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Thread: Kavanaugh

  1. #1
    johnbc70
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    Kavanaugh

    Anyone watching this on Sky News? Fascinating television, better then any drama on TV. Pity that there is a serious allegations underneath that have turned into a circus.


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  3. #2
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    I think the fact that she's been having psychiatric treatment for PTSD long before Donald Trump was president never mind Kavanaugh's nomination blows the Republican's cries of a Democrat conspiracy out of the Water.

  4. #3
    johnbc70
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    I think she may well believe it was him, whether it was him or not I am not sure. All the others who were present have signed statements saying it never happened.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    I think she may well believe it was him, whether it was him or not I am not sure. All the others who were present have signed statements saying it never happened.
    They have said they have no recollection of the party in question, which is very different and is understandable, given Dr Ford didn't tell anyone for two decades. Why would they remember one university party amongst many?

    Dr Ford took and passed a polygraph; plus, why would she go public when she has NOTHING to gain? She is a renowned academic who only told her husband and therapist of the incident, both of whom verify her story.

    She took a polygraph and passed. Mr Kavanaugh and his fellow accused Mark Judge need only do the same, yet they refuse.

    Having watched the full testimony from both parties, I believe her: the drunken excesses of young men at university are no excuse for sexual assault. Her life has been terribly affected by her testimony, including death threats, though she had nothing to gain from this as a successful and intelligent woman. Her courage in testifying is inspirational.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 28-09-2018 at 03:02 AM.
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  6. #5
    johnbc70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    They have said they have no recollection of the party in question, which is very different and is understandable, given Dr Ford didn't tell anyone for two decades. Why would they remember one university party amongst many?

    Dr Ford took and passed a polygraph; plus, why would she go public when she has NOTHING to gain? She is a renowned academic who only told her husband and therapist of the incident, both of whom verify her story.

    She took a polygraph and passed. Mr Kavanaugh and his fellow accused Mark Judge need only do the same, yet they refuse.

    Having watched the full testimony from both parties, I believe her: the drunken excesses of young men at university are no excuse for sexual assault. Her life has been terribly affected by her testimony, including death threats, though she had nothing to gain from this as a successful and intelligent woman. Her courage in testifying is inspirational.
    I believe she believes it was him. What does her being a renowned academic have to do with it? He is a well respected Judge with an unblemished record of decades of public service with not a hint of scandal. Nothing but praise from the women he has worked with over many years.

    I think it turned into a political circus, the Democrats questioning him about if as 17 Yr old he got drunk and what his yearbook remarks meant, the Republicans not much better with their I feel so sorry for you and attacking the process.

    Like a lot of these cases it will be her word against his.

  7. #6
    All about the democrats doing all they can to stop the supreme court going to the right.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    I believe she believes it was him. What does her being a renowned academic have to do with it? He is a well respected Judge with an unblemished record of decades of public service with not a hint of scandal. Nothing but praise from the women he has worked with over many years.

    I think it turned into a political circus, the Democrats questioning him about if as 17 Yr old he got drunk and what his yearbook remarks meant, the Republicans not much better with their I feel so sorry for you and attacking the process.

    Like a lot of these cases it will be her word against his.
    This guy is up for the Supreme Court. There should be no questions on his integrity. He has this post for LIFE! (Which is barking BTW).

    The Senate is split 51-49 Republican, they need to push this through before the midterms. That said, there are likely Republicans who are appalled by the direction of their country. Do they have the courage of their convictions, or will they vote him through?

    J

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    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    I believe she believes it was him. What does her being a renowned academic have to do with it? He is a well respected Judge with an unblemished record of decades of public service with not a hint of scandal. Nothing but praise from the women he has worked with over many years.

    I think it turned into a political circus, the Democrats questioning him about if as 17 Yr old he got drunk and what his yearbook remarks meant, the Republicans not much better with their I feel so sorry for you and attacking the process.

    Like a lot of these cases it will be her word against his.
    Why do you think the 2 of them won't take lie detector tests?
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Why do you think the 2 of them won't take lie detector tests?
    Because it's not Jeremy Kyle and lie detector test are a load of rubbish?

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    Because it's not Jeremy Kyle and lie detector test are a load of rubbish?
    Kavanaugh's defenders are only saying polygraphs are 'a load if rubbish' because she passed. Had she failed the test, the same people would be using the result against Dr Ford.

