Decline of Scottish National Football Team

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Im not saying what Iceland are doing is wrong. What im saying is that sometimes teams land on a good team and managememt and have just as much success. I dont think Scotland are a bad team and not nearly as poor as folk are making out. If Scotland qualify for this tournament, then is everything ok, is the SFA great now?

Reasonable point you did seem to be putting luck as a key factor while it may be a factor surely a proper plan is more important and then fine margins may kick in as in who we draw or who the manager is.

[Gordy M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Reasonable point you did seem to be putting luck as a key factor while it may be a factor surely a proper plan is more important and then fine margins may kick in as in who we draw or who the manager is.

No it is mate.....my example of luck was to do with a tournament that Iceland qualified for and we didnt....Euro 2016. Would Iceland have qualified from a group Including ROI Poland and Germany?? Im not sure.

Thing is our squad is full of guys playing in the premiership/championship and top of the SPL. That would suggest that we are producing some good players at least. We dont have that Star player a lot of other countries have but that apart our squad looks as good as a lot of other countries mentioned in this thread.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No it is mate.....my example of luck was to do with a tournament that Iceland qualified for and we didnt....Euro 2016. Would Iceland have qualified from a group Including ROI Poland and Germany?? Im not sure.

Thing is our squad is full of guys playing in the premiership/championship and top of the SPL. That would suggest that we are producing some good players at least. We dont have that Star player a lot of other countries have but that apart our squad looks as good as a lot of other countries mentioned in this thread.

Tend to agree about the squad being better just a shame we do seem very short in key areas such as centre back and striker.

[Gordy M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Tend to agree about the squad being better just a shame we do seem very short in key areas such as centre back and striker.

Yep i agree, hopefully we can put a few results together. I would say i cant understand playing Belgium and Portugal as friendlies. We need to put a run of results together so i wouldve been tempted to play against 2 of the 'lesser' teams and try and get wins to get the confidence up.

[CorrieHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No it is mate.....my example of luck was to do with a tournament that Iceland qualified for and we didnt....Euro 2016. Would Iceland have qualified from a group Including ROI Poland and Germany?? Im not sure.

Thing is our squad is full of guys playing in the premiership/championship and top of the SPL. That would suggest that we are producing some good players at least. We dont have that Star player a lot of other countries have but that apart our squad looks as good as a lot of other countries mentioned in this thread.

Tbf, we should have got a play off in that group.

The game in Georgia again let us down. Ireland taking 4 points off of Germany didn’t help though.

Iceland would have got a play off place at least.

Sometimes in international football you have a golden generation. Iceland have had success in the last 5/6 years. They’ve been struggling this year. Humped by the Swiss. Maybe now their team is aging and they might drift away. Not sure who they have coming in.

For what it’s worth, I think we have a decent side. Centre backs aren’t great. Although, Soutar and McKenna have promise, so fingers crossed. Midfield looks good, Griffith’s will score goals against the lesser nations and that’s sometimes what we have lacked. Dropping points in those fixtures.

McBrunie will add to that and he’s only 21/22, so will improve.

McLeish wasn’t my choice like most folk, but he’s in the job and we have to support it.

He needs to figure out how we play Tierney and Robbo in the same team. Personally i’d go with Robbo at Left mid/wing and Tierney left back. I don’t think we’re good enough to play at back 3 that’s plays from back. Certainly against the top nations like Belgium.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Tend to agree about the squad being better just a shame we do seem very short in key areas such as centre back and striker.

Yes it is a shame, mainly because if you flip it around and have a couple of excellent centre-halves and a striker who can score then you can probably put out a team that is hard to beat and can pick goals off on the break, a fairly effective playing style.

Our weaknesses are in absolutely critical positions sadly.

[Speedy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This will have happened in every country in Europe. Why has it only affected us?

I don't think it has only affected us.

