Decline of Scottish National Football Team

[ancient hibee]

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UEFA have a big enough job sorting out our countries sectarian bigots on behalf of our spineless SFA at the moment tbf

When you talk about the SFA you really mean the clubs.They are really the root cause of the current situation.If they wanted to change it they could easily.All it takes is a majority vote.

[bigwheel]

Horrible results..but I think Michael ONeill at NI didn’t win for his first 18 or so games...Clarke should be given time and support to rebuild the side .....

The SFA have failed to rebuild football dev...a clear out there -andnew capabilities would be a worthy move

[cabbageandribs1875]

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When you talk about the SFA you really mean the clubs.They are really the root cause of the current situation.If they wanted to change it they could easily.All it takes is a majority vote.

so therefore it's never going to change, it hurts not having a national team to be proud of

[ancient hibee]

T

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so therefore it's never going to change, it hurts not having a national team to be proud of

Afraid you’re spot on.

[The dalmeny]

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Football in this country is becoming unaffordable for many kids and it’s not right.

My boys football is £25 a month, kit cost about £50 and then there’s the cost of the boots, match plays, summer camps etc.

I’m lucky enough that I can afford it but there’s plenty that can’t spare that amount, especially if people have a couple of kids. The fact the facilities are better now means nothing to the parents that can’t afford to send their kids to these clubs.

I don’t think many primary schools have a team now either as it’s been replaced by these academies.

By comparison for a kid to join my local tennis club it costs £60 for the year and you get free coaching every Saturday morning.

Historically though tennis is the middle class game, it’s changed.

I pay more than 25 a month for my lads football but, including matches, works out at about £1.50 an hour which I feel is pretty good on the basis he’s getting coached in the non match time. However the bottom line is if you can’t afford it you can afford it wether of not it’s a tenner or 50.

it would be nice if we were in a position to give a grant to teams to allow them minimise subs and get more kids playing.


The only other problem would then be where to find the extra pitches and refs you’d need

[bingo70]

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I pay more than 25 a month for my lads football but, including matches, works out at about £1.50 an hour which I feel is pretty good on the basis he’s getting coached in the non match time. However the bottom line is if you can’t afford it you can afford it wether of not it’s a tenner or 50.

it would be nice if we were in a position to give a grant to teams to allow them minimise subs and get more kids playing.


The only other problem would then be where to find the extra pitches and refs you’d need

Exactly, the coaching and facilities are much better now than they used to be and that’s all great, if you can afford it.

I totally get that in the greater scheme of things to lost people £25 a month isn’t a huge amount of money, if you have two or three kids it is though and in a time where more and more families are using food banks surely the authorities have to recognise that sport, not just football should be accessible to all, one way or another.

[The Modfather]

We’re 3 months into a new presidency in the SFA, have we heard anything about what’s going to be different under this regime or what the plan is to turn round the national teams fortunes?

The SFA parallels Westminster IMO, self serving officials more interested in personal gains and their own egos. It’s all the same gravy train they’re on!

[Swedish hibee]

Don't the kids in Scotland get football at school? After school teams?

[The dalmeny]

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Don't the kids in Scotland get football at school? After school teams?

My boy’s playing matches only, all the boys in his team play boys club football. But there no training(to be honest he has no time for it)

[hibbydog]

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Each to their own, but he's talking a lot of sense.

He is. My point is that his opinion has no credibility given that he’s abandoned the national team himself.

[theonlywayisup]

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I pay more than 25 a month for my lads football but, including matches, works out at about £1.50 an hour which I feel is pretty good on the basis he’s getting coached in the non match time. However the bottom line is if you can’t afford it you can afford it wether of not it’s a tenner or 50.

it would be nice if we were in a position to give a grant to teams to allow them minimise subs and get more kids playing.


The only other problem would then be where to find the extra pitches and refs you’d need

I think when Boyd was talking about the "middle class" sport, he wasn't just talking about the money.

