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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Harper currently playing in Spainís 4th division so not exactly proving them wrong.


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    It's more to do with this reasoning that he's a "luxury player" and has went for a big physical side.


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by theonlywayisup View Post
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    What an abysmal performance last night against Belgium. Yes, I know they're one of the best teams in the world at the moment. Yes, I know we competed okay until the Gordon/McGinn moment of madness.

    For those who grew up watching the teams of the 70s and early 80s, it's very difficult watching such displays. Back then we at least competed against the world's best. We always get the story about the next batch of u18s or u21s that will turn our fortunes around for us only to get worse.

    When will our leaders start to resolve years on wrong decisions?

    I've always thought the decline of Scottish football in the 80s coincided with two actions that changed how football was managed in this country.

    The first being our teacher's decision to cut back on extra curricular activities. Up until then we had school teachers who took time to train and manage football teams. There was no option but to work with the age group you had. In my day, we had training once a week, a match during the week and one at the weekend. The teacher's rarely had their own child in the team, so every one got a fair chance. For the boys, you played as a team and the bond was strong. There was none of this joining another team of things didn't go well for you.

    The second being the Ranger's revolution that allegedly saved Scottish football when Souness started to splash the cash. Up until then you had great sides such as Aberdeen and Dundee United competing in Europe with home grown talent. After that date, teams were more likely to be filled with overseas players many of whom were not that much better than the Scottish players.

    I've got no idea how to correct all that is wrong with Scottish football. We've had initiatives since the early 90s, but it's not working. How are we going to correct this?

    Thoughts?
    Yet another go teachers and schools. Thank God fir that, I was beginning to think we had forgotten that sector to blame. SOME Teachers, not all, stopped the after school clubs in the late 70s.Think about it: the decline also began at the end of the 70s. Even when we managed to qualify for finals, we drew or lost to countries who were not seen to be in our league. It would have taken a generation or two at the very least for the decline to kick in - it wouldnít have happened at the same time. Also, many other sports which teachers took, continued to thrive - the working to rule didnít affect them.
    The main reasons of our decline and lose pace with other nations was the lack of investment in youth football and the facilities available. Increasing traffic meant the street playing ĎTanner baí players, virtually disappeared - nowhere to play. Other entertainment options also kicked in late 70s and 80s - the advent of computer games and more TV football had a hand in the decline. Letís not pick up something we heard or read and pin the blame there, itís lazy philosophising and a lack of understanding of societal change.

  4. #33
    Coaching Staff Tomsk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsCloseHibs View Post
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    Sadly the reason I decided to watch Hibs ladies over Scotland last night. Just extremely difficult to raise any excitement when it comes to the national team as they are rank.
    It's healthy to have other interests outside football.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Ah, sorry I hadnít realised he had been promoted to their A team.


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    Donít think heís anywhere ready for National team level though

  6. #35
    It was foolish to play Belgium and trying to play out from the back instead of our usual game against such teams.
    The result was 3 free goals for Belgium.
    The players will be sharper on Monday as a result.

    I think we have a good number of quality young players.
    Sadly no world beaters but some good to very good players who are still developing.

    Robertson, Tierney, McGinn, McGregor, Fraser, McKenna etc

    We will qualify for the next Euro's.
    However, we will never have a world beating national team.
    Even the 70's and 80's teams that everyone harks back to never got out of a World Cup or Euro group.

  7. #36
    The big question for me-and has been for a number of years-is why can we compete successfully and not look out of place against the best European teams at various age grade levels with players who have mainly come through the SFA system and yet as these players move through pro football they do not develop or even disappear.Strikes me that youth coaching is one of the better parts of the SFA.

  8. #37
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    Poor facilities and poor coaching for youngsters in my view. Look at what Iceland have done and go down that route. Big investment in pitches and a huge supply of top class coaches.

  9. #38
    Deja vu once again...

    Many areas that result in the national team failing...

    Culture including many of our players aren't intelligent enough (many Scottish players can't speak decent English - compare to German players who can often speak 2 languages and from a young age will make better decisions).
    SFA - lack of direction - plan - leadership / many fans have lost faith in those running the game
    League structure based around the Old Firm
    Old boys network still across all levels / Academies - bad advice given - players suffer - drop out game / don't reach potential.

    We don't have any world class players and we won't have any soon. Robertson has improved but World Class - calm down.