Various other things are interlinked with that though. Rising affluence of the population relative to other countries/facilities for football/take up of other activities/weather

[Onion]

If we had just one or two decent players to build the team around, would at least be a start and maybe help drag others up a level or two. Wales is a bang average team excelling because of couple of great players. But in the last 20 years, cannot think of one Scottish player who would come close to an Arron Ramsay let alone Bale. Not one of the current squad would get into the England team.

[Juniper Greens]

Is Robertson knocking on the door of being "World Class"?

[CMurdoch]

Gylfi Sigurdsson is now 29.
I predict Iceland have one 4 year cycle left in their team before falling back into the also ran pack.

[500miles]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If we had just one or two decent players to build the team around, would at least be a start and maybe help drag others up a level or two. Wales is a bang average team excelling because of couple of great players. But in the last 20 years, cannot think of one Scottish player who would come close to an Arron Ramsay let alone Bale. Not one of the current squad would get into the England team.

Darren Fletcher was a very different kind of player to Ramsey, but certainly on the same level up until his illness. In fact, in terms of silverware, Ramsey isn't even close.

As an aside, if you look at pictures of Fletcher before and after the ulcerative colitis, it's testimony to how good he is that he contained to play top level football afterwards.

[Lancs Harp]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Gylfi Sigurdsson is now 29.
I predict Iceland have one 4 year cycle left in their team before falling back into the also ran pack.

I think Icelands decline is already in evidence. True they got a very creditable draw against Argentina in the world cup but the only match they have won in 2018 was against Indonesia. A 2-2 draw with Ghana and lost six. They have a had a great little run though.

[The Green Goblin]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Gylfi Sigurdsson is now 29.
I predict Iceland have one 4 year cycle left in their team before falling back into the also ran pack.

...where they will rejoin us!

[Hibrandenburg]

Over here the youth system is excellent. Kids normally start in teams between the ages of 4 and 6 but there's nothing stopping them joining later. All players need to have a player pass and their development is registered from the very start.

Each age group covers a period of 2 years so that the younger kids get to mix it with the older kids and vice versa. The rules of the game are kept very basic at the start and are increased every time the kids reach the next level. The pitches also grow in size every level until the kids are eventually playing 11 v 11 on full size pitches.

Another difference is that the football clubs themselves have a strong social aspect to them. Near enough every village has a football team and every football team has it's own bar/restaurant on site. This means that most of the kids parents get involved on a social level and identify themselves with the club their kids play for. My boy's team are playing Saturdays this year and most of the kids and parents hang around after the game to watch the first or second team play when we have home games. There's also the chance to sit outside the clubhouse with a pint and socialize with other parents whilst your kids are being put through their paces at training twice a week.

I used to play for a city team in Berlin before moving outside the city, my boy now playing for his local team has not only been fantastic for him in his development but has also played a huge role in the whole family integrating quickly into the local community. Any country would do well to look at the German way.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Decline? What decline? We’re flying high now.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Darren Fletcher was a very different kind of player to Ramsey, but certainly on the same level up until his illness. In fact, in terms of silverware, Ramsey isn't even close.

As an aside, if you look at pictures of Fletcher before and after the ulcerative colitis, it's testimony to how good he is that he contained to play top level football afterwards.

I think arguably Fletcher could be seen as being a better player than Ramsey especially in terms of trophies and playing regularly in a better team.

[CMurdoch]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Over here the youth system is excellent. Kids normally start in teams between the ages of 4 and 6 but there's nothing stopping them joining later. All players need to have a player pass and their development is registered from the very start.

Each age group covers a period of 2 years so that the younger kids get to mix it with the older kids and vice versa. The rules of the game are kept very basic at the start and are increased every time the kids reach the next level. The pitches also grow in size every level until the kids are eventually playing 11 v 11 on full size pitches.

Another difference is that the football clubs themselves have a strong social aspect to them. Near enough every village has a football team and every football team has it's own bar/restaurant on site. This means that most of the kids parents get involved on a social level and identify themselves with the club their kids play for. My boy's team are playing Saturdays this year and most of the kids and parents hang around after the game to watch the first or second team play when we have home games. There's also the chance to sit outside the clubhouse with a pint and socialize with other parents whilst your kids are being put through their paces at training twice a week.

