hibs.net Messageboard

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 91 to 120 of 124

Thread: Tourist Tax

  1. #91
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Age
    51
    Posts
    16,925
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This thread is about an Edinburgh tourist tax. I travel extensively and have to visit Edinburgh on many occasions throughout the year. The major expense I face is grossly inflated hotel prices at certain times of the year. We all understand supply and demand, increased cost of flights during school holidays, increased hotel costs at Xmas/New Year etc. Hence my perhaps curt answer above.

    Whilst I am in Edinburgh during these times (let's call me a tourist) taxi fares, bus fares, meals, a few pints, newspapers, cigarettes, a ticket for a Hibs game, cinema tickets, in fact just about anything you can think of a tourist does, are generally the same from one month to the next. You say raising prices is common across many industries. I say the major beneficiary of this practice are hotels. I find that Edinburgh hotels (as this is an Edinburgh tourist tax thread) jump on any anticipated busy spell, for example a rugby match or a concert, to raise prices, sometimes quadrupling the cost of a stay. To answer your question above, this is why I single out hotels.

    As the overwhelming major beneficiary of the bonus of the tourist Dollar, Yen, Euro, etc I don't think it would be unreasonable (if extra money is needed for the city) to get some sort of contribution from the hotels. Remember tourists don't come to Edinburgh to see hotels but hotels get the cash windfall. But let's not call it a windfall tax, call it anything you want. And as for how it would work....I haven't a clue. I'd be a politician and join the rest who haven't a clue.

    My main point is whilst many different businesses enjoy increased profits during busy times in Edinburgh, this is achieved through volume of trade. Hotels however hugely increase prices and may even put people off visiting the city during these periods. I wonder if there is data anywhere on how Scottish hotel prices affect peoples decisions to visit (or at least stay) in certain cities.
    I get your gripe about hotels as a paying guest/tourist however the demand on staff and facilities on hotels at the busy times you mention is horrendous. Running at 100% occupancy for a month at a time with many demanding guests increases running costs massively. Also believe it or not there aren’t that many hotels that can run at those occupancy levels and provide an experience that everyone is happy to pay full price for at the end of their stay. Discounting and comping is massive during busy periods to appease guests, and yes I speak from first hand experience. All is not what it seems in regards to revenue at these peak times.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #92
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I get your gripe about hotels as a paying guest/tourist however the demand on staff and facilities on hotels at the busy times you mention is horrendous. Running at 100% occupancy for a month at a time with many demanding guests increases running costs massively. Also believe it or not there aren’t that many hotels that can run at those occupancy levels and provide an experience that everyone is happy to pay full price for at the end of their stay. Discounting and comping is massive during busy periods to appease guests, and yes I speak from first hand experience. All is not what it seems in regards to revenue at these peak times.
    I've just seen a survey that claims Edinburgh was at 86% occupancy over 2017.

    Taking into account the smaller places that close in quiet times, and the quiet times themselves (admittedly, these are rare in Edinburgh nowadays), that suggests to me that for a large part of the year, 100% is more or less the norm.

  4. #93
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    8,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This thread is about an Edinburgh tourist tax. I travel extensively and have to visit Edinburgh on many occasions throughout the year. The major expense I face is grossly inflated hotel prices at certain times of the year. We all understand supply and demand, increased cost of flights during school holidays, increased hotel costs at Xmas/New Year etc. Hence my perhaps curt answer above.

    Whilst I am in Edinburgh during these times (let's call me a tourist) taxi fares, bus fares, meals, a few pints, newspapers, cigarettes, a ticket for a Hibs game, cinema tickets, in fact just about anything you can think of a tourist does, are generally the same from one month to the next. You say raising prices is common across many industries. I say the major beneficiary of this practice are hotels. I find that Edinburgh hotels (as this is an Edinburgh tourist tax thread) jump on any anticipated busy spell, for example a rugby match or a concert, to raise prices, sometimes quadrupling the cost of a stay. To answer your question above, this is why I single out hotels.

    As the overwhelming major beneficiary of the bonus of the tourist Dollar, Yen, Euro, etc I don't think it would be unreasonable (if extra money is needed for the city) to get some sort of contribution from the hotels. Remember tourists don't come to Edinburgh to see hotels but hotels get the cash windfall. But let's not call it a windfall tax, call it anything you want. And as for how it would work....I haven't a clue. I'd be a politician and join the rest who haven't a clue.

    My main point is whilst many different businesses enjoy increased profits during busy times in Edinburgh, this is achieved through volume of trade. Hotels however hugely increase prices and may even put people off visiting the city during these periods. I wonder if there is data anywhere on how Scottish hotel prices affect peoples decisions to visit (or at least stay) in certain cities.
    Cinema tickets are differently priced for different times

    Rugby matches are differently priced according to the opposition and level of match

    Taxis are different prices at different times

    Restaurants offer cheaper meals at lunchtime compared to dinner time

    The list goes on and on and some of them are clear beneficiaries of tourism.