I think he mentioned about kids being driven to football matches by their dads, who had to have the time and dedication to take their kids to training and matches. The dads then being their sons biggest critic/supporter, which ever way you want to describe them. He was pointing out that probably half the boys don't really want to play football any way, or at least put in the dedication that you need to be a good footballer.

Whereas the kids Boyd thinks we should be targeting are the kids from the housing schemes, most probably the kids that their fathers don't know / don't care what they get up to during the day. The "rough as ****" kids who would have a certain level of aggression that other kids wouldn't mess with. Now it's all to nice, all to passive - anyone with any aggression would probably be chucked out of the boys club. We've got 4G pitches that no-one can afford to play. We've got "no ball game" signs up preventing boys from playing football.

In my day, there was no organised boys clubs. The only organised football was via the school. We used to have 30 a side games at breaks that then continued after school. In my school team, we had a Scotland internationalist and around 3 or 4 kids who played Highland League to varying standards. I honestly don't recall one game that any dad would come and watch. Not once did I ever get a lift to a match or to football training.

I don't think Boyd is suggesting going back to those days, but the words he said was "the template isn't working guys". I think he's suggesting that we need to get the kids back out playing football with their mates everywhere and anywhere that they can. With the set up we've got now, everything is becoming a barrier to kids developing their raw skills. Kids should be playing with their pals down the street, not being driven miles to attend a boys club 20 miles away in the hope that they get noticed.

Well done Boyd for his rant. It's much needed and about time someone said it.

His ominous summation was that we've not bottomed out yet. I think he's correct.

[theonlywayisup]

Report of Boyd's rant from the Record, copied below:

Former Scotland and Rangers striker Kris Boyd has warned we have still to hit rock bottom.


The legendary goalscorer watched Steve Clarke's side suffer another hammering, this time to Belgium in the 4-0 Euro 2020 qualifying defeat.


But Boyd fears worse could yet come as he surveyed the wreckage of another Hampden loss.


He is worried there are still not enough players coming through and in a no-hold barred verdict the 36-year-old let rip on Sky Sports.

Boyd lashed out at how football has become a middle-class sport as he raged: "Yes we've got Billy Gilmour coming through but there is the same players making mistakes after mistakes.


"We've not hit rock bottom.

"But we're well out of it. The price of football boots, to attend camps - it's a middle class sport. It's worrying how much it costs to play football. Everywhere you see it's no ball game signs. Why? It costs an absolute fortune to play football.


"We're hurting our kids.


"Belgium had a plan. They came over when I did my pro licence. They evolved and got everyone buying into it what they were trying to do.

"Here we have everyone trying to get a bit of it. There are too many organisations. If we don't have everyone buying into it then it could get worse. We've not hit rock bottom."


Boyd blasted the robots coming though the Scottish system and added: "I keep hearing week on week we've got great players but the rest of the world think they're bang average.


"Dries Mertens was too small a guy and could have given up.

"Now he's starring in Serie A. They have fantastic players.


"They're all robots now. Nobody's learning the game now. We don't have any defenders or strikers. Would James McFadden achieve it now?


"I keep saying it but we've still to hit rock bottom."

[hibbydog]

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Report of Boyd's rant from the Record, copied below:

Former Scotland and Rangers striker Kris Boyd has warned we have still to hit rock bottom.


The legendary goalscorer watched Steve Clarke's side suffer another hammering, this time to Belgium in the 4-0 Euro 2020 qualifying defeat.


But Boyd fears worse could yet come as he surveyed the wreckage of another Hampden loss.


He is worried there are still not enough players coming through and in a no-hold barred verdict the 36-year-old let rip on Sky Sports.

Boyd lashed out at how football has become a middle-class sport as he raged: "Yes we've got Billy Gilmour coming through but there is the same players making mistakes after mistakes.


"We've not hit rock bottom.

"But we're well out of it. The price of football boots, to attend camps - it's a middle class sport. It's worrying how much it costs to play football. Everywhere you see it's no ball game signs. Why? It costs an absolute fortune to play football.