I used to play for a city team in Berlin before moving outside the city, my boy now playing for his local team has not only been fantastic for him in his development but has also played a huge role in the whole family integrating quickly into the local community. Any country would do well to look at the German way.

That sounds great on so many levels, especially the social aspects.

[CMurdoch]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think Icelands decline is already in evidence. True they got a very creditable draw against Argentina in the world cup but the only match they have won in 2018 was against Indonesia. A 2-2 draw with Ghana and lost six. They have a had a great little run though.

They have had an outragous run based on their population

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think arguably Fletcher could be seen as being a better player than Ramsey especially in terms of trophies and playing regularly in a better team.

Fletcher and Man Utd benefitted massively from Bertie Vogts chucking him into the national team early.

Craig Brown and the like were used to waiting until 27 or 28 before giving good players their first cap.

Bertie was much maligned but he got some stuff bang on.

[theonlywayisup]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Decline? What decline? We’re flying high now.

Based on last nights display, it's going to take a long long time before fortunes improve.

Over the last few years, we've had the odd decent display or even decent spell. But that only attempts to cover up the serious decline in the quality of the football played by the national team.

We've found our level in the 3rd tier of European Football and were comfortably beaten by team that looked to be heading the 4th tier. A defeat in Albania and a draw or loss at home to Israel might mean relegation to the 4th tier, where we'll compete against the minnows of European football.

[Lago]

Good piece from Tom English on bbc sport web site.

[theonlywayisup]

Vote for your worst 90 minutes as a Scotland fan?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45832167

Some horrific results in there, but I'm sure they missed a few. For example, Costa Rica and Iran - they'll be in the 'other'.

[G B Young]

It bemuses me why anyone claims to be shocked by Scotland's ineptitude any more.

The 'decline' is not some recent phenomenon. It goes back decades, hence why we find ourselves in such a tinpot group in a tinpot tournament - and why we struggle even in such lowly company. Blaming McLeish is nonsense. We've been through about half a dozen managers since we last qualified for something and all have failed to get us to a major tournament. Even the dumbed-down Nations League, which is the equivalent of reducing the pass mark in an exam from 50% to 15% to try and give some of the serial non-qualifiers a much easier qualification route (quite how that's supposed to improve the quality of the football is questionable to say the least) seems too challenging for us.

I'm not sure what folk actually expect of Scotland any more. Whatever we once brought to the international stage is long gone. I gave up watching them more than a decade ago as it struck me there were better things to do with my time, which looks to have been a wiser decision with each passing year!

[ancient hibee]

s

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Vote for your worst 90 minutes as a Scotland fan?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45832167

Some horrific results in there, but I'm sure they missed a few. For example, Costa Rica and Iran - they'll be in the 'other'.

They were outwith the period BBC was discussing.

[Eyrie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Vote for your worst 90 minutes as a Scotland fan?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45832167

Some horrific results in there, but I'm sure they missed a few. For example, Costa Rica and Iran - they'll be in the 'other'.

I've voted three times for Levein, becaue he deserves to win something in his career.

[theonlywayisup]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It bemuses me why anyone claims to be shocked by Scotland's ineptitude any more.

The 'decline' is not some recent phenomenon. It goes back decades, hence why we find ourselves in such a tinpot group in a tinpot tournament - and why we struggle even in such lowly company. Blaming McLeish is nonsense. We've been through about half a dozen managers since we last qualified for something and all have failed to get us to a major tournament. Even the dumbed-down Nations League, which is the equivalent of reducing the pass mark in an exam from 50% to 15% to try and give some of the serial non-qualifiers a much easier qualification route (quite how that's supposed to improve the quality of the football is questionable to say the least) seems too challenging for us.

I'm not sure what folk actually expect of Scotland any more. Whatever we once brought to the international stage is long gone. I gave up watching them more than a decade ago as it struck me there were better things to do with my time, which looks to have been a wiser decision with each passing year!

