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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Dan Sarf's Avatar
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    The Decline & Fall of Tika-Taka?

    Oh I do hope so...

    "Three teams have averaged more than 65 per cent possession at the 2018 World Cup: Spain (74.7 per cent), Germany (72.0 per cent) and Argentina (66.0 per cent). All three struggled in the group stage, and are now out of the competition."
    D. Telegraph.


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  3. #2
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Sarf View Post
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    Oh I do hope so...

    "Three teams have averaged more than 65 per cent possession at the 2018 World Cup: Spain (74.7 per cent), Germany (72.0 per cent) and Argentina (66.0 per cent). All three struggled in the group stage, and are now out of the competition."
    D. Telegraph.
    Absolutely with you on this one Dan. One of the most boring forms of football ever seen.

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member Thecat23's Avatar
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    Iíve said it for ages, you can have all the possession you like but if the ball isnít going forward or into the goal you arenít going to win. Silly little triangle passes along the back 4 do nothing.

    You can though still play good passing football but moving it quickly up the park. Belgium for me done this and the game last night was very good. Both playing passing football while trying to get up the park quickly.

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    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecat23 View Post
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    Iíve said it for ages, you can have all the possession you like but if the ball isnít going forward or into the goal you arenít going to win. Silly little triangle passes along the back 4 do nothing.

    You can though still play good passing football but moving it quickly up the park. Belgium for me done this and the game last night was very good. Both playing passing football while trying to get up the park quickly.
    At times the French movement of the ball was spellbinding I thought. The long, long slow passages in between I could have done without.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    Goals change games.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member McSwanky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Sarf View Post
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    Oh I do hope so...

    "Three teams have averaged more than 65 per cent possession at the 2018 World Cup: Spain (74.7 per cent), Germany (72.0 per cent) and Argentina (66.0 per cent). All three struggled in the group stage, and are now out of the competition."
    D. Telegraph.
    Hear here.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecat23 View Post
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    Iíve said it for ages, you can have all the possession you like but if the ball isnít going forward or into the goal you arenít going to win. Silly little triangle passes along the back 4 do nothing.

    You can though still play good passing football but moving it quickly up the park. Belgium for me done this and the game last night was very good. Both playing passing football while trying to get up the park quickly.
    Spain didn't exactly struggle with at as their central philosophy thought did they? Three consecutive tournaments, by far the most successful international side in my lifetime. And Barca weren't bad either.

    I don't understand why people have to be so extreme and black and white. Tiki taka at the time was revolutionary, and changed the way football is played. When done well, it was as close to unbeatable as I've seen. When done badly, it is just, well, bad.

    The same could be said of current vogue for quick counters, which when done well (Belgium, man city) are devastating, but when done badly are really just a defensive long ball game (hearts...😁).

    The history of fitba shows that it constantly evolves. It is ten years since Barca and Spain started their ascendancy, so It is not surprising it has evolved and people work out how to counter it. The same as happened with all forms of football, from Scots inventing passing instead of dribbling, to catenaccio and offside traps, total football etc.

    France last night were good, but were also very defensive and reactive. Tiki taka when done well, was the most proactive and positive style of football I have seen. And it was never about keeping possession for the sake of it.

    Also worth pointing out that the teams mentioned above, Spain have just left an era of unparalleled domination, and Germany and Argentina contested the last world cup final.

  9. #8
    When the German sides destroyed the Spanish sides a few years back in the champions league the decline started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
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    When the German sides destroyed the Spanish sides a few years back in the champions league the decline started.
    Agreed - they showed how to counter it effectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Absolutely with you on this one Dan. One of the most boring forms of football ever seen.
    the introduction of the "false number 9"

  12. #11
    Sounds like I may be in the minority but I loved watching Barcelona and Spain 2008-2012 when Tika Taka peaked imo.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by yonder1875 View Post
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    Sounds like I may be in the minority but I loved watching Barcelona and Spain 2008-2012 when Tika Taka peaked imo.


    Tika Taka done right was amazing to watch at times. Guardiolas Barcelona team were just brilliant at their best.
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  14. #13
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Spain didn't exactly struggle with at as their central philosophy thought did they? Three consecutive tournaments, by far the most successful international side in my lifetime. And Barca weren't bad either.

    I don't understand why people have to be so extreme and black and white. Tiki taka at the time was revolutionary, and changed the way football is played. When done well, it was as close to unbeatable as I've seen. When done badly, it is just, well, bad.

    The same could be said of current vogue for quick counters, which when done well (Belgium, man city) are devastating, but when done badly are really just a defensive long ball game (hearts...😁).

    The history of fitba shows that it constantly evolves. It is ten years since Barca and Spain started their ascendancy, so It is not surprising it has evolved and people work out how to counter it. The same as happened with all forms of football, from Scots inventing passing instead of dribbling, to catenaccio and offside traps, total football etc.

    France last night were good, but were also very defensive and reactive. Tiki taka when done well, was the most proactive and positive style of football I have seen. And it was never about keeping possession for the sake of it.

    Also worth pointing out that the teams mentioned above, Spain have just left an era of unparalleled domination, and Germany and Argentina contested the last world cup final.
    Saved me posting, agree with every word.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Tika Taka done right was amazing to watch at times. Guardiolas Barcelona team were just brilliant at their best.
    Without doubt the best football team I ever seen play, in my opinion. When they utterly dismantled Madrid and won 5-0, back when David Villa was there, is one of my favourite games of all time. Messi masterclass, Xavi on the scoresheet, Ramos losing the plot completely.

    Harsh to write-off the style of play as boring because a few teams that keep possession have been knocked out of the World Cup. Not every team that holds onto the ball play 'Tiki-Taka'.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    Without doubt the best football team I ever seen play, in my opinion. When they utterly dismantled Madrid and won 5-0, back when David Villa was there, is one of my favourite games of all time. Messi masterclass, Xavi on the scoresheet, Ramos losing the plot completely.

    Harsh to write-off the style of play as boring because a few teams that keep possession have been knocked out of the World Cup. Not every team that holds onto the ball play 'Tiki-Taka'.
    Me too, definitely the best team I have watched in my lifetime. Can't forget about Puyol at centre half, the guy was immense.

    One game from that Barcelona era that I'll always reference was the Champions League final against Man United at Wembley, where Barca won 3-1. But the score line didn't really highlight the gulf on the sides. Rio Ferdinand done an interview on BT Sport talking about that game talking how he was never close enough to Messi to even give him a kick.

  17. #16
    Having possession above 65% does not mean a side is playing tiki taka.
    To say that the sides mentioned at this world cup (Germany,Argentina,Spain) played tiki taka and for them to be held up as proof that that system has been found out isn't right imo. The levels Spain, Barcelona (08-12) achieved were phenomenal but they also had phenomenal players who were capable of playing that style to the point where they were basically untouchable. I agree that it was eventually countered but that also coincided with the break up of those sides with new players and managers who couldn't live up to the previous dominance. Passing for passing sake with no creativity and purpose is dull and easy to defend against, that's why those countries got papped out early doors, not because they supposedly played tiki taka.

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  18. #17
    Testimonial Due SanFranHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    Without doubt the best football team I ever seen play, in my opinion. When they utterly dismantled Madrid and won 5-0, back when David Villa was there, is one of my favourite games of all time. Messi masterclass, Xavi on the scoresheet, Ramos losing the plot completely.

    Harsh to write-off the style of play as boring because a few teams that keep possession have been knocked out of the World Cup. Not every team that holds onto the ball play 'Tiki-Taka'.
    Was that Jose's first match in charge against Barcelona? Madrid were unbeaten, at the top.....

    I recall thinking at the time "Simply the best game I have ever seen". Was 5 going on 12.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8wOjk0D3Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8wOjk0D3U

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranHibs View Post
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    Was that Jose's first match in charge against Barcelona? Madrid were unbeaten, at the top.....

    I recall thinking at the time "Simply the best game I have ever seen". Was 5 going on 12.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8wOjk0D3Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8wOjk0D3U
    That's the one Still thoroughly enjoy the highlights every time they appear on the wee sky sports programmes to this day.

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member Sergio sledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Spain didn't exactly struggle with at as their central philosophy thought did they? Three consecutive tournaments, by far the most successful international side in my lifetime. And Barca weren't bad either.

    I don't understand why people have to be so extreme and black and white. Tiki taka at the time was revolutionary, and changed the way football is played. When done well, it was as close to unbeatable as I've seen. When done badly, it is just, well, bad.

    The same could be said of current vogue for quick counters, which when done well (Belgium, man city) are devastating, but when done badly are really just a defensive long ball game (hearts...😁).

    The history of fitba shows that it constantly evolves. It is ten years since Barca and Spain started their ascendancy, so It is not surprising it has evolved and people work out how to counter it. The same as happened with all forms of football, from Scots inventing passing instead of dribbling, to catenaccio and offside traps, total football etc.

    France last night were good, but were also very defensive and reactive. Tiki taka when done well, was the most proactive and positive style of football I have seen. And it was never about keeping possession for the sake of it.

    Also worth pointing out that the teams mentioned above, Spain have just left an era of unparalleled domination, and Germany and Argentina contested the last world cup final.
    Great post! At its peak, Tika-Taka was incredible and was never about keeping the ball just for the sake of it.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member Dan Sarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    Great post! At its peak, Tika-Taka was incredible and was never about keeping the ball just for the sake of it.

    Fair point.

    Maybe we need another name for the "pat it about at the back until we all fall asleep" style of football that evolved from Tika-Taka?

    Any suggestions?

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    That's the one Still thoroughly enjoy the highlights every time they appear on the wee sky sports programmes to this day.
    Probably one of the greatest ever games (non Hibs) I saw, was simply a masterclass in football and will be a game I remember for the rest of my life, it was that good.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Sarf View Post
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    Fair point.

    Maybe we need another name for the "pat it about at the back until we all fall asleep" style of football that evolved from Tika-Taka?

    Any suggestions?
    The English Premier League

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Keekaboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Sarf View Post
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    Fair point.

    Maybe we need another name for the "pat it about at the back until we all fall asleep" style of football that evolved from Tika-Taka?

    Any suggestions?


    Mowbray-ball?

  25. #24
    Testimonial Due SanFranHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keekaboo View Post
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    Mowbray-ball?
    Stubbs-ball. McCoist "I thought we were playing Barcelona" after the Petrofac Cup. Although the next game against them, (3-1?), we had a good mix. tika-taka and quick final balls to Malonga/Cummings.

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member Keekaboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanFranHibs View Post
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    Stubbs-ball. McCoist "I thought we were playing Barcelona" after the Petrofac Cup. Although the next game against them, (3-1?), we had a good mix. tika-taka and quick final balls to Malonga/Cummings.

    Yeah, there were a few games like that. I think I prefer the more direct style favoured by Lennon.

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member Dan Sarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Sarf View Post
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    Fair point.

    Maybe we need another name for the "pat it about at the back until we all fall asleep" style of football that evolved from Tika-Taka?

    Any suggestions?

    Ticka-Tocka?

  28. #27
    Coaching Staff Haymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    Great post! At its peak, Tika-Taka was incredible and was never about keeping the ball just for the sake of it.
    Correct.

  29. #28
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Sarf View Post
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    Fair point.

    Maybe we need another name for the "pat it about at the back until we all fall asleep" style of football that evolved from Tika-Taka?

    Any suggestions?
    ****ty patter? The play in Spain is mainly rather plain? Diva Espana? Boreusrepublik Deutschland? Don't play a false No 9 for me Argentina?That's all I've got.

    Glad to see the back of it. I always found it monotonous to watch. It seemed to work quite well though, until it suddenly didn't.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Spain didn't exactly struggle with at as their central philosophy thought did they? Three consecutive tournaments, by far the most successful international side in my lifetime. And Barca weren't bad either.

    I don't understand why people have to be so extreme and black and white. Tiki taka at the time was revolutionary, and changed the way football is played. When done well, it was as close to unbeatable as I've seen. When done badly, it is just, well, bad.

    The same could be said of current vogue for quick counters, which when done well (Belgium, man city) are devastating, but when done badly are really just a defensive long ball game (hearts...😁).

    The history of fitba shows that it constantly evolves. It is ten years since Barca and Spain started their ascendancy, so It is not surprising it has evolved and people work out how to counter it. The same as happened with all forms of football, from Scots inventing passing instead of dribbling, to catenaccio and offside traps, total football etc.

    France last night were good, but were also very defensive and reactive. Tiki taka when done well, was the most proactive and positive style of football I have seen. And it was never about keeping possession for the sake of it.

    Also worth pointing out that the teams mentioned above, Spain have just left an era of unparalleled domination, and Germany and Argentina contested the last world cup final.
    Great post. Couldnt agree more.

    When Spain beat Italy in the 2012 Euros i felt it was as close to football to perfection as youre likely to see.

    Time moves on though and coaches and players work out to counter the tactics.

    Thats where Spain have gone wrong. No plan B, just stubbornly sticking to that style.
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  31. #30
    Genuinely anyone who didnít enjoy the football Spain and Barcelona played between 2008-2012 and saying theyíre glad to see the back of it is away with the fairies. Mental.

    The two greatest sides youíll ever see, club and country. If you donít enjoy watching that then Iíd suggest finding a different sport.

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