    I also don't think we will qualify for a tournament anytime soon.

    Facilities doesn't come into it. It's what being done that does - we don't need to copy Iceland etc - we need our own identity and strategy to suit a revamped model including a better domestic game that the fans deserve.

    I've been saying this since 1998 and still believe we have muppets running our game.

    Compare to...

    Andy Murray / Jamie Murray
    Chris Hoy
    Scottish Women's Football
    Scottish Rugby

    All are / or have performed better due to better structure and support plus athletes who have a brain.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    You laugh but they are 'only' 18 places behind us in the ranking.
    I was not laughing at Sally I was laughing with her it is we who are the laughing stock and the Albanians have every right to think they have every chance on Monday!

  11. #40
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    It's been going on for years, no infrastructure or investment from a woeful SFA who are only intrested in the ugly sisters big bucks, it will never change in my opinion, not in my lifetime anyway.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorrie View Post
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    Poor facilities and poor coaching for youngsters in my view. Look at what Iceland have done and go down that route. Big investment in pitches and a huge supply of top class coaches.
    That would certainly be a help. You only have to go to Switzerland to see that virtually every town has a tennis area after Federers exploits. We need a massive investment in indoor pitches and coaches who coach the game properly. Look at the Croatia side. They have defenders who are brilliant readers of the game, they have midfielders who are very skilful and read the game superbly like modric and the two others who are strong, quick allied to great game awareness. And finally they all fit into the way the team plays. Same with Iceland. We have no set structure from kids to youth to professional. It's let's just hope for the best. Until we have all the coaches making sure kids can do the basics and working on ball skills and game awareness then will will always struggle. Bar Tierney and mcginn who is comfortable getting the ball in a tight space. The players are always changing and we have no set way of playing. Guys like Ryan fraser at Bournemouth looks a cracking player but gets lost in the Scotland team.
    Unless we get rid of dinosaur coaches going for big physical types we will be years behind other teams. Saying a player is a luxury is the mantra of a very poor coach. Was Gascoigne a luxury, sauzee, Laudrup. No wonder we don't get anywhere. I'm sure we'll get another review, a new manager and it will go on and on. The answer is there but we don't want to seem to fix it.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjhibby View Post
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    That would certainly be a help. You only have to go to Switzerland to see that virtually every town has a tennis area after Federers exploits. We need a massive investment in indoor pitches and coaches who coach the game properly. Look at the Croatia side. They have defenders who are brilliant readers of the game, they have midfielders who are very skilful and read the game superbly like modric and the two others who are strong, quick allied to great game awareness. And finally they all fit into the way the team plays. Same with Iceland. We have no set structure from kids to youth to professional. It's let's just hope for the best. Until we have all the coaches making sure kids can do the basics and working on ball skills and game awareness then will will always struggle. Bar Tierney and mcginn who is comfortable getting the ball in a tight space. The players are always changing and we have no set way of playing. Guys like Ryan fraser at Bournemouth looks a cracking player but gets lost in the Scotland team.
    Unless we get rid of dinosaur coaches going for big physical types we will be years behind other teams. Saying a player is a luxury is the mantra of a very poor coach. Was Gascoigne a luxury, sauzee, Laudrup. No wonder we don't get anywhere. I'm sure we'll get another review, a new manager and it will go on and on. The answer is there but we don't want to seem to fix it.
    Good coaches paid properly is the key.
    I coach youth football at u13ís level as a volunteer. We try as often as possible to hire in coaches to help because I know my limitations. Every time we get a good coach in it is obvious immediately the difference it makes. However, getting these guys in is difficult because there are not enough of them.


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  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Wee Effen Bee View Post
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    Yet another go teachers and schools. Thank God fir that, I was beginning to think we had forgotten that sector to blame. SOME Teachers, not all, stopped the after school clubs in the late 70s.Think about it: the decline also began at the end of the 70s. Even when we managed to qualify for finals, we drew or lost to countries who were not seen to be in our league. It would have taken a generation or two at the very least for the decline to kick in - it wouldnít have happened at the same time. Also, many other sports which teachers took, continued to thrive - the working to rule didnít affect them.
    The main reasons of our decline and lose pace with other nations was the lack of investment in youth football and the facilities available. Increasing traffic meant the street playing ĎTanner baí players, virtually disappeared - nowhere to play. Other entertainment options also kicked in late 70s and 80s - the advent of computer games and more TV football had a hand in the decline. Letís not pick up something we heard or read and pin the blame there, itís lazy philosophising and a lack of understanding of societal change.
    Chill man, I wasn't having a go at school teachers.