"We're hurting our kids.


"Belgium had a plan. They came over when I did my pro licence. They evolved and got everyone buying into it what they were trying to do.

"Here we have everyone trying to get a bit of it. There are too many organisations. If we don't have everyone buying into it then it could get worse. We've not hit rock bottom."


Boyd blasted the robots coming though the Scottish system and added: "I keep hearing week on week we've got great players but the rest of the world think they're bang average.


"Dries Mertens was too small a guy and could have given up.

"Now he's starring in Serie A. They have fantastic players.


"They're all robots now. Nobody's learning the game now. We don't have any defenders or strikers. Would James McFadden achieve it now?


"I keep saying it but we've still to hit rock bottom."

Legendary goal scorer who turned his back on the national team then goes on telly bemoaning the state of our game?

Pass the sick bag

[The dalmeny]

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I think when Boyd was talking about the "middle class" sport, he wasn't just talking about the money. I think he mentioned about kids being driven to football matches by their dads, who had to have the time and dedication to take their kids to training and matches. The dads then being their sons biggest critic/supporter, which ever way you want to describe them. He was pointing out that probably half the boys don't really want to play football any way, or at least put in the dedication that you need to be a good footballer. Whereas the kids Boyd thinks we should be targeting are the kids from the housing schemes, most probably the kids that their fathers don't know / don't care what they get up to during the day. The "rough as ****" kids who would have a certain level of aggression that other kids wouldn't mess with. Now it's all to nice, all to passive - anyone with any aggression would probably be chucked out of the boys club. We've got 4G pitches that no-one can afford to play. We've got "no ball game" signs up preventing boys from playing football. In my day, there was no organised boys clubs. The only organised football was via the school. We used to have 30 a side games at breaks that then continued after school. In my school team, we had a Scotland internationalist and around 3 or 4 kids who played Highland League to varying standards. I honestly don't recall one game that any dad would come and watch. Not once did I ever get a lift to a match or to football training. I don't think Boyd is suggesting going back to those days, but the words he said was "the template isn't working guys". I think he's suggesting that we need to get the kids back out playing football with their mates everywhere and anywhere that they can. With the set up we've got now, everything is becoming a barrier to kids developing their raw skills. Kids should be playing with their pals down the street, not being driven miles to attend a boys club 20 miles away in the hope that they get noticed. Well done Boyd for his rant. It's much needed and about time someone said it. His ominous summation was that we've not bottomed out yet. I think he's correct.

I think that s fair point too though the extract record does give the feeling hes talking about financial rather the social one. d I'm fed up with games against 'rough as **** kids' who do nothing but hoof the ball up the pitch or as their parent sometimes encourage them to 'leave the foot in' It's about getting a happy medium you want an edge but not at the sake of decent football.

[bingo70]

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Legendary goal scorer who turned his back on the national team then goes on telly bemoaning the state of our game?

Pass the sick bag

Doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

Just means he was an arse a few years ago, even then I don’t know the full story as to why he pulled out the Scotland squad, three sides to every story and all that.

[GreenCastle]

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I think when Boyd was talking about the "middle class" sport, he wasn't just talking about the money.

I think he mentioned about kids being driven to football matches by their dads, who had to have the time and dedication to take their kids to training and matches. The dads then being their sons biggest critic/supporter, which ever way you want to describe them. He was pointing out that probably half the boys don't really want to play football any way, or at least put in the dedication that you need to be a good footballer.

Whereas the kids Boyd thinks we should be targeting are the kids from the housing schemes, most probably the kids that their fathers don't know / don't care what they get up to during the day. The "rough as ****" kids who would have a certain level of aggression that other kids wouldn't mess with. Now it's all to nice, all to passive - anyone with any aggression would probably be chucked out of the boys club. We've got 4G pitches that no-one can afford to play. We've got "no ball game" signs up preventing boys from playing football.

