NHC. EPL small team spending!

[superfurryhibby]

Can anyone explain why the Scottish Tv revenues are so low, even whilst compared to countries like Norway, Greece, Hungary etc. Surely our game has more appeal than those leagues to a broader audience?

Is it a hangover from our failed SPL football fiasco all those years ago?

[GloryGlory]

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Bournemouth spending 2 x our turnover on players. Their stadium holds about 12, 000. Nonsense.

I posted this a few days ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/football...-guide-2016-17

Bournemouth match income £5m but TV income £124m.

Totally bonkers! Clubs like Bournemouth, Swansea and Burnley are not getting much more income from gates than Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen (if you discount a factor because the average ticket prices are higher just because it is the EPL). However, whereas Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are getting £1-2m TV money, the EPL clubs mentioned are each getting well over £100m TV money.


I know our TV deal is awful, but £100m+ a year to drift around the lower reaches of the EPL and make up the fixture list for TV is totally crazy.

[GloryGlory]

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Can anyone explain why the Scottish Tv revenues are so low, even whilst compared to countries like Norway, Greece, Hungary etc. Surely our game has more appeal than those leagues to a broader audience?

Is it a hangover from our failed SPL football fiasco all those years ago?

Because we have rubbish negotiators in charge of our game.

[SirDavidsNapper]

AFC Fylde have bid £150k for Shankland of Ayr United

[Tyler Durden]

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Do you have Sky Sports?

It’s folk in Scotland paying for Sky Sports that helps fund the English teams.

If we started to cancel sky sports they would have to take notice.

No they wouldn’t. This is the logic of Rangers fans to be honest - totally misguided

[Tyler Durden]

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The standard really isn’t getting worse at all. It’s a fantastic league attracting top players from all over the world.

One thing that reduces the appeal to me is the increased number of traditionally smaller teams, Brighton, Bournemouth, Burnley etc. Even if they wouldn’t perform much better the likes of Leeds and Villa and their fam base would bring more to the league.

Clearly it’s part of the game but I struggle to get interested in Watford vs Brighton

[Colr]

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The bubble will burst eventually, and when it happens there will be more than a few clubs that go bust

Can’t see how it would burst. It’s a mix of TV money and debt to wealthy individuals. As long as the wealthy keep getting interest on their debt and they can sell player on to one another, it will continue.

Not so different from the art world. Things are worth what people are prepared to pay for them - people, in this case, being hugely wealthy individuals.

[superfurryhibby]

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Because we have rubbish negotiators in charge of our game.

I suspect the people in charge of our game could probably manage to ask for more cash, there has to be a better reason why our revenue is so low compared to clubs in the leagues I mentioned. Who wants to watch Rosenberg v Molde, or Honved v Ferencvaros, aside from Norweedgies and Hungarians?

[Colr]

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How much does Scottish football get from the current TV deal?

Couple of carrier bag full of empty juice bottles.

[GloryGlory]

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I suspect the people in charge of our game could probably manage to ask for more cash, there has to be a better reason why our revenue is so low compared to clubs in the leagues I mentioned. Who wants to watch Rosenberg v Molde, or Honved v Ferencvaros, aside from Norweedgies and Hungarians?

I hope the next time we negotiate a deal we ask for a realistic price and are prepared to walk away if the money is not forthcoming.

[Halmyre Hibee]

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How much does Scottish football get from the current TV deal?

[superfurryhibby]

How do the Danes and Norweedgies get so much?

Imagine if our clubs got similar, surely we would see an equivalent rise in our teams performance levels in European competition?

[Keyser Sauzee]

Obviously I want Scotland to get more money but not to the detriment of youth coming thru at clubs which I think would happen if we were to receive more tv money.

[Sammy7nil]

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It's not going to go burst whilst Sky and BT are in existence.

The move to streaming may mean Sky or BY go bust first.

[Barman Stanton]

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That just shows how inept the people running out game is. As much as we hate them, the Old Firm game is probably watched more all over the world than any game in the majority of those leagues. There must be a better tv deal to be had out there.

[Paul1642]

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How do the Danes and Norweedgies get so much?

Imagine if our clubs got similar, surely we would see an equivalent rise in our teams performance levels in European competition?

Worth noting the value of their currency. Things cost twice as much over there so with the exception of transfer fees all their costs will in theory be double.

[Onion]

A key advantage in Scotland is that a clubs revenue and spend on players is mainly driven by fan support. Ok Celtic get £££ from CL but on the whole the better players gravitate to the best supported clubs. Look at Hibs. 14k season tickets buys us Neil Lennon and an excellent squad of players. If we had Sky money up here, ticket revenue would be dwarfed and you’d find Livi, Dundee and the likes attracting players on same wages as Hibs, with crowds a third the size. It’s a distortion of the market.

