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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Carheenlea's Avatar
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    Massacre at Ballymurphy (C4 tonight)

    This should be an interesting documentary airing tonight. The inquest is currently ongoing and this film will give viewers a greater understanding of one of the most harrowing events during the Troubles.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.j...mentary-639667

    Massacre at Ballymurphy - Channel 4, 9pm tonight.


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Looking forward to this.


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  4. #3
    And people wonder why some Northern Irish nationalists feel uncomfortable wearing a poppy.....
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  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Carheenlea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    And people wonder why some Northern Irish nationalists feel uncomfortable wearing a poppy.....
    Absolutely. That was a difficult watch from the position of a neutral observer looking back from what is now a relative time of peace and being able to reflect and look back to these difficult and turbulent times to try and get a better understanding of the conflict, let alone those who had had their families torn apart and lost close friends and loved ones.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carheenlea View Post
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    Absolutely. That was a difficult watch from the position of a neutral observer looking back from what is now a relative time of peace and being able to reflect and look back to these difficult and turbulent times to try and get a better understanding of the conflict, let alone those who had had their families torn apart and lost close friends and loved ones.
    I'd forgotten about the thousands who were bussed south after the British Army and the b specials started burning houses to get the nationalists out.

    It was a sad watch, and brought home what happens when the British Army lose control, as they have in many areas.

    I hope the families get some justice, although the pain still lives with them.


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  7. #6
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    I'm gonna catch it on catch-up. But these sort of things are what make me very uncomfortable with the fairly recent overt militarization of remembrance, and every ex-squaddie being seen as some sort of hero. If me and mine were born a couple of hundred miles to the west, that could have been us - in our own country - a sobering thought.

    I almost don't blame the army, they are only doing what they are ordered to do, and ultimately an army is designed to be unthinking, violent and aggressive. But deploying them in the first place was the problem.

    It was perhaps one of Thatcher's cleverest moves to move towards her policy of criminalization and dealing with it as more of a law and order problem.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member NORTHERNHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    And people wonder why some Northern Irish nationalists feel uncomfortable wearing a poppy.....
    It was interesting to hear other serving British Army officers condemn the actions of 1 Para and say that they wanted nothing to do with them. It is a scandal that Ballymurphy is not as high profile as Bloody Sunday. Equally scandalous are the continuing efforts by Arlene Foster to hinder a proper investigation into what happened. I can't see her coming under any pressure to change given that she has the whip hand over Theresa.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I'm gonna catch it on catch-up. But these sort of things are what make me very uncomfortable with the fairly recent overt militarization of remembrance, and every ex-squaddie being seen as some sort of hero. If me and mine were born a couple of hundred miles to the west, that could have been us - in our own country - a sobering thought.

    I almost don't blame the army, they are only doing what they are ordered to do, and ultimately an army is designed to be unthinking, violent and aggressive. But deploying them in the first place was the problem.

    It was perhaps one of Thatcher's cleverest moves to move towards her policy of criminalization and dealing with it as more of a law and order problem.
    Although she enthusiastically embraced it, the criminalisation policy was actually started by the previous Labour government when Merlyn Rees was the NI secretary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Although she enthusiastically embraced it, the criminalisation policy was actually started by the previous Labour government when Merlyn Rees was the NI secretary.
    Yeah fair enough, it's been a while since a studied that era - I stand corrected JMS 😀

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    And people wonder why some Northern Irish nationalists feel uncomfortable wearing a poppy.....
    I'm more surprised that the ex army boys are not all over this thread, standing up for the Brutish Army.

    All quiet on the falls sah!


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  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Although she enthusiastically embraced it, the criminalisation policy was actually started by the previous Labour government when Merlyn Rees was the NI secretary.
    Think it’s fair to say there were probably two phases in terms of ‘softness’ by the UK government. Like you say, there was the soft approach under Wilson. Thatcher was hardline and then shifted tact, which Major and Blair followed
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  13. #12
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I'm more surprised that the ex army boys are not all over this thread, standing up for the Brutish Army.

    All quiet on the falls sah!
    There's nothing anyone can say to defend what went down that day. The order obviously came down from the top to play hardball and the Paras obviously interpreted that in their own special way. It's no coincidence that they were involved in the Bloody Sunday shootings a short while afterwards. To attribute these atrocities carried out by the Paras and with the blessing of the U.K. government with other members of the armed forces is going too far though.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    There's nothing anyone can say to defend what went down that day. The order obviously came down from the top to play hardball and the Paras obviously interpreted that in their own special way. It's no coincidence that they were involved in the Bloody Sunday shootings a short while afterwards. To attribute these atrocities carried out by the Paras and with the blessing of the U.K. government with other members of the armed forces is going too far though.
    At least you've popped your head above the parapet P. The others are very quiet.

    I'm not attributing anything to anyone, except the murderers in the paras who carried out the atrocities.

    I'd have thought the ex army types might have had something to say about it.

    Sergeant Blackman springs to mind though.( I know he was a marine, but you get my drift)

  15. #14
    Testimonial Due One Day's Avatar
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    Very interesting documentary, lets hope the families get some answers

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    Coaching Staff JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day View Post
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    Very interesting documentary, lets hope the families get some answers
    Wouldn't bank on it. Shameful murder of innocents.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    Wouldn't bank on it. Shameful murder of innocents.
    Totally agree. The UK government will always let you hear what IT wants. Not what YOU want to hear. The Westminster Dictatorship still lives on I'm afraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsCloseHibs View Post
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    Totally agree. The UK government will always let you hear what IT wants. Not what YOU want to hear. The Westminster Dictatorship still lives on I'm afraid.
    That's true, but it's true of all sides- the fog of war.

    The provos had a very effective propaganda machine throughout the troubles.

    Not that I'm saying the British army didn't act like ****s, I have no doubt they did. But spin is not unique to them.

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    That's true, but it's true of all sides- the fog of war.

    The provos had a very effective propaganda machine throughout the troubles.

    Not that I'm saying the British army didn't act like ****s, I have no doubt they did. But spin is not unique to them.
    I think that’s right and probably evidenced by the nonsensical speaking ban that UK gov introduced in the eighties. PIRA were pretty hot on comms.

    Media was a very different place then but quite clearly you couldn’t imagine something like that now, or even back when the 24/7 news cycle and readily-available internet kicked in.
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