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Thread: England Semi

  1. #331
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon's Lip View Post
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    They don't have to fight a governing body that is hell-bent on maintaining a duopoly.
    Correct. In that case youth development should be taken as being a write-off regards them. I've been hearing noise from them since immediately after the Argentina 78 debacle. During that tournament they showed they couldn't run a menage so they're best ignored. No one can argue that whatever attempts they've made in the last 40 years have done anything good or even something approaching competent. They, as an institution, are useless dicks.

    That would leave the govt or some private money to provide the means to improve the game. Private money people lack all altruism these days unless its attached to a tax-break scheme/scam ao nothing doing there. There are no Carnegies around.

    I don't think the govt are all that interested in football or even understands that it can be a positive thing in a countries culture. A nation wide programme would produce players, education in terms of health and just let kids let of steam. Don't think they have appetite to get involved though.

    In short I'm not too optimistic.


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  3. #332
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    Supporting your national team should be the default position of every Scottish football fan, when they cant do that, and they take great delight when we lose, its a bloody disgrace and they get the team they deserve.
    I’ll play devils advocate here.
    Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
    Discuss.
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  4. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    Correct. In that case youth development should be taken as being a write-off regards them. I've been hearing noise from them since immediately after the Argentina 78 debacle. During that tournament they showed they couldn't run a menage so they're best ignored. No one can argue that whatever attempts they've made in the last 40 years have done anything good or even something approaching competent. They, as an institution, are useless dicks.

    That would leave the govt or some private money to provide the means to improve the game. Private money people lack all altruism these days unless its attached to a tax-break scheme/scam ao nothing doing there. There are no Carnegies around.

    I don't think the govt are all that interested in football or even understands that it can be a positive thing in a countries culture. A nation wide programme would produce players, education in terms of health and just let kids let of steam. Don't think they have appetite to get involved though.

    In short I'm not too optimistic.
    What an excellent post.
    The only private individual I can think is Tom Hunter & there is no way he would get involved in the current set up, as for the Govt they don't give damn about football or sport in general unless there is a photo opportunity involved. What legacy did Scotland get from the Glasgow Commonwealth games ? Answers on a postcard.

  5. #334
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    I’ll play devils advocate here.
    Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
    Discuss.
    Oooft. Hadn't thought of it that way.

  6. #335
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    I’ll play devils advocate here.
    Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
    Discuss.
    Naw, yer just a dafty.

  7. #336
    @hibs.net private member hibee_nation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    They didn't 'blow it'. They went into the tournament with expectations probably lower than for any England side at a major tournament. Few would have expected them to get further than the last 16 so they had a very good tournament and ultimately lost out to a more experienced and stronger side. Credit to them.
    They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.
    45 AND RISING

  8. #337
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    Naw, yer just a dafty.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  9. #338
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    I’ll play devils advocate here.
    Maybe the Tartan Army get the team they deserve. Decades of mismanagement and dismal failure only enlivened by the occasional shock result against one of the world giants. If Scotland were a club side the fans would have been demanding change years ago. The Tartan Army were content to watch mediocre pish on the park as long as they were the centre of attention off it.
    Discuss.
    That's why I stopped going. I don't trust the SFA with the national side or in their part of the promotion of the game from any angle at all, as well as development.

  10. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_nation View Post
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    They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.
    They were the 2nd youngest team in The World Cup.
    They at least have the genuine potential to improve and to go on and not just compete with the best in the world but realistically win an actual tournament.

    Feeling quietly smug from the comfort of your amchair in Scotland is all very well, but what do you advocate our national team can do to get anywhere near the present England side in terms of quality?
    What do you advocate our national team can do to not just comfortably qualify for the world cup (as they did) but get to the semi-finals (as they did) of the next World Cup?

  11. #340
    Testimonial Due Big_Franck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon's Lip View Post
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    They were the 2nd youngest team in The World Cup.
    They at least have the genuine potential to improve and to go on and not just compete with the best in the world but realistically win an actual tournament.

    Feeling quietly smug from the comfort of your amchair in Scotland is all very well, but what do you advocate our national team can do to get anywhere near the present England side in terms of quality?
    What do you advocate our national team can do to not just comfortably qualify for the world cup (as they did) but get to the semi-finals (as they did) of the next World Cup?
    Starting to think that poster was right about you and the Scotland In Union forum the other day. Very weird on a Scottish football forum to highlight 'they' when referring to England, and 'our' when referring to Scotland in the way you have just done.

    You do know this isn't a political forum, right?
    Last edited by Big_Franck; 12-07-2018 at 09:55 PM.

  12. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Franck View Post
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    Starting to think that poster was right about you and the Scotland In Union forum the other day. Very weird on a Scottish football forum to highlight 'they' when referring to England, and 'our' when referring to Scotland in the way you have just done.

    You do know this isn't a political forum, right?
    I highlighted the "They" to mimic the poster who first referred England as "they". It was aimed at that poster...Not to make a special case for England.

  13. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Franck View Post
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    Starting to think that poster was right about you and the Scotland In Union forum the other day. Very weird on a Scottish football forum to highlight 'they' when referring to England, and 'our' when referring to Scotland in the way you have just done.

    You do know this isn't a political forum, right?
    You are absolutely right, bud. it isn't a political forum, but sometimes the "Wee Scotland team" mentality gets to me.
    I do apologise.

  14. #343
    @hibs.net private member hibee_nation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon's Lip View Post
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    You are absolutely right, bud. it isn't a political forum, but sometimes the "Wee Scotland team" mentality gets to me.
    I do apologise.
    Is this a .net first someone getting theirknickers in a twist over the use of they to describe them
    45 AND RISING

  15. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_nation View Post
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    Is this a .net first someone getting theirknickers in a twist over the use of they to describe them
    You might be right. I can be a bit of a Neil Lennon in over-reacting!

  16. #345
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
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    I'll stick my head up in response to the posters who think we should all support Scotland. Hibs football fan, not a Scotland football fan.

    They're different sports. In the same way that I'm not a Scotland rugby, badminton, cricket, rowing or elephant polo fan.

    Although I am always happy to see a rangers, celtc or hearts player/manager lose at anything. I don't know many folk that are Scotland fans - in that they go to the games - and the few I do know, I don't particularly like. I can think of one guy in particular, big hearts and Scotland fan, and I enjoy winding him up whenever hearts or Scotland lose so to that extent I suppose I enjoy it more when the team loses than when they win.

    I also think my view is probably coloured by the SFA/Scottish football media being so beholden to the old firm. In general if the Scottish football media/SFA/old firm are 'For' something, I'll be 'Against' it.

    I don't understand why Hibs are expected to release our players to the national team. Why are our 'assets' exposed to the risk of injury - and the even bigger risk of tapping up by the old firm dominated set-up - without recompense? Club involvement with the national game should be entirely voluntary. I don't pay my gate money for Hibs to develop players for international football. There are posters here (even in this thread) who are against the Hibs women's team getting any resources from the club - that's exactly how I feel about the international team getting resources from the club (I'm pro the Hibs women's team though).

  17. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_nation View Post
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    They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.
    That's an especially 'anyone but England' take on it. In reality, they qualified from their group with a game to spare, fielded a shadow side against Belgium, won a high-pressure penalty shoot out that their more experienced predecessors would most likely have lost, turned in an impressively mature display against Sweden and came within 20 minutes of reaching the World Cup final against a stronger Croatia side. You can only beat what's in front of you and I imagine all these 'mediocre' teams they beat sit comfortably above Scotland in the world rankings. We're in no position to pass judgement and it would take a particularly mean-spirited Scot to deny that for such a young squad, from whom so little was expected, to reach the World Cup semi-finals was a fine achievement. The fact that the English media, so often quick to hang, draw and quarter an England side which falls short at a major tournament, have instead lauded their achievements underlines what a feelgood factor they have returned to English international football. When was the last time anyone could say that about our international team?

  18. #347
    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    That's an especially 'anyone but England' take on it. In reality, they qualified from their group with a game to spare, fielded a shadow side against Belgium, won a high-pressure penalty shoot out that their more experienced predecessors would most likely have lost, turned in an impressively mature display against Sweden and came within 20 minutes of reaching the World Cup final against a stronger Croatia side. You can only beat what's in front of you and I imagine all these 'mediocre' teams they beat sit comfortably above Scotland in the world rankings. We're in no position to pass judgement and it would take a particularly mean-spirited Scot to deny that for such a young squad, from whom so little was expected, to reach the World Cup semi-finals was a fine achievement. The fact that the English media, so often quick to hang, draw and quarter an England side which falls short at a major tournament, have instead lauded their achievements underlines what a feelgood factor they have returned to English international football. When was the last time anyone could say that about our international team?
    Around nineteen pancake?

  19. #348
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    That's an especially 'anyone but England' take on it. In reality, they qualified from their group with a game to spare, fielded a shadow side against Belgium, won a high-pressure penalty shoot out that their more experienced predecessors would most likely have lost, turned in an impressively mature display against Sweden and came within 20 minutes of reaching the World Cup final against a stronger Croatia side. You can only beat what's in front of you and I imagine all these 'mediocre' teams they beat sit comfortably above Scotland in the world rankings. We're in no position to pass judgement and it would take a particularly mean-spirited Scot to deny that for such a young squad, from whom so little was expected, to reach the World Cup semi-finals was a fine achievement. The fact that the English media, so often quick to hang, draw and quarter an England side which falls short at a major tournament, have instead lauded their achievements underlines what a feelgood factor they have returned to English international football. When was the last time anyone could say that about our international team?
    This is such an empty argument that you're making; 'Scottish people aren't allowed to make an objective analysis of England's world cup run because the Scottish national team didn't qualify'. Eh?

    England got lucky with the group draw they got, the half of the draw they were in after qualification, and the state of the teams that they met when they got there. When they came up against Croatia they encountered superior players and came up short. I don't see how you can dispute this. Unless this is all about something else than football.

  20. #349
    @hibs.net private member MrSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    This is such an empty argument that you're making; 'Scottish people aren't allowed to make an objective analysis of England's world cup run because the Scottish national team didn't qualify'. Eh?

    England got lucky with the group draw they got, the half of the draw they were in after qualification, and the state of the teams that they met when they got there. When they came up against Croatia they encountered superior players and came up short. I don't see how you can dispute this. Unless this is all about something else than football.

  21. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_nation View Post
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    They beat 3 mediocre teams at best, drew with a decent team and were pumped by 2 good teams hardly a magnificent achievement. Never will they get a better chance. They blew it and know it.

    Absolute rubbish. They didn't blow it - they did their best and it wasn't enough, that's not blowing it.

  22. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by gloryhunter View Post
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    Absolute rubbish. They didn't blow it - they did their best and it wasn't enough, that's not blowing it.
    They lost to a country of under 4 million who are way below them in the rankings. They massively blew it.

  23. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    They didn't 'blow it'. They went into the tournament with expectations probably lower than for any England side at a major tournament. Few would have expected them to get further than the last 16 so they had a very good tournament and ultimately lost out to a more experienced and stronger side. Credit to them.
    Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

    While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.

  24. #353
    Testimonial Due Big_Franck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloryhunter View Post
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    Absolute rubbish. They didn't blow it - they did their best and it wasn't enough, that's not blowing it.
    For me they blew the best chance they had to win the world cup in the last 50 years, without any shadow of a doubt. It is extremely unikely they'll get a route to the final like they had again in my lifetime.

  25. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by .KingDomofFife. View Post
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    They lost to a country of under 4 million who are way below them in the rankings. They massively blew it.
    They lost to a good side who might yet end up World Cup winners.

    As a fan of Hibs and Scotland I'd like to think I know a thing or 2 about blowing it. That's not what they did the other night.

  26. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easter Rising View Post
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    Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

    While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.
    You can't blow an opportunity if you are not good enough. It may be argued that by size they should be better but at the moment they are not.

  27. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    They lost to a good side who might yet end up World Cup winners.

    As a fan of Hibs and Scotland I'd like to think I know a thing or 2 about blowing it. That's not what they did the other night.

    That's my point exactly. It was a great opportunity with the easy draws/route to semi etc. but they were not quite up to it and that is definitely not blowing it. It's called going as far in a competition as you are able.

  28. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by .KingDomofFife. View Post
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    They lost to a country of under 4 million who are way below them in the rankings. They massively blew it.
    The population doesn't matter. Only 11 men can play. Croatia have world class players in their side.

  29. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easter Rising View Post
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    Their population is 13 times that of Croatias and the English game is awash with money. By any criteria you choose to look at they should have been heavy favourites to win that game.

    While i agree that they surpassed the public expectations before the tournament (mainly because their recent efforts in 2014 and 2016 have been utter embarrassments) the idea that are heroic underdogs is laughable. They’ve had a good tournament but they blew a massive opportunity.

    How much bigger than Croatia is Russia?

  30. #359
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloryhunter View Post
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    How much bigger than Croatia is Russia?
    36

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  31. #360
    Jeezo - is the ABE vs Eng fan club thing *still* going?

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