    I feel passionately that kids should be playing with their schoolmates and not trying to go from one boys team to another.

    As I said there's many causes.

  15. #44
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    Investing in sport facilities is essential in a country like Spain. Almost every new housing development has a new track, field or club house

    built by the developer as a condition of the planning application approval. They have the weather too, of course.

    I truly believe that many young people are not particularly interested in football here. They see it as sectarian and crusty. Why spend £25 sitting in the cold?

    Education is the end game for those with any aspirations.

    The strange thing is that there is a demand for good football for those that look for it eg look at the outstanding attendances at ER and Tynie. We have half a dozen multi

    national cap holders - when have we ever had that?

    Perhaps we just have to accept that Scottish football is no longer insular and go with the flow.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Archie MacPherson gave a talk at the Edinburgh book festival this year. He reckoned that Scotland would never be the "force" it used to be and may never qualify for a world cup again.

    He gave 2 major reasons for this.

    1. The break up of the Soviet Union and

    2. The closure of the pits.
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  17. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Archie MacPherson gave a talk at the Edinburgh book festival this year. He reckoned that Scotland would never be the "force" it used to be and may never qualify for a world cup again.

    He gave 2 major reasons for this.

    1. The break up of the Soviet Union and

    2. The closure of the pits.
    I'm having deja vu

  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theonlywayisup View Post
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    I'm having deja vu


    I hadn't seen this thread but it seemed appropriate to post it here too.
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  19. #48
    Testimonial Due Paisley Hibby's Avatar
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    Used to care about Scotland team but haven't for a while now. International breaks are just an annoying interruption of real football.

  20. #49
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    I went last night to watch Belgium as they are a joy to watch But at Thirty Quid for a friendly wasn't surprised at the Poor Crowd
    Passed on Albania game as just can't get excited about the National Team
    Thought McGinn did ok but he should never of got caught at first goal that was slack The Belgians move the Ball so quick and find players with ease with delicate flicks and first time passing that just cut us open with thier speed and skill
    Both lone strikers struggled Griffiths started game well but seemed to get a knock that then nullified him If he isn't fit for Monday that's a blow Naismith was no great shakes

  21. #50
    The EPL has moved onto a different stratosphere compared to the SPL, in the past, top Scottish players could move to the English top league without noticing much difference in the standards but this has changed drastically in recent years. If players are left to stagnate in the SPL they will never match or get anywhere near the standard that is required at international level. Hardly any EPL club will take a chance on buying from up here and nurturing a talent , even Robertson had to prove himself with Hull first before Liverpool took a chance on him so it can be done but this is few and far between i'm afraid.

  22. #51
    Testimonial Due mjhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Good coaches paid properly is the key.
    I coach youth football at u13’s level as a volunteer. We try as often as possible to hire in coaches to help because I know my limitations. Every time we get a good coach in it is obvious immediately the difference it makes. However, getting these guys in is difficult because there are not enough of them.


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    Exactly but not the nonsense box soccer which is all about pace and strength. We need coaches for goalkeepers defenders and attackers. All players must be comfortable controlling, looking up and being able to hit correctly weighted passes and move to the correct position to receive a pass before pace and power come into. We skip pass the ball control and passing bit then we will get destroyed, like last night, by teams who have all the tools to be top footballers. I'm sure we have the talent. Robertson has shown its there it just needs properly coached. Remember he was rejected as a youngster. Says it all.

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    My pals laddie has just turned 12 and loves playing football. His team have just made the transition to playing 11 a side games. I went along a couple of weekends ago. They were humped 9-0 by a much better organised and coached Spartans team. The laddie had about half a dozen touches of the ball.

    There should be different levels of youth football and the opportunity to carry on playing 7ís should remain an option. Half these boys will be lost to football through boredom and disenchantment by the time their season is over.

  24. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS View Post
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    We should beat Albania.........surely ???
    Really???

