hibs.net Messageboard

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 31
  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Up my own erchie
    Posts
    8,356

    Best formation-tactics?

    Taking into account tha personnel available and the opponents might also determine formation and tactics I’m wondering what folk think our might be our favoured approach this season?

    I like the 3 central defenders, but that doesn’t suit us playing with Gray and Stevenson out wide?? I really like the way Hanlon and Ambrose take adavantage of the space and stride forward with the ball. That can be hard against and has helped open up defences.

    Playing 4 at the back allows us to play the two full backs with widemen in front. However, ai always want us to play two attackers, especially as we have a front two who are going to score plenty of goals together. One up front doesn’t seem to work for us. That leaves a traditional 442 formation, with Milligan and Mallan as the two obvious first choice players. Does that work against 5 in midfield which we often encounter against teams at ER.

    I tend not to really pay too much attention to how other teams set out, and I don’t play champ manager, so can the more tactically informed give some insight into how we could get the best out the group of players we have.

    In sayin* all this, we have so many new players and it’s too early yet to be sure how good they are. We’ve also had a lot of changes to the side already, probably due to injury and fitness of various players.

    I’m intrigued by how we’re going to set up and whether Lennon changes our style?


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #2
    Great to have permutations to suit the way the opposition play and where their threat comes from, to keep the oppo guessing about how we are going to set up, and also to be able to change things seamlessly if we need to mid-game.

    I'd like to see more of the team that finished y'day, but maybe with Hanlon instead of Porteous?

  4. #3
    Testimonial Due LustForLeith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The Bus From Hell
    Age
    47
    Posts
    4,500
    It’s a good headache to have but fully fit, no suspensions, I really can’t work out Hibs best formation or starting line up.

    Somethings got to give

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Winston Ingram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    11,657
    Blog Entries
    1
    We look really shaky with 3 at the back.

    I’ve always thought 352 is a really dated formation.

    It’s only successful in the short term and you don’t see any top sides playing it on a regular basis.

    It puts too much pressure on the wing backs.

  6. #5
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    465
    Thought it was 4-1-4-1 yesterday with Whittaker sitting in front of the back four and Kamberi up front. It lets you play Horgan on the left and Boyle on the right. The game was very enjoyable with these attacking options. Hope its more of the same next week and maybe Milligan in for Whittaker.

  7. #6
    Left by mutual consent!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    2,137
    Kamberi and Maclaren have to play together so whatever the formation is it has to be 2 upfront.

    I still like 352 which worked well for us last season.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Up my own erchie
    Posts
    8,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Thought it was 4-1-4-1 yesterday with Whittaker sitting in front of the back four and Kamberi up front. It lets you play Horgan on the left and Boyle on the right. The game was very enjoyable with these attacking options. Hope its more of the same next week and maybe Milligan in for Whittaker.
    Thin’ you’re probably right, but we played better with two up front.

    Quote Originally Posted by IGRIGI View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Kamberi and Maclaren have to play together so whatever the formation is it has to be 2 upfront.

    I still like 352 which worked well for us last season.
    I agree on both points.

    I have no idea what other teams play, but we were good enough to impose ourselves and win against all of the top six with the 352 last season and played our best football with that formation.

  9. #8
    Coaching Staff
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Dunfermline
    Age
    39
    Posts
    13,337
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Myjo5984 Wii Code: 3916 0145 9394 9493
    ______________Marciano
    ____Ambrose___McGregor___Hanlon
    Gray___________Milligan________Stevenson
    _______Mallan__________Horgan
    ____________Kamberi
    ___________________Maclaren

    Defensive minded 3-5-2
    Last edited by MyJo; 16-09-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  10. #9
    Coaching Staff
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Dunfermline
    Age
    39
    Posts
    13,337
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Myjo5984 Wii Code: 3916 0145 9394 9493
    ______________Marciano
    _____Ambrose__McGregor__Hanlon
    ______________Milligan__________
    _______Mallan__________Slivka
    Boyle_________________________Horgan
    _________Kamberi___Maclaren

    More attack focused 3-5-2
    McGregor playing as a sweeper allowing Hanlon and Ambrose to sit a bit higher up the park and when defending Milligan can drop back into centre half with Ambrose and Hanlon covering the full back areas.
    Last edited by MyJo; 16-09-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  11. #10
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    PDSBRS
    Posts
    13,062
    We need two up front to get the best from Kamberi and Maclaren.