[norhfc]

Although the money in EPL is obscene what annoys me more is the Doncasters and Port Vale’s who despite there low attendances can attract quality players by huge wages, the money filters down through the leagues. Read somewhere the Championship is the 5th richest league in the world. Hibs with average 18000 last year are poppers in comparison. Our top brass really need a better tv deal as I think our league is getting more interesting every year. It needs investment badly.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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How many are going to complain when John McGinn moves for crazy money and we reap the benefit? The money down south is mad, but I think there is a lot of jealousy, there would be very little criticism if football in Scotland was funded by massive TV investment.

It is what it is.

this is true of some people but not others.

i know of people in England who have lost all interest in the premier league because they can’t identify with it anymore. The money is mind boggling and they don’t feel any sort of communal connection to their club that they used to have. Granted they aren’t missed by the clubs when they cancel their season tickets that they’ve had for maybe 30 or 40 years through good times and bad, because there will always be people to replace them, but I still find that sad.

Its why non league and lower league football down south has become more popular recently.

no-one can dispute the quality of the football in the English premier league. But I do feel that something more important is being lost.

while I don’t ever foresee Scotland getting the same sort of investment we should be careful what we wish for.

[EricStoner]

Scotland's figure seems within normal parameters, based on the TV deals in a number of countries on that graphic. The deals in Sweden, Austria & Switzerland - countries with populations of 8 to 10 million - are similar. Combining the words "Portugal" and "football" will get you a reaction internationally. Combining "Scotland" and "football" won't. Is Rangers v. Celtic really any more captivating than Boca v. River?
Comparing any league anywhere to the English Premier League is a long way from being an "apples for apples" comparison.
The bottom line is economics. Scotland is still a largely mono-ethnic and mono-cultural backwater. The percentage of the world's population that knows Scotland exists is surprisingly small. The country attracts little foreign "investment" of the type that flows into London and which makes London the capital of the world. Large numbers of "investors" in London are loaded with "new money." They are from backgrounds that find football attractive.
Traditional European aristocracy "old money" and American "old money" is rarely invested in football. Nor is it invested in gold-plated Lamborghinis. Or at the tables of London's rapidly multiplying casinos.
"Vulgar" is the word that springs to mind.
London is an incredible place. It's the bubble of London's economy that produces the byproduct of the English Premier League bubble.
To say that London's increasing affluence is the result of money-laundering isn't strictly true. However, the UK's ridiculously inept legislation on transparency for offshore companies and its proliferation of tax loopholes means money-laundering on a massive scale is almost certainly easier and more profitable to accomplish via setting-up murky offshore companies and buying property in the UK than any other method. Most of the investment in London is by Russians, Arabs, Malaysians, Chinese - especially Chinese - and other dubious "got rich quick" overseas spivs buying vast quantities of property. Many of them also buy businesses - principally in the leisure sector.
They invest in London because The Party, His Majesty, El Presidente or Comrade Putin can't suddenly enact legislation that greatly devalues - or appropriates😂 - their investment.
Comrade Corbyn or Mayor Sadiq Khan could suggest a massive tax or even a ban on property purchases by foreigners. That's hardly radical. There are lots of places where one must be a citizen, resident, tax-payer or all three in order to buy property.
No such noises coming from those directions though. London's housing crisis continues to escalate. As does the scale of residential property development in prime areas of the English capital. Most of it bought by overseas "businessmen" as an investment. Their kids can stay in it while doing eyewateringly expensive degrees at Imperial College or the London School of Economics - two institutions whose own recent property purchases in South Kensington and Bloomsbury, neither exactly ghettos, have seen them become inner-city suburbs in themselves.
Whilst in London, the "investors" see toys. They like toys. They buy toys. Football clubs are excellent toys. Hours of interactive fun for all the family. These "investors" own companies back home. Marketing their toy through these companies can help recoup the purchase price of the toy or at least contribute towards the toy's running costs.
Of course, it would be a lot better for the planet's economy as a whole if the mega-rich invested their billions in their own countries. London's economy is nice for the Poles, Filipinos, Brazilians, Ghanaians etc. who work for £8.50 per hour serving you coffee in Starbucks or delivering your Domino's pizza. They can send some much needed money home. It would benefit a hell of a lot more working class people in poor countries if the rich people in those countries invested their money in creating wealth (& jobs) back home. Could even invest it in football or other youth/community projects for poor kids... But then that applies equally to those domestic idiots funding Kelty Hearts, Salford City and Billericay Town.
Can't see it happening soon though.
While London continues to get rich on dubious financial practices, the English Premier League will continue to fall into the beady-eyed glances of the culturally diverse selection of the planet's mafiosi who are attracted to London.
The crane numbers on London's skyline suggests Brexit is having as much effect on keeping down invasive parasites as DDT had on keeping down invasive parasites that developed resistance in the 1950s.
While London's bubble keeps growing, the English Premier League bubble is safe.
I've composed this rant on a phone while bouncing about on a train. A bit of time to kill. Hope it makes some sort of sense.