    Why would this lady, a successful and renowned academic who now resides in California, randomly come forward to make these allegations? She has nothing to gain, and, if I understand correctly, there are now FIVE women making accusations against Kavanaugh; one says a very drunken Kavanaugh (a recurring theme) exposed himself and pressed his ***** against her face at a different party. No doubt many of the people who say she's making it up said the same about the women who accused Clinton, Trump, Roy Moore, Weinstein, Cosby and the rest. It remains very difficult for women to be listened to and believed.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 28-09-2018 at 05:32 PM.
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    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Powerful stuff. Shameful politician. Can’t even look her in the eye.

    https://twitter.com/cnn/status/1045671067270836224?s=21

    J

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    Powerful stuff. Shameful politician. Can’t even look her in the eye.

    https://twitter.com/cnn/status/1045671067270836224?s=21

    J
    His testimony, playing the devout Catholic, is at sharp odds with his past conduct. Okay, young men do silly things and then grow up; I'm sure we have all behaved the radge occasionally, particularly in drink, but sexual assault is something else entirely. That isn't just youthful excess, it's an arrogance born of a sense of entitlement and a callous disregard for the effect of such behaviour on young women. Perhaps he did change as he got older, I don't know, but, if these accusations are true, they have to be taken into account. Serious crimes which went unpunished can't just be written off as the 'mistakes' of a young man.
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  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Flake has now asked for an FBI investigation, albeit he has voted yes.

    11-10 in favour of passing it to the Senate

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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Kavanaugh's defenders are only saying polygraphs are 'a load if rubbish' because she passed. Had she failed the test, the same people would be using the result against Dr Ford.

    Why would this lady, a successful and renowned academic who now resides in California, randomly come forward to make these allegations? She has nothing to gain, and, if I understand correctly, there are now FIVE women making accusations against Kavanaugh; one says a very drunken Kavanaugh (a recurring theme) exposed himself and pressed his ***** against her face at a different party. No doubt many of the people who say she's making it up said the same about the women who accused Clinton, Trump, Roy Moore, Weinstein, Cosby and the rest. It remains very difficult for women to be listened to and believed.
    Being a Luddite I can’t work out how to bold a part of a quote from my phone.

    Re your last sentence about it being difficult for women to come forward and be believed, I would agree with that. However their also appears to be a double standard when it is a man that comes forward, like Jimmy Bennett. From what I’ve seen the media appear more interested in the statements back and forward between Asia Argento and Rose McGowan than actually reporting about another potential victim coming forward in a high profile case.

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    His testimony, playing the devout Catholic, is at sharp odds with his past conduct. Okay, young men do silly things and then grow up; I'm sure we have all behaved the radge occasionally, particularly in drink, but sexual assault is something else entirely. That isn't just youthful excess, it's an arrogance born of a sense of entitlement and a callous disregard for the effect of such behaviour on young women. Perhaps he did change as he got older, I don't know, but, if these accusations are true, they have to be taken into account. Serious crimes which went unpunished can't just be written off as the 'mistakes' of a young man.
    Agreed. A Supreme Court judge needs to be beyond clean. Accusations like this have to be given legitimacy.

    J

  17. #16
    johnbc70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    His testimony, playing the devout Catholic, is at sharp odds with his past conduct
    So you have already made up your mind he is guilty then?

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    So you have already made up your mind he is guilty then?
    Having watched the testimony of both people to the Senate Committee, I believe Dr Ford, yes. Nobody other than Ford, Kavanaugh and Judge really know what happened in that bedroom all those years ago. The rest of us can only listen to both sides and then make a judgement about whom we believe. Given the credibility of her evidence, and, given several other women have already come forward, I believe the accusers, yes. Mark Judge, the other man whom Dr Ford says was in the room at the time, should testify, but he refuses. Both Judge and Kavanaugh also refuse to take a polygraph.
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    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Flake has now asked for an FBI investigation, albeit he has voted yes.

    11-10 in favour of passing it to the Senate

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    So the long and short of it is it goes to the full Senate.

    The decision about delaying the full Senate vote to allow the FBI investigation doesn’t sit with the committee, it sits with Mitch McConnell, the Republican senate majority leader, who is pro-Kavanaugh.

    If McConnell forces the vote however, it seems clear Flake will vote against and there is a suspicion that he is taking point for a couple of other Rep senators who would prefer ‘due diligence’, meaning the wafer-thin Rep majority in the Senate would be lost, blocking Kavanaugh.

    All eyes on McConnell now, it’s a big gamble either way.
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    His testimony, playing the devout Catholic.
    On firm ground with that defence when it comes to the old sexual abuse, eh?

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    So the long and short of it is it goes to the full Senate.

    The decision about delaying the full Senate vote to allow the FBI investigation doesn’t sit with the committee, it sits with Mitch McConnell, the Republican senate majority leader, who is pro-Kavanaugh.

    If McConnell forces the vote however, it seems clear Flake will vote against and there is a suspicion that he is taking point for a couple of other Rep senators who would prefer ‘due diligence’, meaning the wafer-thin Rep majority in the Senate would be lost, blocking Kavanaugh.