    We have three talented wingers, which takes two more places, and Mallan.

    We need a defensive midfielder for balance.

    And so by a process of elimination we have to play four at the back, unless we want to try 3-5-2 with Horgan in the middle and Boyle at RWB, but then there is no Gray and no place for Agyepong.

    The good thing is that with wingers in front of them our full backs can concentrate on defending, which should make us more solid at the back.

    The correct answer is therefore 4-1-3-2.
    Mature, sensible signature required for responsible position. Good prospects for the right candidate. Apply within.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    5,982
    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Thought it was 4-1-4-1 yesterday with Whittaker sitting in front of the back four and Kamberi up front. It lets you play Horgan on the left and Boyle on the right. The game was very enjoyable with these attacking options. Hope its more of the same next week and maybe Milligan in for Whittaker.
    Would you not try and factor in Kamberi and MacLaren together up top?

  13. #12
    Testimonial Due GreenOnions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    1,821
    Interesting thread. I think most would agree that you need to start by looking at what you've got in the squad before deciding on a best formation rather than the other way round.

    We have four really good central defenders - all of whom are mobile. We also have two strikers who showed last year they can make a real difference for us if they play together.

    Lennon has improved Boyle to the extent that he can now defend as well as attack - allowing us to play 3-5-2 without having two out-and-out full-backs in the wide areas.

    Lennon has brought in Milligan - who is clearly a combative player for central midfield but looks more mobile and creative than an out-and-out holding player. When we have played three central defenders in the past plus a holding medfielder we have sometimes lacked creativity going forward. Whittaker can play this role but I'm thinking Lennon feels Milligan might do it better.

    For me - with our squad 4-3-3 (like we played on Saturday until McLaren came on), 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1 etc all mean that we won't get the best use out of our squad because two of our central defenders won't be playing and either McLaren or Kamberi will not be on the pitch.

    3-5-2 allows us to play three of our four central defenders and to have width as well as two strikers on the pitch and bringing in Milligan will hopefully allow us to have some dig in central midfield without losing creativity in there.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member AgentDaleCooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    not sure
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,365
    The dilemma seems to be to do with fitting boyle and gray in to the starting 11, whilst keeping 2 up top. 442 feels weak in the middle to me, and i love how the 352 system worked for us last year, with ambrose and hanlon bombing forward. For what it's worth, i think SDG is mord important than boyle, though that may be controversial.

  15. #14
    Testimonial Due GreenOnions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    1,821
    Quote Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The dilemma seems to be to do with fitting boyle and gray in to the starting 11, whilst keeping 2 up top. 442 feels weak in the middle to me, and i love how the 352 system worked for us last year, with ambrose and hanlon bombing forward. For what it's worth, i think SDG is mord important than boyle, though that may be controversial.
    I don't think it's controversial ADC. It's a valid argument. It's good for us to have such strong options isn't it? It also gives us options if Lewis is injured as we could play SDG on the right and maybe Boyle/Horgan or even Agyepong on the left?

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The dilemma seems to be to do with fitting boyle and gray in to the starting 11, whilst keeping 2 up top. 442 feels weak in the middle to me, and i love how the 352 system worked for us last year, with ambrose and hanlon bombing forward. For what it's worth, i think SDG is mord important than boyle, though that may be controversial.
    Gray based on current form can’t be left out, not a chance. Boyle is seen as one of our biggest attacking threats but Gray has 3 goals to his 1 so far this season. I’m a big fan of Boyle, but if we’re playing a back 3 and it’s a choice between the two of them at the moment I’d be choosing Gray all day long.

    Now that players are coming back I think we can be flexible and change when we need to. Players are far more important than system. IMO, had Kamberi been available for instance, I’m sure we’d have a few extra points regardless of playing 442, 352, 433 or whatever.

  17. #16
    The team that finished against Killie should be the starting 11 . Hanlon and Rocky would come in when fit for Efe and Bogdan . Boyle as a supersub . Gray is Captain and has to start . Flo needs Jamie up front .

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    32
    Posts
    13,700
    I'd echo the comments earlier that it's an impossible task as ideally I'd want SDG and Boyle both playing their natural positions and 2 up front.

    The closest I can get is:

    Bogdan
    Gray Ambrose Hanlon Stevenson
    Milligan Mallan
    Boyle ......... Horgan
    Kamberi Maclaren

    But I'd also rather Horgan was played more through the middle of an attacking 3. I also really liked the look of agyepong. At which point, I'd be inclined to try 1 up top again, so long as Kamberi got enough support from the attacking midfield.

