James Fowler & Ian Murray

[lord bunberry]

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You are not describing reality. It’s a bit like if your Aunty had .... she would be your uncle. Teams like Hamilton and livvy would probably be none league in England. Not sure crowds Brighton and Huddersfield get ? Comparable with us ? Just saw a tweet 15 years ago today we beat them in. Derby at ER. Crowd £14k

That’s completely missing the point though. The reason would be non league is that they don’t have access to the funds that clubs down south have. It’s also a bit disingenuous to use the worst team in the spl as an example.

[CLASS OF 72 -73]

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I’ll be honest, think the comments towards Murray lack a bit of class here. Nothing wrong with what he said.

Might have something to do with Hibee grown players in particular and the rest, moving to the Huns and I make no apologies in agreeing. Guys like Thomson Murray and Cummings while their contribution is respected I can't feel the same about them.

[CMurdoch]

The titles of both stories are misleading clickbait.
What is said by both is plucked out of context and not really a story.

The real story as always is our horrific TV deal.

[McD]

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as long as we get shafted from sky and have to compete on an uneven playing field we will continue to struggle. Why can the teams in the premier not get together about this (and the supporters), maybe with political help, and embarrass the companies doing this to us. I would also like to find out if this is a national thing, i.e. are the people making the decisions as to how the money is awarded are English as that is criminal.

Nothing more infuriating to me about football than this subject.

Yes, it’s a machevellian scheme by the English and broadcasting companies to keep Scottish football down, whilst we fight the good fight against the evil empires.....


we get shafted by our own powers that be, the men at the top of the SFA and SPFL who continually talk our game down, talk about ‘armageddon’, don’t strive for better deals, are only focussed on and bend over backwards to suit the old firm, and aren’t interested in creating a more competitive league in case it upsets the Glasgow 2.

Sky, BT, premier sport, etc, are commercial companies, who will buy a product for as low a price they can, that’s their professional duty. The BBC are a slightly different proposition, but with only a finite amount of money available to them, will give as little as they can to Scottish football who are only too willing to sell themselves short, whilst comparatively the well marketed and highly self valued English premiership demand and receive more.

These organisations aren’t due us anything, they offered a price that our administrators accepted -instead of directing your anger at companies and the English, try looking at the people (mostly Scottish) at the top of Scottish football as the culprits of this situation.

Heres a small example of what I mean. On the last day of the respective seasons, Barcelona were beaten 5-4, Spurs won 5-4, Hibs and rangers drew 5-5. Guess which leagues (and respective press) were proclaiming brilliant swashbuckling entertainment, and which were describing the match as a shambles, defensive disasters, and doom and gloom?

[lucky]

We should not be concerned about what standard our league is. We should be celebrating that our football is the most watched per head of population in Europe. Fans are turning up in big numbers to watch the 5 biggest clubs in our country. This year could see our league become the most competitive it’s been in years. As fans we need to stop looking across the border as the English leagues are completely different to ours because of TV money. Maybe if Scottish football fans stopped there tv subscription to Sky and BT then the tv companies might take notice.

[Austinho]

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Yes, it’s a machevellian scheme by the English and broadcasting companies to keep Scottish football down, whilst we fight the good fight against the evil empires.....

You joke, but it does seem Sky Sports after the Setanta deal and spat the dummy, deliberately kicked our game into the dirt https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.d...r-10130604.amp

TV anchorman Richard Keys remembers when the order came through to “shut down Scottish football - it no longer exists," after the dispute between satellite giants Sky TV and Roger Mitchell.

“It’s a crying shame the way Scottish football is being treated. In fact it’s beyond a crying shame – it’s a disgrace.”

“Vic put something like £60m on the table and the response was, ‘Come back to me when you’re serious’. Vic withdrew the offer and overnight he made it clear we were to stop talking about Scottish football on Sky Sports News which was a disgrace in itself.

“The instruction was, ‘Scottish football doesn’t exist. Shut it down. We don’t talk about it, we’re not interested in it until they come back to the table on our terms’.