    So while I get your beef about hotels and their variable pricing it’s simply not the case that they are the only business that do that or benefit from tourists when doing so.

    And as for proposing a tax on a metric that does nothing to reflect the ability to pay then just shrugging when asked how it would work....well that doesn’t exactly add much weight to your argument I would suggest.

    The tourist tax works as it’s a direct tax on the person, is a set amount that is easily collectible while going directly to the recipient city.

    A random tax based on nothing but a dislike of variable pricing by one particular industry in none of those things.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Cinema tickets are differently priced for different times----What times? Time of day or busy tourist periods? Examples?

    Rugby matches are differently priced according to the opposition and level of match ---Yes but we're talking about tourism and the tourist tax. Should rugby fans who may only be in the city for 1 day pay the tax?

    Taxis are different prices at different times ---The council sets the taxi rates, a little more expensive after midnight or Xmas etc maybe but not raised because the town is busy.

    Restaurants offer cheaper meals at lunchtime compared to dinner time---But their main menu prices are not raised during busy tourist times..is so examples please?

    The list goes on and on and some of them are clear beneficiaries of tourism. On and on? How many businesses clearly raise their prices to hit tourists?

    So while I get your beef about hotels and their variable pricing it’s simply not the case that they are the only business that do that or benefit from tourists when doing so.

    And as for proposing a tax on a metric that does nothing to reflect the ability to pay then just shrugging when asked how it would work....well that doesn’t exactly add much weight to your argument I would suggest.

    The tourist tax works as it’s a direct tax on the person, is a set amount that is easily collectible while going directly to the recipient city.

    A random tax based on nothing but a dislike of variable pricing by one particular industry in none of those things.
    I'll hold my hands up to the accusation that I can't back up the logistics of a windfall tax. However I submit your argument that other businesses do the same as hotels re pricing during busy periods doesn't hold water. Evidence for the outrageous pricing structure can clearly be seen on sites like booking.com. Where is the evidence for other businesses clearly and deliberately raising prices hugely during busy times?

  6. #95
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'll hold my hands up to the accusation that I can't back up the logistics of a windfall tax. However I submit your argument that other businesses do the same as hotels re pricing during busy periods doesn't hold water. Evidence for the outrageous pricing structure can clearly be seen on sites like booking.com. Where is the evidence for other businesses clearly and deliberately raising prices hugely during busy times?
    Dynamic pricing is the basis for that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_pricing

    Hibs do it as well. We raise our prices for big games, because we know we can.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Dynamic pricing is the basis for that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_pricing

    Hibs do it as well. We raise our prices for big games, because we know we can.
    Yes of course. Everyone who comes on here is of course right. I completely understand dynamic pricing/supply and demand but I feel this topic has moved on a little. I'm being told other Edinburgh businesses do as hotels do. Whilst I can prove hotels do it, where is the evidence that others do it to the same extent or at all? Just saying it happens doesn't mean it is.

  8. #97
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes of course. Everyone who comes on here is of course right. I completely understand dynamic pricing/supply and demand but I feel this topic has moved on a little. I'm being told other Edinburgh businesses do as hotels do. Whilst I can prove hotels do it, where is the evidence that others do it to the same extent or at all? Just saying it happens doesn't mean it is.
    Hibs.

  9. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hibs.
    Stick to topic please. Hibs don't do it because the city is busy or Rod Stewart is playing. Like Rugby fans, should away fans pay tourist tax?

  10. #99
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Stick to topic please. Hibs don't do it because the city is busy or Rod Stewart is playing. Like Rugby fans, should away fans pay tourist tax?
    You asked for examples of businesses raising their prices at busier times. Hibs do exactly that.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  11. #100
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    8,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes of course. Everyone who comes on here is of course right. I completely understand dynamic pricing/supply and demand but I feel this topic has moved on a little. I'm being told other Edinburgh businesses do as hotels do. Whilst I can prove hotels do it, where is the evidence that others do it to the same extent or at all? Just saying it happens doesn't mean it is.
    Perfect example here of dynamic charging for taxis


  12. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You asked for examples of businesses raising their prices at busier times. Hibs do exactly that.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Nothing to do with tourists or the tourist tax this thread is about. I suggest it's nothing like what we're talking about here but we obviously have different takes on fleecing tourists.

  13. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Perfect example here of dynamic charging for taxis


    What does that prove? I've already said we all know taxi prices vary at times of day and Xmas/New Year. That hits everybody. I'm asking for evidence businesses vastly increase prices during the city's busiest times. Hotels do it, who else?