    All eyes on McConnell now, it’s a big gamble either way.
    McConnell is another reactionary Republican dinosaur: climate change denier, owned by his donors, anti-worker, anti-abortion religious fundamentalist. We shouldn't expect anything of him. I think Noam Chomsky is correct when he describes the contemporary Republican Party as the most dangerous force in history. It sounds like hyperbole, but, when you look at the two most important issues which threaten human existence, climate change and nuclear war, the Republican Party is off the scale crackpot crazy.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 28-09-2018 at 07:34 PM.
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  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    So the long and short of it is it goes to the full Senate.

    The decision about delaying the full Senate vote to allow the FBI investigation doesn’t sit with the committee, it sits with Mitch McConnell, the Republican senate majority leader, who is pro-Kavanaugh.

    If McConnell forces the vote however, it seems clear Flake will vote against and there is a suspicion that he is taking point for a couple of other Rep senators who would prefer ‘due diligence’, meaning the wafer-thin Rep majority in the Senate would be lost, blocking Kavanaugh.

    All eyes on McConnell now, it’s a big gamble either way.
    I'm sure McConnell will be doing the numbers over the weekend. I read that Dubya was getting involved in some whipping.... that may have been Democrat-led gossip, mind you

    I'm fascinated by all of this. Whilst it's like one of the better episodes of House of Cards, with all the intrigue and sub-plots, at its heart are the reputations of 2 individuals, whose careers might not recover, depending on how this plays out.




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  23. #23
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I'm sure McConnell will be doing the numbers over the weekend. I read that Dubya was getting involved in some whipping.... that may have been Democrat-led gossip, mind you

    I'm fascinated by all of this. Whilst it's like one of the better episodes of House of Cards, with all the intrigue and sub-plots, at its heart are the reputations of 2 individuals, whose careers might not recover, depending on how this plays out.





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    Absolutely, CWG. Sadly, it has inevitably become about political wrangling, yet the real issue is an alleged sexual assault. The politicians seem to be making the assault a secondary issue to political ideology and will vote accordingly. Personally I regard Dr Ford as very credible, and, though my own views couldn't be more different from someone like Kavanaugh, I would believe her even if Kavanaugh was the most left wing Supreme Court candidate imaginable. The vast majority of Republicans are unconscionable fundamentalists and will back Kavanaugh come what may, for political gain.
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  24. #24
    @hibs.net private member Hibs Class's Avatar
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    Regardless of whether or not he's guilty of assault, his performance yesterday showed that he is both temperamentally unsuitable and incapable of the impartiality required of the position.
    ​#PERSEVERED


  25. #25
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Kavanaugh's defenders are only saying polygraphs are 'a load if rubbish' because she passed. Had she failed the test, the same people would be using the result against Dr Ford.

    Why would this lady, a successful and renowned academic who now resides in California, randomly come forward to make these allegations? She has nothing to gain, and, if I understand correctly, there are now FIVE women making accusations against Kavanaugh; one says a very drunken Kavanaugh (a recurring theme) exposed himself and pressed his ***** against her face at a different party. No doubt many of the people who say she's making it up said the same about the women who accused Clinton, Trump, Roy Moore, Weinstein, Cosby and the rest. It remains very difficult for women to be listened to and believed.
    All reasonable points and ones that I agree with except for the validity of polygraphs.

    I think they're a load of nonsense - acceptable in the kangaroo court of Jeremy Kyle but absolutely not to be relied upon when the matter is as serious as this.

    I would never, under any circumstances agree to do one and I don't think (although I stand to be corrected) that a Scottish court would consider them representative of anything.

    It does remain difficult for women to be listened to and believed, but the travesty of such cases is that it will so often boil down to one person's word against another's.

  26. #26
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  27. #27
    Damn.......it didn't take long in this thread before we got into some good, old fashioned anti-Catholicism.

  28. #28
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoHibee View Post
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    Damn.......it didn't take long in this thread before we got into some good, old fashioned anti-Catholicism.
    What do you mean?
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  29. #29
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    The Republicans have obviously done their sums. They've agreed to the delay, and Trump has ordered the FBI back in.

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  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    All reasonable points and ones that I agree with except for the validity of polygraphs.

    I think they're a load of nonsense - acceptable in the kangaroo court of Jeremy Kyle but absolutely not to be relied upon when the matter is as serious as this.

    I would never, under any circumstances agree to do one and I don't think (although I stand to be corrected) that a Scottish court would consider them representative of anything.

    It does remain difficult for women to be listened to and believed, but the travesty of such cases is that it will so often boil down to one person's word against another's.
    Alex Salmond has at least two women complaining of sexual harassment and/or sexual assault.

    Mon Scottish Labour

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