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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    At 37 I was relatively young when I moved to France.

    After a couple of months I went to the GP as I had the beginnings of tonsillitis. During my appointment the doctor asked me when was the last time I'd had my blood tested (when I was about 5 was the answer). He immediately gave me a prescription for a full set of blood tests). A mobile nurse took the samples in my house before I went to work and whisked them off to the laboratory, with the results arriving in the post a couple of days later with a copy going to the GP.

    "Everything" was there. Sedimentation results, different sugar levels, cholesterol (good and bad) levels - you name it.

    It's standard for adults to have this done once a year. It's not expensive and is reimbursed by your health insurance (which practically everyone has).

    It's definitely a game changer when you can see what's fine and what's a bit iffy and, unless you have an underlying problem, it's easy enough to adjust your diet a wee bit to stay within the recommended levels.

    I also spoke to the GP about my persistent problem with indigestion /heartburn. I'd already spoken to my GP in Edinburgh about this when I was in my early 20s. I can't remember what he said but it didn't fix anything. It was murder and I was constantly munching rennies or settlers. Across here I was sent for an endoscopy which showed that I have a hiatus hernia, probably caused by my playing bagpipes as a teenager. One wee tablet per day now means that I have no discomfort whatsoever. The endoscopy is repeated every 2-3 years to keep an eye on what's going on.

    What I'm basically getting at is that, although the NHS is a wonderful principle/institution, the level of healthcare on offer to the majority of people is miles behind other European countries.
    Don't know about the bloods bit but the story re the hernia... Take away the pipes and replace them with Rugby and I would have the exact same story.... About the NHS in Edinburgh!
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  3. #32
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    [QUOTE=Chic Murray;5450422]
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I do see what you mean to an extent, but ultimately those lifestyle choices are putting an unsustainable strain on the public health system.

    Whether it's sugar or fat or anything else is moot, unhealthy fat people are a huge risk to themselves, but more than that are helping to bankrupt the NHS. The govt simply had no choice but to act.[/QUOTE

    Agreed, but people climb mountains, they drive their car too fast, they take risks every day that ultimately impact on the NHS.

    What risks do we allow people to take, and which do we forbid?

    Could be argued that the risks of dangerous behaviour are much more clearly defined.
    True, and there have been huge safety campaigns and rules around driving too - seat belts, airbags, speed limits are

    This is about population level things - mountain climbing is a niche sport whose impact on NHS finances will be minute.

    Diabetes is now responsible for 10% - a round 150m every year, of out country's total medicines spending and that's just for medicines, and that's with estimates that a huge number of people have it undiagnosed. This doesn't include amputations, management, etc etc

    That means hundreds of millions are being spent on one single, largely preventable condition, that can't be spent elsewhere. It's a population level epidemic, and if I were FM I would be taking even more radical action.

    We all want an NHS that works. Public health campaigns like this are vital to it's past success and it's future sustainability imo.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Depending on who controls health policy. A generation ago, cholesterol was the big danger, now it's sugar. Can we trust the "experts"?
    Perhaps not always, and evidence will always move on. But what is the alternative? Sack all experts, scrap health policy, scrap the NHS, give us all a huge pay cut and let us gene for ourselves and pay for our own healthcare, like in the US?
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 03-07-2018 at 05:25 AM.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I agree with the pricing too.

    As I said before, what do we do when experts disagree?
    It's a good question...

    The real answer is ultimately, we will probably follow whatever advice best suits the politicians and the government of the day.

    You make a good point, and politics is a bit of a hindrance to good (or bad but necessary) policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    It's a good question...

    The real answer is ultimately, we will probably follow whatever advice best suits the politicians and the government of the day.

    You make a good point, and politics is a bit of a hindrance to good (or bad but necessary) policy.
    Yes, in so many aspects of our lives. Whether it's successive US Presidents keeping the Vietnam war going, because they didn't want to be the person that lost the war; or Edinburgh Council shutting off main routes through the city at the same time as the Royal Highland Show was on, to celebrate clean air day, too many decisions are made for what scans well with electors or funders, instead of what the evidence says - in our whitaboot world, somebody will also point out that these things can leave aromas, or damage the fabric of the house.