  14. #103
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nothing to do with tourists or the tourist tax this thread is about. I suggest it's nothing like what we're talking about here but we obviously have different takes on fleecing tourists.
    The justification is exactly the same. Rightly or wrongly, businesses charge what the market will bear.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  15. #104
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Stick to topic please. Hibs don't do it because the city is busy or Rod Stewart is playing. Like Rugby fans, should away fans pay tourist tax?
    PSG do a weird variation of dynamic ticketing. They sell all their tickets to season ticket holders who then re-sell them via various internet platforms. I'm trying to get tickets for the upcoming game against Napoli and the cheapest tickets for me and the wee man would set me back €566.40 and that's category 17 tickets. Utter madness when you consider that the UK is trying to curb ticket touts it looks like the French are encouraging it.

    BTW I'll also have to cough up €0.20 Paris tourist tax per day for the duration of my stay.

  16. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The justification is exactly the same. Rightly or wrongly, businesses charge what the market will bear.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Are you just being deliberately evasive? I've been taken to task quite rightly about my suggestion a windfall levy could be applied to hotels. It's bollocks and unworkable I accept that.
    Now give me evidence to back up the further charge that other businesses do the same during busy periods in Edinburgh city to milk as much as they possibly can from tourists. More than one person has told me it happens....show me.

  17. #106
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Are you just being deliberately evasive? I've been taken to task quite rightly about my suggestion a windfall levy could be applied to hotels. It's bollocks and unworkable I accept that.
    Now give me evidence to back up the further charge that other businesses do the same during busy periods in Edinburgh city to milk as much as they possibly can from tourists. More than one person has told me it happens....show me.
    Not being evasive in the slightest. You asked for examples of businesses who change their prices at busy times. I gave you one immediately.

    Now you're asking for specific examples of businesses who are affected by the tourist industry. That's a different question, but I'll try and answer it.

    I have worked with and behalf of such businesses for over 30 years. I can assure you that it happens. As for proof, I'd be betraying confidentiality if I gave you that, so you'll just have to trust my experience.

    Like you, I'm a seasoned traveller. The notion of hiking prices at busy times is global. I can't see why Edinburgh should be any different. I also have no problem in paying higher admittance prices to sites than the locals; I understand that I am contributing to the provision of local services. Again, why would a rational visitor think differently?

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  18. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not being evasive in the slightest. You asked for examples of businesses who change their prices at busy times. I gave you one immediately. Hibs raising prices for big games is an example of dynamic pricing as you rightly say. Not an example of milking visitors to the city like hotels do. Again I say this is about tourist tax, should away fans pay tourist tax

    Now you're asking for specific examples of businesses who are affected by the tourist industry. That's a different question, but I'll try and answer it...I'm not asking a different question I'm asking my ONLY question

    I have worked with and behalf of such businesses for over 30 years. I can assure you that it happens. As for proof, I'd be betraying confidentiality if I gave you that, so you'll just have to trust my experience. So no evidence then

    Like you, I'm a seasoned traveller. The notion of hiking prices at busy times is global. I can't see why Edinburgh should be any different. I also have no problem in paying higher admittance prices to sites than the locals; I understand that I am contributing to the provision of local services. Again, why would a rational visitor think differently? Which sites charge extra admittance when the city is busy with tourists. Apart from hotels?

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Still waiting for evidence that businesses act like hotels and fleece tourists like hotels do.

  19. #108
    Teatime, thanks for the chat. Hope our Aussie boys come back uninjured

  20. #109
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    8,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Still waiting for evidence that businesses act like hotels and fleece tourists like hotels do.
    How is it ‘fleecing’? That signifies the tourist has no option nor was aware of the cost...neither of which will generally be true. They will have made a conscious decision to visit Edinburgh and understood the cost of accommodation during the time they choose to visit.

    You’ve been given multiple examples of dynamic pricing across many industries (including airlines who will carry lots of tourists!) that effect the people that use that service.

    Are you saying that only hotels are ‘fleecing’ people if those people are classed as tourists and the multiple other businesses who have dynamic pricing are not ‘fleecing’ their patrons simply because they might not immediately be classified as a tourist?

  21. #110
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Dont know its too dark in here
    Age
    61
    Posts
    9,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Still waiting for evidence that businesses act like hotels and fleece tourists like hotels do.
    Not evidence as such but all the tartan tatt shops have sales when there's fewer tourists about.
    Space to let

  22. #111
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,245
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How is it ‘fleecing’? That signifies the tourist has no option nor was aware of the cost...neither of which will generally be true. They will have made a conscious decision to visit Edinburgh and understood the cost of accommodation during the time they choose to visit.

    You’ve been given multiple examples of dynamic pricing across many industries (including airlines who will carry lots of tourists!) that effect the people that use that service.