[B.H.F.C]

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We should not be concerned about what standard our league is. We should be celebrating that our football is the most watched per head of population in Europe. Fans are turning up in big numbers to watch the 5 biggest clubs in our country. This year could see our league become the most competitive it’s been in years. As fans we need to stop looking across the border as the English leagues are completely different to ours because of TV money. Maybe if Scottish football fans stopped there tv subscription to Sky and BT then the tv companies might take notice.

I don’t think Scottish fans cancelling Sky/BT would be beneficial whatsoever. Nobody would really take any notice and if it did happen, and Sky/BT stopped putting the money in that they do, we’d be even worse off. And, even if it’s no popular to say it with some folk, I enjoy watching English football as well.

Agree with the rest of the post though. There is a lot of good things about Scottish football at the moment and the constant comparisons to England are a bit irrelevant really, given the difference in finances.

[JimBHibees]

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Yes, it’s a machevellian scheme by the English and broadcasting companies to keep Scottish football down, whilst we fight the good fight against the evil empires.....


we get shafted by our own powers that be, the men at the top of the SFA and SPFL who continually talk our game down, talk about ‘armageddon’, don’t strive for better deals, are only focussed on and bend over backwards to suit the old firm, and aren’t interested in creating a more competitive league in case it upsets the Glasgow 2.

Sky, BT, premier sport, etc, are commercial companies, who will buy a product for as low a price they can, that’s their professional duty. The BBC are a slightly different proposition, but with only a finite amount of money available to them, will give as little as they can to Scottish football who are only too willing to sell themselves short, whilst comparatively the well marketed and highly self valued English premiership demand and receive more.

These organisations aren’t due us anything, they offered a price that our administrators accepted -instead of directing your anger at companies and the English, try looking at the people (mostly Scottish) at the top of Scottish football as the culprits of this situation.

Heres a small example of what I mean. On the last day of the respective seasons, Barcelona were beaten 5-4, Spurs won 5-4, Hibs and rangers drew 5-5. Guess which leagues (and respective press) were proclaiming brilliant swashbuckling entertainment, and which were describing the match as a shambles, defensive disasters, and doom and gloom?

Fantastic post.

[Phil MaGlass]

I actually think SKY are missing a trick here, what with the game up here getting more fans through the gates and teams like Hibs, Dons and dare I say it huns putting a better product on the pitch, the game in Scotland is on an upward spiral, with more investment in Scottish fitba SKY could be on a winner. Our game is one of the biggest attended on average in Europe, surely putting live games with full stadiums is more attractive to SKY or other broadcasters than showing half empty to empty stadiums.

[G B Young]

The perception of Scottish football down south remains that it's pretty c*** if what this Motherwell player says is anything to go by:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45218801

He'd come from League One and assumed the Scottish top flight would be a doddle.

Perhaps more interesting when assessing what Scottish football's true level is compared to England were John McGinn's comments about opting for Villa rather than Celtic. He said it's easy to get into a comfort zone in Scottish football and he chose Villa over Celtic because he's "ambitious". I think while the quality of the lower leagues in England may not necessarily be a great deal higher than our top flight, the fact you're playing a far greater variety of teams keeps the game fresher and arguably more interesting. Hence my long-standing backing for a UK league, but I'm aware that's not a view shared by many on here.

[Lago]

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The perception of Scottish football down south remains that it's pretty c*** if what this Motherwell player says is anything to go by:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45218801

He'd come from League One and assumed the Scottish top flight would be a doddle.

Perhaps more interesting when assessing what Scottish football's true level is compared to England were John McGinn's comments about opting for Villa rather than Celtic. He said it's easy to get into a comfort zone in Scottish football and he chose Villa over Celtic because he's "ambitious". I think while the quality of the lower leagues in England may not necessarily be a great deal higher than our top flight, the fact you're playing a far greater variety of teams keeps the game fresher and arguably more interesting. Hence my long-standing backing for a UK league, but I'm aware that's not a view shared by many on here.

Shared by me!

