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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I'm never sure what sectarianism is to be honest. This is where the whole thing gets stupid, as far as in aware neither the Fianna or the Fenians had any religious connections.

    For that matter, I don't know if Neil Lennon actually is a Fenian. So, taking it further we have to go to the spirit of what was being sung

    Was it to get at him/us for Irish reasons, it was it to fit a word I to the song ? For me it was the second, because although they may have sectarians in their support, they don't have any history of bigotry worth mentioning

    I'd have been most annoyed that they were rubbing our noses in an undeserved defeat.

    For me it's about intent, rather than the actual words. And I am not a cavalier, I'm a Roundhead.
    Lennon is not one. But thats what makes it worse in my opinion.... you hit the nail on the head when you say intent though.
    Their intent was to show hatred towards Lennon, but by picking those words (even though they are not true) it takes it from football banter into another realm.
    Like i said, by dismissing the use of a sectarian slur as banter you trivialise it and go some way (even the smallest of percentages) toward making it acceptable to use... No one would accept the use of the N word to describe our manager if he were black, so why should we accept the use of Fenian?

    So at the end of the day, they can rub our noses in it all they wish, that would have been annoying enough, but taking it up a notch to what many deem unacceptable is deplorable.


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  3. #32
    I hate orange *******s.

    It's ok to say that though because I'm referring specifically to the Orange Order and not all Protestants. Doesn't really work as an argument does it? It's the same as not acknowledging that the literal definition of fenian and the the Scottish football/society definition may differ.
    PM Awards General Poster of The Year 2015, 2016, 2017. Probably robbed in other years

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    So racist songs are OK if the singer doesn’t mean them in a racist way? Keep digging.
    I think all racist songs should be banned but how many gangster rap songs each year are produced and sold with the N word in it? I’ve said for a while I believe these songs seem to be acceptable to the government as they make tax on them. If they really did matter they would be banned and not allowed to be produced then sold.

    We live in a society that accepts a lot by turning a blind eye to it.

    GGTTH

  5. #34
    Left by mutual consent!
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    Jeez, how do I get myself into these messes?


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Lennon is not one. But thats what makes it worse in my opinion.... you hit the nail on the head when you say intent though.
    Their intent was to show hatred towards Lennon, but by picking those words (even though they are not true) it takes it from football banter into another realm.
    Like i said, by dismissing the use of a sectarian slur as banter you trivialise it and go some way (even the smallest of percentages) toward making it acceptable to use... No one would accept the use of the N word to describe our manager if he were black, so why should we accept the use of Fenian?

    So at the end of the day, they can rub our noses in it all they wish, that would have been annoying enough, but taking it up a notch to what many deem unacceptable is deplorable.
    I think it was a pretty scuzzy thing to be singing, and it goes beyond banter, possibly into the realms of hate speech, and probably a thought crime whilst we are at it. I wish they hadn't sung it, I keep trying to make it clear I have little respect for them because they did.

    I do see the problem, I'm not part of it. I also see the problem in getting all worked up about it, whilst people think they have bigger problems in life to deal with, and see it as a pretty trivial thing to waste much energy on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I hate orange *******s.

    It's ok to say that though because I'm referring specifically to the Orange Order and not all Protestants. Doesn't really work as an argument does it? It's the same as not acknowledging that the literal definition of fenian and the the Scottish football/society definition may differ.
    I think you are maybe contradicting yourself in that statement. If it isn't possible to discern between Protestants and Orangemen, then how it is it possible to tell the difference between Fenians and Catholics?

    (you'll never believe this but....) I'm no lawyer, but it's pretty easy to tell why a sherriff called the Anti Sectarianism legislation "mince", there are far too many subjective elements to it.

    I don't call anybody Orange bassas, or Fenian bassas, and if anybody calls me either, screw them - I've earned the right to be a bassa all by myself, and don't would like some acknowledgement of the skill involved in doing so.

    Edit: and that's all I'm going to say on that particular subject.
    Last edited by Chic Murray; 26-09-2018 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Ends

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