  25. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    My pals laddie has just turned 12 and loves playing football. His team have just made the transition to playing 11 a side games. I went along a couple of weekends ago. They were humped 9-0 by a much better organised and coached Spartans team. The laddie had about half a dozen touches of the ball.

    There should be different levels of youth football and the opportunity to carry on playing 7ís should remain an option. Half these boys will be lost to football through boredom and disenchantment by the time their season is over.
    I said a while back ability should play a part in the organisation of youth football as much as age. Group the best 12-14 year olds, as an example, together and let them play each other, then the next tier and so on. If guys are struggling move them down a group, if they are standouts move them up. Having a whole range of abilities of 12 year olds playing against each other just because they are the same age leads to the kind of mismatches you describe and leads to young lads getting bored.

    A structured approach that lead to games being as evenly matched as possible seems to make a lot more sense than 'you were all born in the same year so deal with it'.

  26. #55
    I watched in dismay the Scotland game on tv last night and couldnt believe the difference in class between the teams.

    As has been said previous generations can claim to have seen decent Scotland players in the teams.

    The SFA has been blamed for everything wrong with our game these days, rightly or wrongly!

    Scotland is a small nation of 5m people, when you look at it that London alone has 5m residents it shows just how small we are.

    BUT we have always been able to pull the odd world class sportsman from the hat. I grew up watching Scotland teams with the likes of Denis Law, Joe Jordan, Gordon McQueen, Billy Bremner and the likes strut their stuff in that dark blue jersey i am so proud of.

    To watch recent Scotland teams has been a big disappointment as now you dont have to be Scottish to play for your country. As long as your granny or great granny has a claim to Scottish blood you are in!

    IMHO our demise started around the time an influx of foreign players arrived in our domestic teams and Hibs have had their share too. They have made the game better to watch i admit that but what happens to the young and talented player waiting in the wings?

    The Scotland teams have been starved of young up and coming talent as they cant get a game in their first teams to show their skills.

    The other day i watched an Arsenal team play on tv and they had only two English bred players in their team

    You have only to look at our "big two" with the amount of foreign nationals playing in the Scottish league.

    These players may be of a good standard but our young stars still havent a platform to play on.

    rightly the subject of money and investment gets banded about but where does this come from and where does it go?

    The big thing for me though is how do you get youngsters out of the house and off their ps4 and on to the streets or parks kicking a ball?

    The Oriam in Edinburgh has been built and seems to be well used. The new cycling dome in Glasgow holds many international event. There are premises being build for grass root sport to grow from.

    In my surrounding area a great initiative has blossomed as some dads and their sons meet for the traditional 30 a side game of football at a local park.

    this has seen rising numbers come along and join in. This used to be an Edinburgh classic Sunday around here.

    Life and the way we live our lives has changed but i think those in power in the SFA have to look further than Glasgow and nearer to players parentage than they do!

  27. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    You laugh but they are 'only' 18 places behind us in the ranking.
    You're correct....I'm having a bit on Albania @ 9/2....😉😉

  28. #57
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    It will all be fine.

    I'm sure that once Ernie Walkers Think Tank reports, it will have all the answers we need.

    😂

  29. #58
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    I went to see Henry McLeish at the book festival talking about his review of Scottish football. Was quite good but felt he tiptoed round some of the real issues, although only so much you can cover in an hour.

    John Collins was in the audience and made a point during the questions portion about the real issue being the coaching. That we simply throw bodies at coaching and pat ourselves on the back at the increase in the number of coaches we have. With no real thought or monitoring of the quality of what is being taught. He believed that once coaches get their badges they should continue to be monitored and some sort of rolling 6 monthly validation that they are still teaching the correct things in the correct manner. He was a bit long winded but made a very good point IMO.

  30. #59
    Coaching Staff Tomsk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theonlywayisup View Post
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    I'm having deja vu
    I'm having what Archie's on.

  31. #60
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I said a while back ability should play a part in the organisation of youth football as much as age. Group the best 12-14 year olds, as an example, together and let them play each other, then the next tier and so on. If guys are struggling move them down a group, if they are standouts move them up. Having a whole range of abilities of 12 year olds playing against each other just because they are the same age leads to the kind of mismatches you describe and leads to young lads getting bored.

    A structured approach that lead to games being as evenly matched as possible seems to make a lot more sense than 'you were all born in the same year so deal with it'.
    We have all that at u13 level. There are 4 divisions based on ability.


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