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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    I think I the keyword in this whole fiasco is ACTORS. i.e. they are bleeding actors - not the real thing. A typical ott reaction we are coming to expect these days from minority groups. To me, this sort of nonsense is actually detrimental to their cause.
    Fair enough - yet for me that sort of view you take lacks empathy ...


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Fair enough - yet for me that sort of view you take lacks empathy ...
    Fair enough x 2 however, what I see in this is a form of self pity.
    It's that conflicting view point again (a-la terrorist/ freedom fighter).
    I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree, BW.
    Last edited by snooky; 15-07-2018 at 01:41 PM.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Fair enough - yet for me that sort of view you take lacks empathy ...
    Tell a white actor who has lost out on a traditionally white part, like MacBeth, that he isn't allowed to play a trans sexual, because he isn't one.

    If you feel minorities should be allowed positive discrimination, fair enough. If you think that everyone should have the same chances, then you may have a problem.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member NORTHERNHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    The history of films is littered with memorable performances from actors who were second choice. For all we know, Johansson herself was second choice.

    That all said, the publicity that has already been created, before production has even started, has to have helped the film's visibility and the size of its eventual audience.

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    I can't recall any hoohah over the Danish Girl? Only positive comments with regards to the sensitivity of the lead performance. No doubt that the frame of reference has moved on both for the good and for the bad but that said, I wonder what a studio executive would say today, if the script for The Crying Game dropped on his or her desk?

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Tell a white actor who has lost out on a traditionally white part, like MacBeth, that he isn't allowed to play a trans sexual, because he isn't one.

    If you feel minorities should be allowed positive discrimination, fair enough. If you think that everyone should have the same chances, then you may have a problem.
    Chic. I suspect you and I look at the world through different lenses...minorities get less opportunity than ďwhite actorsĒ...my view is that if you want an authentic portrayal of life with disabilities..then actively seek out actors who have some Life experience of this if you can find someone fit for the part that way, then Iíd actively encourage it...it will better represent their voice in the world of entertainment...if you canít fair enough , widen the selection pool. Equally if you choose not to seek out people with that life experience- then thatís their free choice - but it is a missed opportunity for me

    Minorities arenít playing with an equal card deck in any workplace ...to get diversity represented you have create a diverse sample of the population to choose from .

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Chic. I suspect you and I look at the world through different lenses...minorities get less opportunity than ďwhite actorsĒ...my view is that if you want an authentic portrayal of life with disabilities..then actively seek out actors who have some Life experience of this if you can find someone fit for the part that way, then Iíd actively encourage it...it will better represent their voice in the world of entertainment...if you canít fair enough , widen the selection pool. Equally if you choose not to seek out people with that life experience- then thatís their free choice - but it is a missed opportunity for me

    Minorities arenít playing with an equal card deck in any workplace ...to get diversity represented you have create a diverse sample of the population to choose from .
    I appreciate your stance and can't object to it. If it's about positive discrimination and that helps,fair enough.

    Funny thing is, I went to see Everyman at the National a couple of years back

    One of the actors had dwarfism. There comes a part where the entire cast dress up as piles of rubbish to illustrate that whoever you are you live the same **** lives

    All the piles rubbish ,except one, were the same height. Can you see the irony?

    Speaking to the actors after, even they thought it was stupid

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member Radium's Avatar
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    Not sure that my opinion is fully formed around what actors are chosen and suspect that a lot of it will be case by case.

    In this one it seems strange that SJ is receiving such high profile criticism when we have just had a movie released where the male star impersonates a lower leg amputee.

    Suspect it will be driven the hot topic of the day.

    Saw this and thought it was a reasonable take on an actors craft

    https://twitter.com/bbccomedy/status...740974080?s=21


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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I appreciate your stance and can't object to it. If it's about positive discrimination and that helps,fair enough.

    Funny thing is, I went to see Everyman at the National a couple of years back

    One of the actors had dwarfism. There comes a part where the entire cast dress up as piles of rubbish to illustrate that whoever you are you live the same **** lives

    All the piles rubbish ,except one, were the same height. Can you see the irony?

    Speaking to the actors after, even they thought it was stupid
    I'm not really suggesting positive discrimination..that would suggest I want to engineer someone suffering discrimination to get the role....I'm suggesting that it would be better practice to ensure (in this case) trans actors were actively considered, and given the chance...that directors create a diverse pool to choose from. If they then don't get the role.then so be it...the claims in this case is that trans actors were not getting auditions, let alone the part...




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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    I'm not really suggesting positive discrimination..that would suggest I want to engineer someone suffering discrimination to get the role....I'm suggesting that it would be better practice to ensure (in this case) trans actors were actively considered, and given the chance...that directors create a diverse pool to choose from. If they then don't get the role.then so be it...the claims in this case is that trans actors were not getting auditions, let alone the part...




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    Was it because the director was prejudiced against trans sexuals, or against crap actors?

    If you're up against Scarlett Johansson who, I believe, is still box office, and the only part of note you have is in [edit: a really obscure film], who's going to get the gig.
    Last edited by Chic Murray; 16-07-2018 at 09:30 AM.

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by 7 Up View Post
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    The main complaint seems to be that trans actors aren't seriously considered for non-trans roles, yet specifically trans roles are routinely taken by non-trans actors, such as Scarlett Johansson. There's a bit of a double standard there and that's what's being criticised as far as I can understand.
    But presumably there are far less transgender actors/actresses in the world than there are non transgender. The better and high profile actors and actresses are largely non transgender.

    I donít get the problem.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    There is a thing in theatre just now, called Colour Blind Casting. The concept is that the best actor for the part gets the gig.

