Finances

***CropleyWasGod*** · 09-08-2018 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

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Indeed.

Do the accounts detail income from shop sales?

No. Our Turnover isn't detailed in any way.

Hence the constant and repetitive debates about comparing ours with that of other clubs, which are largely meaningless IMO.

***Hibbyradge*** · 09-08-2018 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by danhibees1875

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Nope - unless I'm completely missing it.

For y/e 30/6/17, total revenue was £7.7m, up from £7.0m and they cite the increase as being due to "increased ST sales, participation in Europe, and higher retail income" - so it's in there somewhere and noteable enough to be worthy of commentary.

That sounds like a summary.

Isn't there a more detailed breakdown?

If not, why are folk saying we'll find out how much we got for SJM in next year's accounts?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 09-08-2018 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

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That sounds like a summary.

Isn't there a more detailed breakdown?

If not, why are folk saying we'll find out how much we got for SJM in next year's accounts?

The SJM money isn't included in Turnover. It's shown separately as a "gain on Intangible Assets".

That figure, too, is shown as a total.... so, given that we also sold Murray in this season, we will have to make a guess on the SJM element of the gain.

**ballengeich** · 09-08-2018 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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The SJM money isn't included in Turnover. It's shown separately as a "gain on Intangible Assets".

That figure, too, is shown as a total.... so, given that we also sold Murray in this season, we will have to make a guess on the SJM element of the gain.

Does the entire gain appear in the year of the transfer or is it split over several years if payment is in instalments?

***danhibees1875*** · 09-08-2018 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

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That sounds like a summary.

Isn't there a more detailed breakdown?

If not, why are folk saying we'll find out how much we got for SJM in next year's accounts?

The summary is all the detail you get on turnover unfortunately.

Ask Jamie Marwick nicely for a look at their trial balance at the next AGM.

**SirDavidsNapper** · 09-08-2018 01:01 PM

Aye but tick tock, 5-1 etc

***CropleyWasGod*** · 09-08-2018 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by ballengeich

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Does the entire gain appear in the year of the transfer or is it split over several years if payment is in instalments?

That I am not sure about.

From an accounting purist point of view, I would think that the entire basic fee would be included at the date of the deal (ie, for SJM, in 2018/19). If that is payable in instalments, then the unpaid element would be shown as a debtor.

However, if the clubs agree that each instalment is the subject of a separate invoice (and, hence, tax-point), they would be included in the appropriate years. ie spread over those years

Add-ons would be included in the year they are paid, since we can't know how much they will be until they arise.

**ballengeich** · 09-08-2018 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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That I am not sure about.

From an accounting purist point of view, I would think that the entire basic fee would be included at the date of the deal (ie, for SJM, in 2018/19). If that is payable in instalments, then the unpaid element would be shown as a debtor.

However, if the clubs agree that each instalment is the subject of a separate invoice (and, hence, tax-point), they would be included in the appropriate years. ie spread over those years

Add-ons would be included in the year they are paid, since we can't know how much they will be until they arise.

Thanks

***Caversham Green*** · 09-08-2018 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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That I am not sure about.

From an accounting purist point of view, I would think that the entire basic fee would be included at the date of the deal (ie, for SJM, in 2018/19). If that is payable in instalments, then the unpaid element would be shown as a debtor.

However, if the clubs agree that each instalment is the subject of a separate invoice (and, hence, tax-point), they would be included in the appropriate years. ie spread over those years

Add-ons would be included in the year they are paid, since we can't know how much they will be until they arise.

I would argue that if it is a definite fee it should all be recognised in the year it arose regardless of the invoicing procedure - it would be accrued if invoices hadn't been raised. If the instalments are in any way conditional then the income wouldn't be recognised until the conditions had been met (e.g. number of appearances, promotion etc.)

Sorry if this is getting too exciting for some of you.

***CropleyWasGod*** · 09-08-2018 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

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I would argue that if it is a definite fee it should all be recognised in the year it arose regardless of the invoicing procedure - it would be accrued if invoices hadn't been raised. If the instalments are in any way conditional then the income wouldn't be recognised until the conditions had been met (e.g. number of appearances, promotion etc.)

Sorry if this is getting too exciting for some of you.

I am almost tumescent.

And I would agree with you.... big boy.....

And then there's the VAT tax point. More, right there....

***Hibbyradge*** · 09-08-2018 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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I am almost tumescent.

And I would agree with you.... big boy.....

And then there's the VAT tax point. More, right there....

***Caversham Green*** · 09-08-2018 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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I am almost tumescent.

And I would agree with you.... big boy.....

And then there's the VAT tax point. More, right there....

Don't get me started on VAT tax points.

Please?

Anyway, isn't the idea of VAT on transfers a bit pointless? Villa will pay the VAT on SJM's transfer, Hibs will pay it to HMRC and Villa will claim it back - no gain to anyone. I think there's a case for them being outwith the scope....but that's probably for another epic thread.

***CropleyWasGod*** · 09-08-2018 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

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Don't get me started on VAT tax points.

Please?

Anyway, isn't the idea of VAT on transfers a bit pointless? Villa will pay the VAT on SJM's transfer, Hibs will pay it to HMRC and Villa will claim it back - no gain to anyone. I think there's a case for them being outwith the scope....but that's probably for another epic thread.

You're such a ****ing tease.

***Hibbyradge*** · 09-08-2018 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

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Don't get me started on VAT tax points.

Please?

Anyway, isn't the idea of VAT on transfers a bit pointless? Villa will pay the VAT on SJM's transfer, Hibs will pay it to HMRC and Villa will claim it back - no gain to anyone. I think there's a case for them being outwith the scope....but that's probably for another epic thread.

This is awesome.