In my day, there was no organised boys clubs. The only organised football was via the school. We used to have 30 a side games at breaks that then continued after school. In my school team, we had a Scotland internationalist and around 3 or 4 kids who played Highland League to varying standards. I honestly don't recall one game that any dad would come and watch. Not once did I ever get a lift to a match or to football training.

I don't think Boyd is suggesting going back to those days, but the words he said was "the template isn't working guys". I think he's suggesting that we need to get the kids back out playing football with their mates everywhere and anywhere that they can. With the set up we've got now, everything is becoming a barrier to kids developing their raw skills. Kids should be playing with their pals down the street, not being driven miles to attend a boys club 20 miles away in the hope that they get noticed.

Well done Boyd for his rant. It's much needed and about time someone said it.

His ominous summation was that we've not bottomed out yet. I think he's correct.

Scotland would get more success if they went into the private schools and worked with kids from that set up.

The problem is who would coach them as many coaches in Scotland club and national set up are useless - basically jobs for the boys.

I wonder what rock bottom will be ? When Scotland don’t qualify in the playoffs ?

There is so much wrong with the game in Scotland - getting rid of staff who are employed in the mens game who are useless at their job isn’t one of the biggest challenges.

Also don’t forget Kris Boyd has his own coaching Academy and charges kids to play.

The pay to play model is used in America - seems to have worked well for the US women’s team with them all coming through college. Not saying it’s right but majority of rugby players come from private school backgrounds and they seem to do ok.

[neil7908]

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Legendary goal scorer who turned his back on the national team then goes on telly bemoaning the state of our game?

Pass the sick bag

This. He's just as self serving as the SFA. Not interested in anything he has to say.

It's just like his new found anger at sectarianism - wonder where that was when he was hearing 50k Rangers fans sing their lovely songs when he played for them.

[neil7908]

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Scotland would get more success if they went into the private schools and worked with kids from that set up.

The problem is who would coach them as many coaches in Scotland club and national set up are useless - basically jobs for the boys.

I wonder what rock bottom will be ? When Scotland don’t qualify in the playoffs ?

There is so much wrong with the game in Scotland - getting rid of staff who are employed in the mens game who are useless at their job isn’t one of the biggest challenges.

Also don’t forget Kris Boyd has his own coaching Academy and charges kids to play.

The pay to play model is used in America - seems to have worked well for the US women’s team with them all coming through college. Not saying it’s right but majority of rugby players come from private school backgrounds and they seem to do ok.

Rugby is no comparison to football on the international stage. It's played seriously by about 10 countries and unless your built like a tank you can forget it.

I'd be abandoning the national team entirely if it was full of Tarquins and Percivals who were only there as their parents had enough money to send them to private school.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

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We’re 3 months into a new presidency in the SFA, have we heard anything about what’s going to be different under this regime or what the plan is to turn round the national teams fortunes?

The SFA parallels Westminster IMO, self serving officials more interested in personal gains and their own egos. It’s all the same gravy train they’re on!

Spot on. The parallels are obvious.

[Since452]

Looking at that squad the lack of quality is frightening. McBurnie, MacGillvary, Phillips, Bates and Cooper? Really?

[Hibby Bairn]

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I honestly don't recall one game that any dad would come and watch. Not once did I ever get a lift to a match or to football training.

Ha. So true.

I lived at Silverknowes and played for Hutchison Vale at the end of primary school in 1979 (when juvenile age groups started at age 12) and got the No. 1 bus to and from training and matches.

Imagine that now. Going ALL the way from Silverknowes to Stenhouse on your own in a bus in the dark winter months aged 12. And then walking down that dark and dangerous Fords Road. 😂

[The Spaceman]

We need to give Clarke a lot of time here. He has picked up a total mess and will take a long-term structural change to our system to fix the many, many issues.

[Scorrie]

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We need to give Clarke a lot of time here. He has picked up a total mess and will take a long-term structural change to our system to fix the many, many issues.