    Are you saying that only hotels are ‘fleecing’ people if those people are classed as tourists and the multiple other businesses who have dynamic pricing are not ‘fleecing’ their patrons simply because they might not immediately be classified as a tourist?
    I argued earlier in the thread that this is not the right time for a tourist tax,over half our tourism comes from the EU and if the ever increasingly likely hard Brexit happens then visiting the UK will not only become more expensive but also more cumbersome.

    I can see the attraction of what the benefits might bring the city but I'd be concerned about the message it sends out to those you mention who make a conscious decision to visit the toun, they'll way up the pro and cons of visiting Edinburgh as opposed to say Salzburg, Salzburg, Vienna and other EU cities might also have tourist taxes but are generally less expensive and easier to get to, Brexit will also sway the conscious decisions of many and a tourist tax will only make a bad situation worse.

  23. #112
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I argued earlier in the thread that this is not the right time for a tourist tax,over half our tourism comes from the EU and if the ever increasingly likely hard Brexit happens then visiting the UK will not only become more expensive but also more cumbersome.

    I can see the attraction of what the benefits might bring the city but I'd be concerned about the message it sends out to those you mention who make a conscious decision to visit the toun, they'll way up the pro and cons of visiting Edinburgh as opposed to say Salzburg, Salzburg, Vienna and other EU cities might also have tourist taxes but are generally less expensive and easier to get to, Brexit will also sway the conscious decisions of many and a tourist tax will only make a bad situation worse.
    Bear in mind that the £ will likely tumble again, making the UK cheaper than other European countries

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  24. #113
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    8,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I argued earlier in the thread that this is not the right time for a tourist tax,over half our tourism comes from the EU and if the ever increasingly likely hard Brexit happens then visiting the UK will not only become more expensive but also more cumbersome.

    I can see the attraction of what the benefits might bring the city but I'd be concerned about the message it sends out to those you mention who make a conscious decision to visit the toun, they'll way up the pro and cons of visiting Edinburgh as opposed to say Salzburg, Salzburg, Vienna and other EU cities might also have tourist taxes but are generally less expensive and easier to get to, Brexit will also sway the conscious decisions of many and a tourist tax will only make a bad situation worse.
    I don’t think the value is anywhere near enough to change any decision.

    And honestly even if it does then it will hardly make a dent as the visitor numbers to Edinburgh are clearly growing massively over the medium term and must be substantially up in the last few years.

  25. #114
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    8,863
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Bear in mind that the £ will likely tumble again, making the UK cheaper than other European countries

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Naw they will all be off to Turkey...now there’s a currency devaluation for you!

  26. #115
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Age
    51
    Posts
    16,925
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've just seen a survey that claims Edinburgh was at 86% occupancy over 2017.

    Taking into account the smaller places that close in quiet times, and the quiet times themselves (admittedly, these are rare in Edinburgh nowadays), that suggests to me that for a large part of the year, 100% is more or less the norm.
    Which just proves that such surveys really really are fictional bollox with very little fact attached.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

  27. #116
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Which just proves that such surveys really really are fictional bollox with very little fact attached.
    In what way?

    https://www.insider.co.uk/news/scott...s-bdo-12399441

  28. #117
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Age
    51
    Posts
    16,925
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Another good news story, to suggest near100% occupancy is laughable. In my experience one of the major city hotels occupancy is indicative of the others. It hasn’t so they haven’t is the real story. Numbers are up but not to the scale that story suggests. Like every other media report, a pinch of salt is required. Just as speculative as players salaries.

  29. #118
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Another good news story, to suggest near100% occupancy is laughable. In my experience one of the major city hotels occupancy is indicative of the others. It hasn’t so they haven’t is the real story. Numbers are up but not to the scale that story suggests. Like every other media report, a pinch of salt is required. Just as speculative as players salaries.
    It's not as speculative as the salaries one, which was taken from unreliable sources. This one has been complied by BDO, so there is at least some credence to it. (no sniggering at the back there).

    AFAIK, hotels are required to make a return of statistics on an annual basis. How many actually do, and whether that skews these statistics, we can't know.

  30. #119
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Age
    51
    Posts
    16,925
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's not as speculative as the salaries one, which was taken from unreliable sources. This one has been complied by BDO, so there is at least some credence to it. (no sniggering at the back there).

    AFAIK, hotels are required to make a return of statistics on an annual basis. How many actually do, and whether that skews these statistics, we can't know.
    I base my remarks on 10 years spent at the Caley, we used to laugh at management meetings at some of the stats supposedly representing occupancy across the city.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

  31. #120
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I base my remarks on 10 years spent at the Caley, we used to laugh at management meetings at some of the stats supposedly representing occupancy across the city.
    Cool.

    Any thoughts on what you think is the actual average nowadays?

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved