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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    Our season ticket money has helped bring through Scott Brown, Thompso, Whittaker, Fletcher, Riordan and O'connor, and this year Porteous and Shaw.

    How many ladies will ever make it to the team that play in the SPFL?
    I believe the phrase is "Have a little patience" G.


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    Our season ticket money has helped bring through Scott Brown, Thompso, Whittaker, Fletcher, Riordan and O'connor, and this year Porteous and Shaw.

    How many ladies will ever make it to the team that play in the SPFL?
    So for close to a decade we spent money on a youth team that contributed only Hanlon and Stevenson as first team regulars. The rest of the money went on a few players who dropped down a level after playing a couple of seasons for the first team and a lot of players who didn't even manage that for us.

    We have a successful Ladies team that contributes to how positively I feel about being a Hibs fan in the same way that the youths' double last season or winning the Scottish Cup does. Or indeed the money spent on maintaining the stadium to a good standard rather than only the bare minimum to satisfy health & safety, or the money spent on running East Mains when we could be running round Arthur's Seat.

    There is a lot more to Hibs than just the eleven players on the park that you want to support.

    And we needed a lot more than your money and mine combined if we wanted to keep McGeouch, so do we have enough money to stand still in the men's game?

    I actually agree with you that our Ladies team shouldn't be professional, but for a different reason. Unless the Ladies game up here goes semi-pro, then there is little point to having a professional team facing amateurs.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyrie View Post
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    So for close to a decade we spent money on a youth team that contributed only Hanlon and Stevenson as first team regulars. The rest of the money went on a few players who dropped down a level after playing a couple of seasons for the first team and a lot of players who didn't even manage that for us.

    We have a successful Ladies team that contributes to how positively I feel about being a Hibs fan in the same way that the youths' double last season or winning the Scottish Cup does. Or indeed the money spent on maintaining the stadium to a good standard rather than only the bare minimum to satisfy health & safety, or the money spent on running East Mains when we could be running round Arthur's Seat.

    There is a lot more to Hibs than just the eleven players on the park that you want to support.

    And we needed a lot more than your money and mine combined if we wanted to keep McGeouch, so do we have enough money to stand still in the men's game?

    I actually agree with you that our Ladies team shouldn't be professional, but for a different reason. Unless the Ladies game up here goes semi-pro, then there is little point to having a professional team facing amateurs.
    I am not against Hibs ladies football team, just how its funded. I couldnt give a toss about the team, i dont look for their results and i dont care if the win or lose.

    I think every lady/girl who wants to play football should play football. All i care about is the team i have followed all my life, and a youth set up has over the years brought through some fantastic players that have played for the club, and earnt us money when they left.

    Once women start to do this, then by all means fund them, but i dont feel any more positive or less positive about this team because of the womans results.

    At the start we were promised they would not need funded other than the odd set of strips, now its contracts and wages they need.

    All for what, players who will never represent the team i support?

    Whats next, a stadium, their own training centre?

    They need to support themselves financially, not have it taken from funds that should be available for the mens team.
    Last edited by blackpoolhibs; 14-07-2018 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceinawhile View Post
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    Think Brownlie will be away down south soon too.
    Wouldnít surprise me as she is a very good player
    This is how it feels

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny HFC View Post
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    Who cares
    Another lurking Jambo just gives himself away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    I am not against Hibs ladies football team, just how its funded. I couldnt give a toss about the team, i dont look for their results and i dont care if the win or lose.

    I think every lady/girl who wants to play football should play football. All i care about is the team i have followed all my life, and a youth set up has over the years brought through some fantastic players that have played for the club, and earnt us money when they left.

    Once women start to do this, then by all means fund them, but i dont feel any more positive or less positive about this team because of the womans results.

    At the start we were promised they would not need funded other than the odd set of strips, now its contracts and wages they need.

    All for what, players who will never represent the team i support?

    Whats next, a stadium, their own training centre?

    They need to support themselves financially, not have it taken from funds that should be available for the mens team.
    Well at least that's a better response than "Who cares" - but only just in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby View Post
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    Well at least that's a better response than "Who cares" - but only just in my opinion.
    And mine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    I am not against Hibs ladies football team, just how its funded. I couldnt give a toss about the team, i dont look for their results and i dont care if the win or lose.

    I think every lady/girl who wants to play football should play football. All i care about is the team i have followed all my life, and a youth set up has over the years brought through some fantastic players that have played for the club, and earnt us money when they left.

    Once women start to do this, then by all means fund them, but i dont feel any more positive or less positive about this team because of the womans results.

    At the start we were promised they would not need funded other than the odd set of strips, now its contracts and wages they need.

    All for what, players who will never represent the team i support?

    Whats next, a stadium, their own training centre?

    They need to support themselves financially, not have it taken from funds that should be available for the mens team.
    Do you accept that there is any correlation between the success of Hibs Ladies or Girls/Women's football in general and the relevant health of the club? Access to and acceptance of the female game does I believe directly benefit the first team.

    The more that Hibs is seen as aspirational and inclusive the more people (of both genders) will come to watch the undoubted pinnacle of the game at the club, the mens first team. You'd have to be blind to not see the growth of girls in the support over the last 5 years or so, not-so-oddly in direct correlation with a surge in the female game in Scotland and the South East in particular over the same period.

    Your oft repeated mantra of "not a penny of my money on anything but the first team" is clear - you don't see Hibs as anything other than the first team. So should anything be spent on projects like "Fit Fans"? Should anyone be employed at the club in roles relating to community engagement? Are you happy with money being spent on social media that doesn't have a direct and measurable impact on the first team?

    I think your thinking is limited, and no I'm not suggesting that Hibs pay professional wages to compete with teams in England, but to compartmentalise the club in the way you do is wrong.

  11. #40
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    Its a difficult one

    I am proud of Hibs Ladies, have been to watch them and always look out for their results and their media coverage and my daughter is mates with their captain.

    I want them to continue to do well and prosper and there is no doubt they have some very good players.

    One of the games of football I have enjoyed most in years was their home Champions League game against Bayern where although they got thumped, Bayern were just a joy to watch, truly the beautiful game.

    I have no doubt that their existence and success brings tangible benefits to Hibs not least in the number of women and girls who now attend games

    I am happy Hibs offer them facilities and support them modestly through as I understand it kit etc.

    Having said all of that I doubt I am ready to take money out the playing budget to offer their players contracts.

    I hope the women's game goes from strength to strength and Hibs remain at the pinnacle of it and that in time it can generate in its own right sufficient monies for these women to be properly rewarded for their talent.

    Unfortunately though like the men's game there is a food chain and like the men's team, it is inevitable that their better players will be pursued and more often that not caught by teams further up the food chain.

    I am totally ignorant of their fund raising activities but maybe I would be prepared to fund them lightly as I do HSL and KFK by regular contribution to help them progress.

    I don't know if this is something that is possible or that others may also be interested in doing to help the ladies team without "damaging" the men's team

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
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    Do you accept that there is any correlation between the success of Hibs Ladies or Girls/Women's football in general and the relevant health of the club? Access to and acceptance of the female game does I believe directly benefit the first team.

    Nope, we were pish and had pish crowds until we won that cup, that is the reason crowds are up, not having a womens team.If there are so many women wanting to watch football, why dont they go and watch the womens team too?

    No bugger goes to watch them?

    The more that Hibs is seen as aspirational and inclusive the more people (of both genders) will come to watch the undoubted pinnacle of the game at the club, the mens first team. You'd have to be blind to not see the growth of girls in the support over the last 5 years or so, not-so-oddly in direct correlation with a surge in the female game in Scotland and the South East in particular over the same period.

    Again that is nonsense, women have been going to watch us ever since i can remember, in fact my mother took me to more games than my dad. Count me in as blind.

    Your oft repeated mantra of "not a penny of my money on anything but the first team" is clear - you don't see Hibs as anything other than the first team. So should anything be spent on projects like "Fit Fans"? Should anyone be employed at the club in roles relating to community engagement? Are you happy with money being spent on social media that doesn't have a direct and measurable impact on the first team?

    Its a difficult one, i disagree with quite a few box ticking exercises the club are involved in, so yes i am not happy with certain initiatives we are partake in.

    I think your thinking is limited, and no I'm not suggesting that Hibs pay professional wages to compete with teams in England, but to compartmentalise the club in the way you do is wrong.
    What is next though, i have watched from the beginning of this, and see little by little how more is being needed, and more and more will be wanted, for what in my opinion is little gain. I certainly dont see any gain, and thats why they need to be self sufficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRHibs View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    Nope, we were pish and had pish crowds until we won that cup, that is the reason crowds are up, not having a womens team.If there are so many women wanting to watch football, why dont they go and watch the womens team too?

    No bugger goes to watch them?

    Again that is nonsense, women have been going to watch us ever since i can remember, in fact my mother took me to more games than my dad. Count me in as blind.
    I think you're interpreting my point to suit your view and railing against a strawman. Clearly the cup win and the better football are the key reasons for the vast majority of increase in attendances. I asked if you accepted if there was any correlation between an increase in the interest and participation in the girls/women's game and the increase in crowds, in particular an apparent rise in women attending football. In the same way as you point to an example of being taken by your Mum, I can point to girls I have coached in the past now being regular attenders at senior men's games at Hibs, Hearts, Falkirk and Linlithgow Rose. If they hadn't played, they wouldn't have gone. As the female game is publicised, normalised and accepted, the interest in football from girls increases. This has to be a good thing

    For the sake of picking a number, if playing for Hibs Girls or being Hibs minded and pestering parents to go see the team in the SPFL has added even as few as ten bodies through the gate every week, that's probably a minimum of £5K to the club, a lot less than is spent on the Women's team by the club.

    As for "why don't they go to watch the women's team", like you, most people prefer the mens game. I can't see why this would change any time soon. However, as the game is improved - and it has improved dramatically over the last ten years - interest will continue to increase and crowds too. It'll find its level, but as a core Scottish footballing institution, Hibs are doing absolutely the right thing to back and promote it while its developing to reap the rewards in the future for both the mens and womens first teams.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    Its a difficult one, i disagree with quite a few box ticking exercises the club are involved in, so yes i am not happy with certain initiatives we are partake in.
    Fair play for your honesty, but your view of such initiatives as "box-ticking" is suggestive of you having a very different view of what being part of Hibernian is compared to me, and it would seem, the club.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    What is next though, i have watched from the beginning of this, and see little by little how more is being needed, and more and more will be wanted, for what in my opinion is little gain. I certainly dont see any gain, and thats why they need to be self sufficient.
    At the very base of this, do you honestly think that Rod and Leean don't put a very real business focus on this? The club is not a charity, but I see your view of the club as being nothing but the first team to the exclusion of pretty much everything else as being limited, old-fashioned and ultimately counter-productive to the goal of a successful Hibs mens first team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
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    I think you're interpreting my point to suit your view and railing against a strawman. Clearly the cup win and the better football are the key reasons for the vast majority of increase in attendances. I asked if you accepted if there was any correlation between an increase in the interest and participation in the girls/women's game and the increase in crowds, in particular an apparent rise in women attending football. In the same way as you point to an example of being taken by your Mum, I can point to girls I have coached in the past now being regular attenders at senior men's games at Hibs, Hearts, Falkirk and Linlithgow Rose. If they hadn't played, they wouldn't have gone. As the female game is publicised, normalised and accepted, the interest in football from girls increases. This has to be a good thing

    For the sake of picking a number, if playing for Hibs Girls or being Hibs minded and pestering parents to go see the team in the SPFL has added even as few as ten bodies through the gate every week, that's probably a minimum of £5K to the club, a lot less than is spent on the Women's team by the club.

    As for "why don't they go to watch the women's team", like you, most people prefer the mens game. I can't see why this would change any time soon. However, as the game is improved - and it has improved dramatically over the last ten years - interest will continue to increase and crowds too. It'll find its level, but as a core Scottish footballing institution, Hibs are doing absolutely the right thing to back and promote it while its developing to reap the rewards in the future for both the mens and womens first teams.




    Fair play for your honesty, but your view of such initiatives as "box-ticking" is suggestive of you having a very different view of what being part of Hibernian is compared to me, and it would seem, the club.




    At the very base of this, do you honestly think that Rod and Leean don't put a very real business focus on this? The club is not a charity, but I see your view of the club as being nothing but the first team to the exclusion of pretty much everything else as being limited, old-fashioned and ultimately counter-productive to the goal of a successful Hibs mens first team.
    What an excellent post, well done.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
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    I think you're interpreting my point to suit your view and railing against a strawman. Clearly the cup win and the better football are the key reasons for the vast majority of increase in attendances. I asked if you accepted if there was any correlation between an increase in the interest and participation in the girls/women's game and the increase in crowds, in particular an apparent rise in women attending football. In the same way as you point to an example of being taken by your Mum, I can point to girls I have coached in the past now being regular attenders at senior men's games at Hibs, Hearts, Falkirk and Linlithgow Rose. If they hadn't played, they wouldn't have gone. As the female game is publicised, normalised and accepted, the interest in football from girls increases. This has to be a good thing

    For the sake of picking a number, if playing for Hibs Girls or being Hibs minded and pestering parents to go see the team in the SPFL has added even as few as ten bodies through the gate every week, that's probably a minimum of £5K to the club, a lot less than is spent on the Women's team by the club.

    As for "why don't they go to watch the women's team", like you, most people prefer the mens game. I can't see why this would change any time soon. However, as the game is improved - and it has improved dramatically over the last ten years - interest will continue to increase and crowds too. It'll find its level, but as a core Scottish footballing institution, Hibs are doing absolutely the right thing to back and promote it while its developing to reap the rewards in the future for both the mens and womens first teams.




    Fair play for your honesty, but your view of such initiatives as "box-ticking" is suggestive of you having a very different view of what being part of Hibernian is compared to me, and it would seem, the club.




    At the very base of this, do you honestly think that Rod and Leean don't put a very real business focus on this? The club is not a charity, but I see your view of the club as being nothing but the first team to the exclusion of pretty much everything else as being limited, old-fashioned and ultimately counter-productive to the goal of a successful Hibs mens first team.
    Agree.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
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    I think you're interpreting my point to suit your view and railing against a strawman. Clearly the cup win and the better football are the key reasons for the vast majority of increase in attendances. I asked if you accepted if there was any correlation between an increase in the interest and participation in the girls/women's game and the increase in crowds, in particular an apparent rise in women attending football. In the same way as you point to an example of being taken by your Mum, I can point to girls I have coached in the past now being regular attenders at senior men's games at Hibs, Hearts, Falkirk and Linlithgow Rose. If they hadn't played, they wouldn't have gone. As the female game is publicised, normalised and accepted, the interest in football from girls increases. This has to be a good thing

    For the sake of picking a number, if playing for Hibs Girls or being Hibs minded and pestering parents to go see the team in the SPFL has added even as few as ten bodies through the gate every week, that's probably a minimum of £5K to the club, a lot less than is spent on the Women's team by the club.

    As for "why don't they go to watch the women's team", like you, most people prefer the mens game. I can't see why this would change any time soon. However, as the game is improved - and it has improved dramatically over the last ten years - interest will continue to increase and crowds too. It'll find its level, but as a core Scottish footballing institution, Hibs are doing absolutely the right thing to back and promote it while its developing to reap the rewards in the future for both the mens and womens first teams.

    As i have said a hundred times, i am 100% for women playing football, its a wonderful game for EVERYONE who wants to play it.

    Although once again i get back to them being self sufficient. Now that we are losing our best players to richer clubs, what is obvious to me is they will now want more, more of everything.

    Its a slippy slope where more and more resources will come out of the club that i support, and i'm against this.

    I'm not against anyone fund raising for them, or even the club organising it.



    Fair play for your honesty, but your view of such initiatives as "box-ticking" is suggestive of you having a very different view of what being part of Hibernian is compared to me, and it would seem, the club.

    No worries, not everyone thinks the same.




    At the very base of this, do you honestly think that Rod and Leean don't put a very real business focus on this? The club is not a charity, but I see your view of the club as being nothing but the first team to the exclusion of pretty much everything else as being limited, old-fashioned and ultimately counter-productive to the goal of a successful Hibs mens first team.
    I am not against exclusion of everything bar the first team, i'm against funding a football team who will never provide a single player for the team i support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
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    I take it Arnot and Smith will now be full time professionals?
    Not sure what sort of wages would be on offer at that level, pretty sure I heard that if you were English and playing in that league then you got a healthy wage but it was capped?
    Its not a healthy wage but itís a wage. Far too much though if you are BH and worried it might damage the menís team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    I am not against Hibs ladies football team, just how its funded. I couldnt give a toss about the team, i dont look for their results and i dont care if the win or lose.

    I think every lady/girl who wants to play football should play football. All i care about is the team i have followed all my life, and a youth set up has over the years brought through some fantastic players that have played for the club, and earnt us money when they left.

    Once women start to do this, then by all means fund them, but i dont feel any more positive or less positive about this team because of the womans results.

    At the start we were promised they would not need funded other than the odd set of strips, now its contracts and wages they need.

    All for what, players who will never represent the team i support?

    Whats next, a stadium, their own training centre?

    They need to support themselves financially, not have it taken from funds that should be available for the mens team.
    We canít make money on the Players if they arenít under contract. If they were they would have much more of a chance to self fund. Hibs arenít interested in this though as they seem more concerned with upsetting some of our blinkered fans. The sport is growing at a rate of knots down south. Scotland being left behind as usual.

  20. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    We canít make money on the Players if they arenít under contract. If they were they would have much more of a chance to self fund. Hibs arenít interested in this though as they seem more concerned with upsetting some of our blinkered fans. The sport is growing at a rate of knots down south. Scotland being left behind as usual.
    I must be blinkered as well. Because if Hibs were directing funds towards anything that didnít have an impact on what I pay a lot of money to watch, I wouldnít be particularly pleased. Hibs arenít rich enough to do that and Iím glad they arenít interested in doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    I must be blinkered as well. Because if Hibs were directing funds towards anything that didnít have an impact on what I pay a lot of money to watch, I wouldnít be particularly pleased. Hibs arenít rich enough to do that and Iím glad they arenít interested in doing so.
    So we do that already with 100s of community ďinitiativesĒ. My point was in order for the ladies team to make money the players need to be on contracts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    So we do that already with 100s of community ďinitiativesĒ. My point was in order for the ladies team to make money the players need to be on contracts.
    Pay money at the gate for every home game, raise funds like every other club does, and the money this brings in can pay them a wage.

  23. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    So we do that already with 100s of community ďinitiativesĒ. My point was in order for the ladies team to make money the players need to be on contracts.
    Most businesses do likewise as they have targets around social responsibility and so on. Hibs donating to the community is to be expected and the recipients will be not for profit organisations. Hibs shouldnít be donating to the ladies team to allow them to benefit financially at the detriment of the club itself.

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
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    Its not a healthy wage but itís a wage. Far too much though if you are BH and worried it might damage the menís team.
    He's not alone. Amongst 13,000 season holders, God knows how many Shareholders, HSL contributors, sponsors, advertisers and backers you'll be one of a couple of dozen that give a toss about Ladies football. I have 4 women in my ticket network who can't stand the thought. Hibs aren't a Professional Ladies Football Club anymore than they are a cricket club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggy Pope View Post
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    He's not alone. Amongst 13,000 season holders, God knows how many Shareholders, HSL contributors, sponsors, advertisers and backers you'll be one of a couple of dozen that give a toss about Ladies football. I have 4 women in my ticket network who can't stand the thought. Hibs aren't a Professional Ladies Football Club anymore than they are a cricket club.
    The reason Hibernian Football Club exists, primarily, is to provide an entertainment for people who want the men's first team to be successful. I completely understand that for many, the women's game is of no interest for any number of reasons. I don't think anyone who is interested or involved in that side of the sport would have any qualms about that, and as long as there is an avoidance of sexist bollocks would take a stance of "no problem, whatever floats your boat".

    However, in order for the SPFL team to succeed, the need fans through the turnstiles. One way of doing that is presenting Hibs as an open, inclusive and community driven club, Being involved with the women's side of the game raises the profile of the club with girls, and makes "playing for Hibs" as aspirational for girls as it is for boys. The number of registered female players has more than doubled in the last 5-6 years, and the South East Region has shown the biggest increase, and the increase is the biggest amongst younger girls - if I recall correctly its something like 5000 now in the South East. These girls must be seen as future fans through the gate. I mentioned earlier that, very roughly, an extra ten bodies through the gate every week adds £5K+ to the clubs coffers. I susepct the number is a fair bit higher than that. For Hibs not to back women's football would be shoot ourselves in the foot.

    Also, the "couple of dozen" you mention is somewhat undermined by the attendance at the Bayern game. And you're right, we aren't a cricket club, but we are a football club.

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