    It extends to people with disabilities too.

    I don't understand why someone who is pretending to be someone else had to be the same as that person.

    An own goal from the trans lobby, I'd say.
    Can work really well.

    I saw Julius Caesar recently with Cassius played by a woman. It was easily the best version of the play Iíve seen and worked much better with Brutus than Iíve seen with male actors.

    Similarly, Mimi in La Boheme played by a black singer is very much more effective that the usual white singers.

    The female Henry V got great reviews mind you so did Maxine Peake doing Hamlet but I felt it was a bit of a French and Saunders style performance.

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Can work really well.

    I saw Julius Caesar recently with Cassius played by a woman. It was easily the best version of the play Iíve seen and worked much better with Brutus than Iíve seen with male actors.

    Similarly, Mimi in La Boheme played by a black singer is very much more effective that the usual white singers.

    The female Henry V got great reviews mind you so did Maxine Peake doing Hamlet but I felt it was a bit of a French and Saunders style performance.
    Wonder why there was no moaning about the roles not going to men? Highlights why 'positive discrimination' is a bit of a joke imo.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    Wonder why there was no moaning about the roles not going to men? Highlights why 'positive discrimination' is a bit of a joke imo.

    I guess that is because the definition of positive discrimination is for those who are being discriminated against. White Male Actors don't fall in to this category.

    Perhaps more importantly, Trans actors are not asking for Positive Discrimination. They are challenging the fact that as they are not being considered for straight roles, why aren't they being actively pursued for roles such as this one? They are asking for fairness and a more open approach to opportunities.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Can work really well.

    I saw Julius Caesar recently with Cassius played by a woman. It was easily the best version of the play Iíve seen and worked much better with Brutus than Iíve seen with male actors.

    Similarly, Mimi in La Boheme played by a black singer is very much more effective that the usual white singers.

    The female Henry V got great reviews mind you so did Maxine Peake doing Hamlet but I felt it was a bit of a French and Saunders style performance.
    I agree, although I felt a bit stupid at a performance of A Tale of Two Cities. Sydney Carton was played by a white actor, and Charles Darnay (supposedly his double) was played by a black actor. At one point, Carton says, "does this man look like me". I thought it was a joke, much later the penny dropped that the only difference between them was the colour of their skin and that in practically every other aspect, they had the same build and features.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I agree, although I felt a bit stupid at a performance of A Tale of Two Cities. Sydney Carton was played by a white actor, and Charles Darnay (supposedly his double) was played by a black actor. At one point, Carton says, "does this man look like me". I thought it was a joke, much later the penny dropped that the only difference between them was the colour of their skin and that in practically every other aspect, they had the same build and features.
    I was at that and you’re right it was utterly silly but I guess they were making a point about immigrants. Just not very well.

    The whole play mis-fired quite a lot. Fortunately, it was rained off half way through, then again when I rebooked, so I’ve got two tickets for this year to use up.

    That said, I would rather go to something where they have tried something different and not quite pulled it off than some more staid and predictable performance. Scottish actor was quite good (can’t remember his name) but he is also in Macbeth at the National which mis-fires in a similar way. I’ll avoid him in future. Too white and male anyway!!

  17. #46
    [QUOTE=bigwheel;5466476]I guess that is because the definition of positive discrimination is for those who are being discriminated against. White Male Actors don't fall in to this category.

    Perhaps more importantly, Trans actors are not asking for Positive Discrimination. They are challenging the fact that as they are not being considered for straight roles, why aren't they being actively pursued for roles such as this one? They are asking for fairness and a more open approach to opportunities.[/QUOTE

    I understand your point, but discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether it is seen as positive.

    If we are advocating trans roles for trans people, then surely that should mean men get male roles?

  18. #47
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    [QUOTE=beensaidbefore;5466966]
    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    I guess that is because the definition of positive discrimination is for those who are being discriminated against. White Male Actors don't fall in to this category.

    Perhaps more importantly, Trans actors are not asking for Positive Discrimination. They are challenging the fact that as they are not being considered for straight roles, why aren't they being actively pursued for roles such as this one? They are asking for fairness and a more open approach to opportunities.[/QUOTE

    I understand your point, but discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether it is seen as positive.

    If we are advocating trans roles for trans people, then surely that should mean men get male roles?
    Lol. Does that not almost always happen ??

  19. #48
    [QUOTE=bigwheel;5467002]
    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    Lol. Does that not almost always happen ??
    Not according to the post i originally replied to. Although in the majority of cases it does.

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Pantomime horses should be banned. There are plenty unemployed real ones available for the part. No fair!

  21. #50
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    Without appearing glib, I noticed a poster for a Rebus stage adaptation coming to The Kings starring Charles Lawson in the title role. A fine performer no doubt but my first thought was Ďthereís clearly a shortage of Edinburgh actors then!í

  22. #51
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    I notice that the new lesbian Batwoman is to be played by a straight blonde actress.

    Surely they could have found a ginger actress for the role. Discrimination which affects opportunities for Scottish actresses!!

  23. #52
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    I recently re-watched the 70s cinematic classic Taxi Driver, featuring an Oscar-winning performance in the lead role from Robert De Niro.

    Despite the quality of his acting, it left a rather sour taste in the mouth to realise a genuine cabbie hadn't been selected for the role, or possibly even considered

    Shame on you Mr Martin Scorsese, shame indeed.
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  24. #53
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    Sir

    If it was as simple as only giving parts to people who have life experience of their role, I wouldn't be where I am today.

    M. Mouse, Burbank.

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