[superfurryhibby]

In response to Eric Stoner........

Scotland is far from being mono ethnic or a mono cultural backwater... we have world known universities, science and technology, musicians, authors, actors....what a cringeworthy statement!

There are no Portuguese teams called River ior Boca and I would suggest that Scotland as a country is known throughout the world, that’s why we attract tourism from across the globe. That in it’s self generates serious economic benefits.


Still baffled how the Danish league generates more than double the cash that ours does. No one seems to be able to explain this. I wonder what the people who run our game would say to that question?

[IGRIGI]

I think the "our game is total ***** but we've got 4 Old Frim derbies a season!!" marketing from the suits explains the TV deal money.

[Colr]

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Yup. That’s a pretty shabby deal the SPL are getting.

[EricStoner]

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In response to Eric Stoner........

Scotland as a country is known throughout the world

Really?
1,000 urban Chinese. All in 1m+ population cities. Randomly selected. Asked if they can point to Scotland on a map.
Sweep. Fiver in each. Pick the number of the 1,000 Chinese who can point to Scotland. Closest takes the pot. You put in your fiver. What number would you go for?
I'd go well below 50.

[EricStoner]

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In response to Eric Stoner........

Scotland is far from being mono ethnic or a mono cultural backwater... we have world known universities, science and technology, musicians, authors, actors

Seriously? Even in Seoul, Kuala Lumpur or Taipei, how many locals wearing English Premier League club shirts would you need to ask, "Can you name a Scottish university?" before you got a correct answer? 100? Musician? You'd be there a year. Author? Let's hope funeral & repatriation arrangements are part of your travel insurance. May as well walk around Inverness asking if anyone could name a leading Indian kabaddi star or a musician from Equatorial Guinea.

[Winston Ingram]

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The bubble will burst eventually, and when it happens there will be more than a few clubs that go bust

I don’t think it will. I can only see it continuing to increase. The domestic money is slowing down but the worldwide money is continuing to rise. Amazon are now involved and once that takes off its going to rocket even further.

On top of that, the NBA, NFL bubble has never burst. They pay bigger wages than the Premier League.

[Winston Ingram]

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In response to Eric Stoner........

Scotland is far from being mono ethnic or a mono cultural backwater... we have world known universities, science and technology, musicians, authors, actors....what a cringeworthy statement!

There are no Portuguese teams called River ior Boca and I would suggest that Scotland as a country is known throughout the world, that’s why we attract tourism from across the globe. That in it’s self generates serious economic benefits.


Still baffled how the Danish league generates more than double the cash that ours does. No one seems to be able to explain this. I wonder what the people who run our game would say to that question?

It generates less purely down to the incompetence of our governing bodies.

All the other bodies talk up their game. Ours does the opposite and believes the only sellable aspect of our game is the Old Firm.

[Gloucester Hibs]

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Seriously? Even in Seoul, Kuala Lumpur or Taipei, how many locals wearing English Premier League club shirts would you need to ask, "Can you name a Scottish university?" before you got a correct answer? 100? Musician? You'd be there a year. Author? Let's hope funeral & repatriation arrangements are part of your travel insurance. May as well walk around Inverness asking if anyone could name a leading Indian kabaddi star or a musician from Equatorial Guinea.

You could easy flip that one on it’s head. Your posting style reminds me of particular previous poster on the Bounce. Hopefully not as he was an erse..

[WhileTheChief..]

Is it down the authorities here or is it simply lack of demand?

Most teams barely get a few thousand to turn up each weekend to watch them.

Where are the hundreds of thousands of armchair fans required to ensure that tv companies pay more?

Te viewing figures for most games here, other than the old firm, are minuscule. In these other countries they have audiences of millions, we simply don’t.

If we did, the tv companies would charge a hell of a lot more for advertising and in return would pay more to show our game.

Scotland has extremely passionate fans about football, but not nearly enough of them.

[WhileTheChief..]

Another point to consider.

BT recently stopped showing the Italian league as they didn’t want to pay more for it.

They don’t show the Norwegian League, or the Slovakian one or whatever. Why? Because there isn’t the interest in them in the UK. We want the German, Italian, Spanish and French leagues.

So BT or Sky pay millions to these countries for the rights to show their leagues. Similarly these other countries pay billions to show the English game.

Which other countires are out there wanting to pay to show the SPFL?

Now you could argue that it’s up to the authorities to make the sales pitch and get these deals but I’d suggest that’s a pretty hard sell when folk living a stones throw from their own stadiums don’t even care!

Its just the way it is. These leagues operate on a different planet to the rest of the game. It won’t end any time soon but it’s basically going to be a cartel of the top 10 or clubs playing each other.

Theyll soon get bored when Madrid win everything each year.

Meanwhile the rest of us throughout Europe can crack on.