, will have to be changed - currently we can go relatively quickly through the EU line, whereas now we'll need to wait in a non-EU line. Might make things quicker coming back into the country mind, if we've got a UK queue to ourselves.

    There are loads of things to be considered, I don't know if it's a cliff-edge exit where one day we're in and all rules apply, and the next we're out and on our own. I don't think the latter would suit anyone but we've had a couple of years to sort it out and the Government still don't seem to have a clue on how to effectively get us moving post-Brexit.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Is there any indication yet of what the short term impact of no deal Brexit will be?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...u-with-no-deal.

    “After March 2019 if there’s no deal

    If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no agreement in place, UK and EU licensed airlines would lose the automatic right to operate air services between the UK and the EU without seeking advance permission. This would mean that airlines operating between the UK and the EU would need to seek individual permissions to operate. EU-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate wholly within the UK (for example from Heathrow to Edinburgh) and UK-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate intra-EU air services (for example from Milan to Paris).”


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  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member Jack Hackett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Is there any indication yet of what the short term impact of no deal Brexit will be?

    I've heard stories about stockpiling medicine, supermarkets running out of food, the army being drafted on to the streets to help with transportation of certain goods and other fairly worrying possibilities. I'm guessing that these are scare stories that have been greatly exaggerated?
    I have absolutely no doubt that there will be chaos. No-one is prepared for what could happen, as the tories have been too busy arguing amongst themselves about what they want to happen. We are where we are because of ignorance... there's no arguing that a very large percentage of the leavers are totally ignorant of, not to mention incapable of understanding, the consequences of their 'victory'. Their 'Will of the people' mantra is becoming more desperate every time the question of another ref is raised.

    I didn't actually vote as I was away on holiday. Like many others, I felt safe that the vote was won, and didn't bother giving my proxy to someone to vote on my behalf. I feel strongly that another referendum would have a much higher turnout... and a much different result.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hackett View Post
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    I have absolutely no doubt that there will be chaos. No-one is prepared for what could happen, as the tories have been too busy arguing amongst themselves about what they want to happen. We are where we are because of ignorance... there's no arguing that a very large percentage of the leavers are totally ignorant of, not to mention incapable of understanding, the consequences of their 'victory'. Their 'Will of the people' mantra is becoming more desperate every time the question of another ref is raised.

    I didn't actually vote as I was away on holiday. Like many others, I felt safe that the vote was won, and didn't bother giving my proxy to someone to vote on my behalf. I feel strongly that another referendum would have a much higher turnout... and a much different result.
    Same could be said about that other referendum. But just like that other referendum, they will down right refuse to allow people to change their minds. Because lets face it, this is the exact outcome the Conservative Party wanted. They don't care if the majority don't want it.

  12. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...u-with-no-deal.

    “After March 2019 if there’s no deal

    If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no agreement in place, UK and EU licensed airlines would lose the automatic right to operate air services between the UK and the EU without seeking advance permission. This would mean that airlines operating between the UK and the EU would need to seek individual permissions to operate. EU-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate wholly within the UK (for example from Heathrow to Edinburgh) and UK-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate intra-EU air services (for example from Milan to Paris).”


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    Time to get that sorted then I hope.

  13. #42
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Anyone going to the Poeple Vote rally on 20th Oct?

  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    Same could be said about that other referendum. But just like that other referendum, they will down right refuse to allow people to change their minds. Because lets face it, this is the exact outcome the Conservative Party wanted. They don't care if the majority don't want it.
    The difference between the Indy Ref and Brexit is that the winners knew exactly what they were voting for and have got just that.

    The Leave voters had so many different visions of what they wanted. The chances of at least some of them saying " you know what, if that's what we are actually going to get, then I'd rather stay in" are very high.

    Therefore, a second vote is the only way to sort it.