[cleanyman]

Better than what we just witnessed between Cardiff and Newcastle anyway

Wow

[Since90+2]

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I actually think SKY are missing a trick here, what with the game up here getting more fans through the gates and teams like Hibs, Dons and dare I say it huns putting a better product on the pitch, the game in Scotland is on an upward spiral, with more investment in Scottish fitba SKY could be on a winner. Our game is one of the biggest attended on average in Europe, surely putting live games with full stadiums is more attractive to SKY or other broadcasters than showing half empty to empty stadiums.

There's only six teams that get decent crowds though. The other half play to crowds of about 4000 or less.

[jgl07]

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You are not describing reality. It’s a bit like if your Aunty had .... she would be your uncle. Teams like Hamilton and livvy would probably be none league in England. Not sure crowds Brighton and Huddersfield get ? Comparable with us ? Just saw a tweet 15 years ago today we beat them in. Derby at ER. Crowd £14k

Brighton get (capacity?) crowds of over 30,000 most weeks.

Huddersfield pull in 24,000+ crowds which I assume are capacity.

[Sir David Gray]

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I actually think SKY are missing a trick here, what with the game up here getting more fans through the gates and teams like Hibs, Dons and dare I say it huns putting a better product on the pitch, the game in Scotland is on an upward spiral, with more investment in Scottish fitba SKY could be on a winner. Our game is one of the biggest attended on average in Europe, surely putting live games with full stadiums is more attractive to SKY or other broadcasters than showing half empty to empty stadiums.

Quite a few teams in the Scottish Premiership play at stadiums which are mainly empty.

This is how full each club's home stadium was last season based on the average home gates.

Rangers - 96%
Celtic - 92%
Hearts - 91%
Hibs - 88%
Aberdeen - 70%
Ross County - 70%
Hamilton - 58%
Dundee - 50%
Partick Thistle - 47%
Motherwell - 41%
St Johnstone - 36%
Kilmarnock - 29%

The promotion of Livingston won't do much to help that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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The perception of Scottish football down south remains that it's pretty c*** if what this Motherwell player says is anything to go by:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45218801

He'd come from League One and assumed the Scottish top flight would be a doddle.

Perhaps more interesting when assessing what Scottish football's true level is compared to England were John McGinn's comments about opting for Villa rather than Celtic. He said it's easy to get into a comfort zone in Scottish football and he chose Villa over Celtic because he's "ambitious". I think while the quality of the lower leagues in England may not necessarily be a great deal higher than our top flight, the fact you're playing a far greater variety of teams keeps the game fresher and arguably more interesting. Hence my long-standing backing for a UK league, but I'm aware that's not a view shared by many on here.

If there is any justification to a UK league its one big selling point for Scottish fans and players would be the variety … There's barely a club in Scotland's top two divisions I haven't seen Hibs play at least 5 times and most of them considerably more than that, well over 40 or 50 times in fact.

IMO its a fair assessment to say that Scotland's top 5 clubs would at least be competitive in the English championship, it would be six if Dundee Utd weren't such a basket case, with the rest competitive in league 1. With the sort of investment pumped into them as the likes of Watford, Brighton, AFC Bournemouth and Swansea for example there is absolutely no doubt that Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and especially Celtic and Sevco would at least be potential EPL clubs.

But in all honesty this comparing our league to English leagues is purely an academic exercise …. in reality nobody should give a rats ass how Hibs or any other Scottish club measures up to Brentford, Darlington, Portsmouth or dirty Leeds on the park, because they aren't our direct rivals, when there is a UK league they will get my undivided attention.

The time to kick off on this subject is when some no mark tries to say that some poxy EFL club like Peterborough for example is a better 'club' than Hibs because they have more money to spend … richer, maybe, but better? …. never in a million years.

As for what the Motherwell player has to say … I saw on the Steve Sidwell thread somebody trot out the old 'he would rip up our league' chatter …. oh really? ….. If I recall correctly the Scottish Premier league hasn't exactly been all that productive as a retirement home for washed up EFL / EPL has beens.