I agree but he must be given the authority to make changes

[superfurryhibby]

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Rugby is no comparison to football on the international stage. It's played seriously by about 10 countries and unless your built like a tank you can forget it.

I'd be abandoning the national team entirely if it was full of Tarquins and Percivals who were only there as their parents had enough money to send them to private school.

I hope you're never near a coaching role with kids with that ridiculous attitude.

Too many morons involved in coaching youth football. Lots of middle class kids have parents who are put off by the sheer stupidity of some of the people involved in the game. My eldest played right through boys club age groups and some of the men involved were a disgrace. My two younger boys have never been encouraged to play competitively, I just wouldn't want them exposed to it.

Just in case you want to call me a snowdrop (a term only used by fuds), I can reassure you of my working class credentials. I played for many years at a very good amateur standard. However, I am appalled at the moronic culture that surrounded football when I was a boy and was still prevalent when my eldest played ( my laddie was very talented, attracted pro interest and continues to play at a very decent level), it was fairly sickening at times. That puts people off the game, Tarquins or otherwise.

[Antifa Hibs]

We're a nation of absolute dinosaurs. Coaches at kids level, parents on the sidelines, fans at professional games, all generally utter ****ing clueless in this country who know nothing about the modern game.

[Ozyhibby]

I agree with this. The middle class thing is simplistic nonsense from Boyd.
The SFA have no interest in change which is why Mark Wotte was forced out.


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[Smartie]

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I agree with this. The middle class thing is simplistic nonsense from Boyd.
The SFA have no interest in change which is why Mark Wotte was forced out.


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One of the biggest problems in Scottish football is that we repeatedly listen to slavering like this from Boyd and think he's right.

[1875-Hibernia]

I have first hand experience of the disasters as a footballing nation we face and while I agree with some of what Boys is saying. I think we hit rock bottom a long time ago.

I’ve watched other coaches screaming at 10 year old boys to punt the ball up the pitch to get rid of it - this was at a 5 a side game on Astro turf. I’ve watched other coaches have training sessions that involved very little football work. I’ve also watched young lads be dropped from what can be considered elite youth teams, because they’re not good enough or can’t afford fees. I’ve coached at a team that charged £30 a month but didn’t have to pay any rental fees. I’ve seen football camps cost up to £1000 pounds for two kids for a 5 week programme- in north Edinburgh.

There’s examples of pro youth teams still charging kids in excess of £35 a month + kit fees. Overall, It’s simply a cost factor with very little experience and football in return.

For me - we need to start again. Coaches need to be paid and given as much experience as they possibly can. Kids need to be given more football time and help with fees. School teams need to become a thing again. Free facilities need to happen now.

What doesn’t help is a local parent coaching without any experience. Also not helped is the amount of ex-pros having football academy’s and charging a fortune. It all needs stripped out and kids need to enjoy playing football again. Pro youth teams need looked at it. We need to stop sending kids down south at such an early age to waste away on a bench or be loaned to some lower league teams. We need to stop pandering to the professional clubs. Not just the Glasgow two but all of them.

I can’t watch Scotland games anymore without laughing through the game at how bad a nation we are.

[theonlywayisup]

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For me - we need to start again. Coaches need to be paid and given as much experience as they possibly can. Kids need to be given more football time and help with fees. School teams need to become a thing again. Free facilities need to happen now.

That's been my view for a long time. We need to get boys (and girls) playing with their pals and stop them having to travel 20 miles to join the elite boys team to try and get noticed.

If we need to pay the sports teachers to do it out of normal school hours, then let's do it.

[1875-Hibernia]

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That's been my view for a long time. We need to get boys (and girls) playing with their pals and stop them having to travel 20 miles to join the elite boys team to try and get noticed.

If we need to pay the sports teachers to do it out of normal school hours, then let's do it.

Agreed! I don’t think all the blame lies with the boards though. Imo all clubs and especially the government need to be doing more. Instead they will pay these elite youth clubs to go in to schools and do a training sessions. Which leads to cherry picking.