  15. #44
    I was and am still strongly Remain/Yes. However, I see the overriding priority as reversing Brexit or at least making it as soft as possible for the whole UK. For several reasons:

    1. I believe it's fundamentally the best thing for England/Wales/NI as well as us to be in the single market/CU.
    2. Economically, there is some long term opportunity for an EU member iScotland to compete favourably against a Brexit UK for investment/jobs. However, especially in the short term, it makes the transition to independence much scarier to be economically divorced from England as well as politically. Get the whole UK back to sanity and then reappraise the case for independence from there.
    3. Politically I'm not altogether convinced by the poll boost Yes gets from Brexit. If you delve into the numbers, it looks like what actually happens is that a chunk of voters move from No to DK. Thus the excluding DKs figures look like Yes had a boost but actually it's just that No has taken a hit. I'm not sure that when push came to shove, those DKs won't slide back towards No again.
    4. The UK is unravelling anyway. Tam Dalyell's "motorway with no exits" was bang on the money and the Brexit shenanigans have given things another little kick in the right direction even if they ultimately come to nothing. I'd rather wait a few years and take a smoother path.

    Having said all that, if a hard Brexit does go ahead, I think it's absolutely imperative for the long term that Scotland gets TFO of the UK and back into the EU. Being the neglected backwater region of a Brexit Britain run by Tory idiots (and let's face it, that's what we'll get for the majority of the foreseeable) gives me the heeby jeebies. Not a smart strategy at all. It would be painful but necessary if we want Scotland to be anything for the future.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I was and am still strongly Remain/Yes. However, I see the overriding priority as reversing Brexit or at least making it as soft as possible for the whole UK. For several reasons:

    1. I believe it's fundamentally the best thing for England/Wales/NI as well as us to be in the single market/CU.
    2. Economically, there is some long term opportunity for an EU member iScotland to compete favourably against a Brexit UK for investment/jobs. However, especially in the short term, it makes the transition to independence much scarier to be economically divorced from England as well as politically. Get the whole UK back to sanity and then reappraise the case for independence from there.
    3. Politically I'm not altogether convinced by the poll boost Yes gets from Brexit. If you delve into the numbers, it looks like what actually happens is that a chunk of voters move from No to DK. Thus the excluding DKs figures look like Yes had a boost but actually it's just that No has taken a hit. I'm not sure that when push came to shove, those DKs won't slide back towards No again.
    4. The UK is unravelling anyway. Tam Dalyell's "motorway with no exits" was bang on the money and the Brexit shenanigans have given things another little kick in the right direction even if they ultimately come to nothing. I'd rather wait a few years and take a smoother path.

    Having said all that, if a hard Brexit does go ahead, I think it's absolutely imperative for the long term that Scotland gets TFO of the UK and back into the EU. Being the neglected backwater region of a Brexit Britain run by Tory idiots (and let's face it, that's what we'll get for the majority of the foreseeable) gives me the heeby jeebies. Not a smart strategy at all. It would be painful but necessary if we want Scotland to be anything for the future.
    I like your posts JMS, and i find this one hard to disagree with.

  17. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I like your posts JMS, and i find this one hard to disagree with.
    Why, thank you.

  18. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I was and am still strongly Remain/Yes. However, I see the overriding priority as reversing Brexit or at least making it as soft as possible for the whole UK. For several reasons:

    1. I believe it's fundamentally the best thing for England/Wales/NI as well as us to be in the single market/CU.
    2. Economically, there is some long term opportunity for an EU member iScotland to compete favourably against a Brexit UK for investment/jobs. However, especially in the short term, it makes the transition to independence much scarier to be economically divorced from England as well as politically. Get the whole UK back to sanity and then reappraise the case for independence from there.
    3. Politically I'm not altogether convinced by the poll boost Yes gets from Brexit. If you delve into the numbers, it looks like what actually happens is that a chunk of voters move from No to DK. Thus the excluding DKs figures look like Yes had a boost but actually it's just that No has taken a hit. I'm not sure that when push came to shove, those DKs won't slide back towards No again.
    4. The UK is unravelling anyway. Tam Dalyell's "motorway with no exits" was bang on the money and the Brexit shenanigans have given things another little kick in the right direction even if they ultimately come to nothing. I'd rather wait a few years and take a smoother path.