    Bogdan
    Gray Ambrose Hanlon Stevenson
    Milligan Mallan
    Boyle Horgan Agyepong
    Kamberi

    None of which plays into my narrative that Slivka deserves a chance in a similar role to Horgans.
    Mon the Hibs.

  19. #18
    Testimonial Due Edinburgh Green's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    1,787
    4-4-2

    Bogdan/Rocky

    Stevenson
    Hanlon
    McGregor
    Gray

    Horgan
    Mallan
    Milligan
    Boyle

    Kamberi
    McLaren

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Age
    65
    Posts
    30,855
    4-2-2-2 or 4-1-3-2

    Bogdan

    Gray
    McGregor
    Hanlon
    Stevenson

    Milligan
    Mallan

    Boyle
    Horgan

    Flo
    Jamie

    or

    Bogdan

    Gray
    Darren
    Hanlon
    Lewis

    Milligan

    Agyepong
    Mallan
    Horgan

    Flo
    Jamie

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The team that finished against Killie should be the starting 11 . Hanlon and Rocky would come in when fit for Efe and Bogdan . Boyle as a supersub . Gray is Captain and has to start . Flo needs Jamie up front .
    Don’t think it’s as straight forward as saying that should be the team. You need to look at the opposition as well and I can’t imagine us going away to the likes of Ibrox and Tynecastle and just playing with a middle two of Milligan and Mallan.

    I think it’s fair to say that we are better with the two strikers playing together and Lennon pretty much said after the game on Saturday that is what he wants to do. But I can still see him chopping and changing a bit elsewhere depending on the game.

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Up my own erchie
    Posts
    8,356
    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Don’t think it’s as straight forward as saying that should be the team. You need to look at the opposition as well and I can’t imagine us going away to the likes of Ibrox and Tynecastle and just playing with a middle two of Milligan and Mallan.

    I think it’s fair to say that we are better with the two strikers playing together and Lennon pretty much said after the game on Saturday that is what he wants to do. But I can still see him chopping and changing a bit elsewhere depending on the game.
    I think we did play that formation (352) throughout the second half of the season, regardless of the opposition (except for the game at Tynecastle). However, with the loss of the midfield trio, I do think we need to adapt and play to the strengths of the current squad, so you may well be right about a more flexible approach to the tactics and formation.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    The East
    Age
    52
    Posts
    9,199
    Formation will change depending on the opposition and whether we’re at home or away.

    It really doesn’t matter, there’s no such thing as a strongest formation anyways.

    The way the team is set up for kick off will usually change several times throughout the match.

    Play with the two strikers and everything else can change game by game

  24. #23
    For me Saturday made it very clear we need to go with the 2 upfront. Kamberi was lost without Jamie and was completely ineffectual till
    He came on.

    Milligan looks like he is going To go some way to replace the quality and the dig we had in midfield last season.

    In terms of formation though I think the 3 at the back has ran its course and teams know how to hurt us when playing that way.

    I’d probs be in favour of 4-3-1-2 with with either Horgan, Tam or Boyle in a free role, if it’s not Horgan I’d have him on the left of the midfield 3.

  25. #24
    First Team Regular pentlando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    35
    Posts
    720
    I think the fact we don't have an obvious tactic suits us. We'll probably end up well drilled in 3/4 systems and will more easily flex to whatever the opponents weaknesses are.

    I like the 3-5-2 for the solidness it gives but we lose width and pace when it's Gray and Stevenson. If playing this I'd rather Boyle at RWB. The 4-5-1 gives us two wide options from Agyepong, Boyle and Horgan but you lose the Kamberi/Maclaren partnership. 4-4-2 gives width and attacking options, and may be an option with both Mallan and Milligan sitting deep.

    One I'd like to see at some point would be more of a 3-4-3, with Boyle or Horgan given a free role off Kamberi and Maclaren.

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    10,560
    Quote Originally Posted by pentlando View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think the fact we don't have an obvious tactic suits us. We'll probably end up well drilled in 3/4 systems and will more easily flex to whatever the opponents weaknesses are.

    I like the 3-5-2 for the solidness it gives but we lose width and pace when it's Gray and Stevenson. If playing this I'd rather Boyle at RWB. The 4-5-1 gives us two wide options from Agyepong, Boyle and Horgan but you lose the Kamberi/Maclaren partnership. 4-4-2 gives width and attacking options, and may be an option with both Mallan and Milligan sitting deep.