Maybe you should read the original post; no-one has said it's a recent phenomenon. Quite the opposite.

[poolman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree with the latter part about the football authorities. The SFA and the clubs are all culpable in their own ways. Our professional game still places an over reilance on physicality at the expense of skill and creativity and this is part of a wider culture that permeates all the way down the chain. The pro youth system has failed too. Has the standard changed or have produced any more high quality players because of it? The social changes you refer to are no different though in any other European nation, it is a culture and facilities issue that stops progress.




I agree Bunberry, I was down at the Jack Kane watching my pals laddie. The place was busy loads of kids and lots of games. Sadly the12’s were playing a side at a much better standard and there were a lot of boys who barely had a kick of a ball- that makes it seems like a miracle they carry on.

When you mention the failure to convert talent into professionalism, I wonder what can be done differently? I,’m not sure how it gets resolved. I watched some equivalent of juvenile football in Spain, all played on astro. It was competative and robust, but there was very little lumping the ball away. The emphasis was on passing, always.

Scotland is still one of the most passionate football nations on this earth. We love the game, watch and play it in huge numbers ( relative to our population). I feel sorry for younger guys who haven’t had the chance to appreciate how much passion the national side created in past decades.

That's good to know

I go back to when I was growing up and living in Bruntsfield, on school hols we played on the links seven days a week, morning, afternoon then at night till dark, your parents always knew where you were and didn't worry

Until I retired recently I worked in Bruntsfield school and I never saw any kids playing football in the links in the holidays or any other time


Also, there is no primary school football league on a Saturday morning any more 🙄

[mjhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No it is mate.....my example of luck was to do with a tournament that Iceland qualified for and we didnt....Euro 2016. Would Iceland have qualified from a group Including ROI Poland and Germany?? Im not sure.

Thing is our squad is full of guys playing in the premiership/championship and top of the SPL. That would suggest that we are producing some good players at least. We dont have that Star player a lot of other countries have but that apart our squad looks as good as a lot of other countries mentioned in this thread.

In other words other countries are doing better with what they have at their disposal. Leaving out Croatia as they always seem to produce top players and team countries like Switzerland regularly qualify. They are blessed with a great team but make the best of what they have. We can list Ireland, Northern Ireland, Iceland etc who have smaller populations and qualify or go close to. We are not getting the best out of our players. The answer is to put a sructured plan in place but there is too much self interest and a lot of players are more interested in their clubs plus the coaches bar Strachan have been woeful.

[Phil MaGlass]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Over here the youth system is excellent. Kids normally start in teams between the ages of 4 and 6 but there's nothing stopping them joining later. All players need to have a player pass and their development is registered from the very start.

Each age group covers a period of 2 years so that the younger kids get to mix it with the older kids and vice versa. The rules of the game are kept very basic at the start and are increased every time the kids reach the next level. The pitches also grow in size every level until the kids are eventually playing 11 v 11 on full size pitches.

Another difference is that the football clubs themselves have a strong social aspect to them. Near enough every village has a football team and every football team has it's own bar/restaurant on site. This means that most of the kids parents get involved on a social level and identify themselves with the club their kids play for. My boy's team are playing Saturdays this year and most of the kids and parents hang around after the game to watch the first or second team play when we have home games. There's also the chance to sit outside the clubhouse with a pint and socialize with other parents whilst your kids are being put through their paces at training twice a week.

I used to play for a city team in Berlin before moving outside the city, my boy now playing for his local team has not only been fantastic for him in his development but has also played a huge role in the whole family integrating quickly into the local community. Any country would do well to look at the German way.

Its the same in Holland to an extent, facilities are great and all fenced off or moated so the neds cant run amok. Great training facilities, all weather and grass pitches, bars/restaurants, even in the small villages they have decent facilities. In the centre of cities there are 5 a side cages for kids to play in, all in all well organised and funded.

[theonlywayisup]

Another embarrassing defeat. We can blame the manager. We can blame the players. But this has been going on for years.

When will those that administer Scottish football start doing something about it.