    Having said all that, if a hard Brexit does go ahead, I think it's absolutely imperative for the long term that Scotland gets TFO of the UK and back into the EU. Being the neglected backwater region of a Brexit Britain run by Tory idiots (and let's face it, that's what we'll get for the majority of the foreseeable) gives me the heeby jeebies. Not a smart strategy at all. It would be painful but necessary if we want Scotland to be anything for the future.


    This. Impossible for anyone with an ounce of common sense to argue with. Although now I'm sure they'll try!

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
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    [/B]This. Impossible for anyone with an ounce of common sense to argue with. Although now I'm sure they'll try!
    Well. For one thing, a Brexit Britain might deliver a Labour government pretty quick.

    Also an independent Scotland will not find it easy to re-enter the EU.

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Well. For one thing, a Brexit Britain might deliver a Labour government pretty quick.

    Also an independent Scotland will not find it easy to re-enter the EU.
    Have you any evidence to back up either of these suppositions?

    For example Corbyn is pro Brexit so why would anyone vote Labour for more Brexit problems?

    An independent Scotland may not want to join the EU but prefer to be part of the customs union.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  21. #50
    I always thought EFTA would make the most sense for Scotland.

  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Well. For one thing, a Brexit Britain might deliver a Labour government pretty quick.

    Also an independent Scotland will not find it easy to re-enter the EU.
    It might. But how are they not ahead when up against this current shambles?




  23. #52
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    Have you any evidence to back up either of these suppositions?

    For example Corbyn is pro Brexit so why would anyone vote Labour for more Brexit problems?

    An independent Scotland may not want to join the EU but prefer to be part of the customs union.
    The whole thing is supposition. None of us know what's going to happen.

  24. #53
    Here's Elmar Brok, the chair of the Euro parliament's Foreign Affairs committee:




    But, but ... Spain would veto surely?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ies-to-join-eu

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    i'm kinda hoping the Dancing Queen delivers a hard brexit.....i have my reasons although a 2nd vote would also be acceptable...2nd votes are the way to go, it gives voters that fell for the misinformation/scaremongering the first time around to reconsider the actions of their stupidity the first time




    but i'm quite sure she really wants a softer brexit, and has done all along

  26. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Well. For one thing, a Brexit Britain might deliver a Labour government pretty quick.

    Also an independent Scotland will not find it easy to re-enter the EU.
    Highly unlikely an increasingly right wing thinking populace is going to vote in a Labour government any time soon. Also you have nothing to base your second point on. As many European politicians have come out in favour of Scotland remaining/re-joining as have those against.

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
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    Highly unlikely an increasingly right wing thinking populace is going to vote in a Labour government any time soon. Also you have nothing to base your second point on. As many European politicians have come out in favour of Scotland remaining/re-joining as have those against.
    The reason Labour will not win any election is because they are no longer the party of the working class.

  28. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
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    Highly unlikely an increasingly right wing thinking populace is going to vote in a Labour government any time soon. Also you have nothing to base your second point on. As many European politicians have come out in favour of Scotland remaining/re-joining as have those against.
    Spain? I'm just saying. I want a positive outcome just like everyone else.

  29. #58
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
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    Highly unlikely an increasingly right wing thinking populace is going to vote in a Labour government any time soon. Also you have nothing to base your second point on. As many European politicians have come out in favour of Scotland remaining/re-joining as have those against.
    Spain were always the most vocal opponent. No more, though.

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  30. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Spain? I'm just saying. I want a positive outcome just like everyone else.
    Their argument against Catalunya's independence is that it is against their constitution.

    They've said they had no problem with the Scottish referendum as it wasn't against any UK constitution.

    If they then voted down Scottish membership to the EU they would destroy their own argument against Catalunya's right to a referendum.

  31. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGRIGI View Post
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    Their argument against Catalunya's independence is that it is against their constitution.

    They've said they had no problem with the Scottish referendum as it wasn't against any UK constitution.

    If they then voted down Scottish membership to the EU they would destroy their own argument against Catalunya's right to a referendum.
    Yeah. That's maybe the case now.

    But...............

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