    One I'd like to see at some point would be more of a 3-4-3, with Boyle or Horgan given a free role off Kamberi and Maclaren.
    I think players need to know their jobs. We have looked a complete shambles defensively of late and while individual error is a big part of that so is the lack of consistency in selection and a system that doesn't necessarily suit those in it. Our signings suggest to me that we may move away from. 532 as we bought two more wingers. Much depends on Milligan and his ability to give us drive, tackles and get us moving.

  27. #26
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Bonnyrigg
    Posts
    481
    I have always liked the 4-2-3-1 formation. for example

    Bogdan

    Gray
    Porteous
    Hanlon
    Stevenson

    Milligan
    Bartley

    Horgan
    Mallan
    Boyle

    Kamberi

    Alternative Being 4-3-1-2

    Bogdan

    Gray
    Hanlon
    Porteous
    Stevenson

    Milligan
    Mallan
    Horgan

    Boyle

    Kamberi
    MacLaren

    I personally don't think the 3 at the back is working, as it shown by the amount of goals we are currently conceding !!!

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    15,550
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Ingram View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We look really shaky with 3 at the back.

    I’ve always thought 352 is a really dated formation.

    It’s only successful in the short term and you don’t see any top sides playing it on a regular basis.

    It puts too much pressure on the wing backs.
    It became dated in the late 90s when a lot of teams shifted to one up top. Playing three at the back meant you had two spares instead of one, which left you short somewhere else on the pitch.

    Nowadays I think you do see top sides using it. Juve are the obvious example and Chelsea won the league using it a couple of seasons back. Guardiola has used it on and off at all three of his clubs.

    The trick isn’t so much the shape as having the quality of players to make it work, particularly the centre half who steps out. Bonucci is the prime example but I think David Luiz is a good example too. He had been much maligned but when fitted into that role, it suited his strengths.
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  29. #28
    Testimonial Due Sioux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    1,683
    Ambrose and Hanlon as two centre backs = weak. Neither are capable of attacking balls into the box, and neither can tackle.

    They need to be in a three with someone like McGregor or Porteous to do the 'dirty' stuff.

    With Stevenson on the left, we only have Gray in that back four who has a bit of dig.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member Winston Ingram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    11,657
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It became dated in the late 90s when a lot of teams shifted to one up top. Playing three at the back meant you had two spares instead of one, which left you short somewhere else on the pitch.

    Nowadays I think you do see top sides using it. Juve are the obvious example and Chelsea won the league using it a couple of seasons back. Guardiola has used it on and off at all three of his clubs.

    The trick isn’t so much the shape as having the quality of players to make it work, particularly the centre half who steps out. Bonucci is the prime example but I think David Luiz is a good example too. He had been much maligned but when fitted into that role, it suited his strengths.
    Chelsea weren’t successfully with it. They were successful with a 3-4-3 with Hazard and Willian who played in the wide positions in a front 3 which took a load of pressure off the wing backs. They’re form fell off a cliff at the start of last season when they moved to 3-5-2. Hazard wanted to play central so they moved him in behind Morata and stuck an extra man in midfield.

    Juve also tended to go with 3-4-3. Last season they played Mandzukic left, Higuain central and Dybala on the right. When they did go 3-5-2 they’d drop Mandzukic and move Dybala central.

    Other than that I can think of no one. We have one successful side in Italy using it occasionally.

    A brilliant example was the nick of England’s wing backs in the WC semi’s. Young was clearly knackered in the first half and Trippier was carried off with exhaustion.

  31. #30
    Bogdan/Marciano (can’t really tell who’s better, both are good)

    Gray
    Porteous
    Hanlon/McGregor
    Stevenson

    Horgan
    Mallan
    Milligan
    Boyle

    Kamberi
    Maclaren


    Obviously the notable things there are that Ambrose doesn’t feature and Porteous is a starter. As good a footballer as Efe Ambrose is, he is still shaky defensively and if we were to play the 442 I think we’d need 2 really reliable and solid centre halves. As for Porteous, he may not be our best defender yet but he is not far behind. We can’t hold him back any longer and if he is to progress he has to be playing for us week in week out.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2020 All Rights Reserved
- Mobile Leaderboard (320x50) - Leaderboard (728x90)