    The acid test with this decision by the council will be, whether they allow e Cigarettes in their houses; after that they have decisions to make about deep fat fryers and whether residents are allowed to wear shoes in the house.
    Last edited by Chic Murray; 03-07-2018 at 07:42 AM.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Perhaps not always, and evidence will always move on. But what is the alternative? Sack all experts, scrap health policy, scrap the NHS, give us all a huge pay cut and let us gene for ourselves and pay for our own healthcare, like in the US?
    I think there are other alternatives, to be fair, and people are being encouraged more and more to question decisions that are made on their behalf. Unfortunately too many people seem to lack the confidence to challenge the most ludicrous ones - 20 mph zones, anyone?

    The first thing to do is to question what it is that gives an expert their expert status. Take Hugh Pennington, he was a bacteriologist and came to prominence during the eColi outbreak in Lanarkshire a couple of decades ago.

    Now he is trotted out whenever there is any sort of epidemic, whether it's bacteriological, or not. He is the media's "go to" expert, the official man in a white coat. It matters nothing whether he knows what he is talking about.

    We have to consider who sponsors some of the experts too, are they pharmaceutical companies, or food trade bodies. I keep coming back to cholesterol, but I read about a US doctor who insisted cholesterol didn't cause blood clots, three decades ago. However, as big pharmaceutical wanted to sell drugs that could reduce cholesterol, that was the way that informed opinion was to go.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    At 37 I was relatively young when I moved to France.

    After a couple of months I went to the GP as I had the beginnings of tonsillitis. During my appointment the doctor asked me when was the last time I'd had my blood tested (when I was about 5 was the answer). He immediately gave me a prescription for a full set of blood tests). A mobile nurse took the samples in my house before I went to work and whisked them off to the laboratory, with the results arriving in the post a couple of days later with a copy going to the GP.

    "Everything" was there. Sedimentation results, different sugar levels, cholesterol (good and bad) levels - you name it.

    It's standard for adults to have this done once a year. It's not expensive and is reimbursed by your health insurance (which practically everyone has).

    It's definitely a game changer when you can see what's fine and what's a bit iffy and, unless you have an underlying problem, it's easy enough to adjust your diet a wee bit to stay within the recommended levels.

    I also spoke to the GP about my persistent problem with indigestion /heartburn. I'd already spoken to my GP in Edinburgh about this when I was in my early 20s. I can't remember what he said but it didn't fix anything. It was murder and I was constantly munching rennies or settlers. Across here I was sent for an endoscopy which showed that I have a hiatus hernia, probably caused by my playing bagpipes as a teenager. One wee tablet per day now means that I have no discomfort whatsoever. The endoscopy is repeated every 2-3 years to keep an eye on what's going on.

    What I'm basically getting at is that, although the NHS is a wonderful principle/institution, the level of healthcare on offer to the majority of people is miles behind other European countries.
    That’s always been my big bear about the U.K. system. We wait until someone is unwell to then treat them. We have 6 monthly dentist checkups but zero in place to assess general health on a regular basis.

    If it was me I would introduce an annual health review where bloods etc were taken and people given a health report. A bit like an annual car service but for the body. Thankfully I think technology will deliver this over time but if we really want to ‘save the NHS’ then effective and systemic prevention is the key.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I think there are other alternatives, to be fair, and people are being encouraged more and more to question decisions that are made on their behalf. Unfortunately too many people seem to lack the confidence to challenge the most ludicrous ones - 20 mph zones, anyone?

    The first thing to do is to question what it is that gives an expert their expert status. Take Hugh Pennington, he was a bacteriologist and came to prominence during the eColi outbreak in Lanarkshire a couple of decades ago.

    Now he is trotted out whenever there is any sort of epidemic, whether it's bacteriological, or not. He is the media's "go to" expert, the official man in a white coat. It matters nothing whether he knows what he is talking about.

    We have to consider who sponsors some of the experts too, are they pharmaceutical companies, or food trade bodies. I keep coming back to cholesterol, but I read about a US doctor who insisted cholesterol didn't cause blood clots, three decades ago. However, as big pharmaceutical wanted to sell drugs that could reduce cholesterol, that was the way that informed opinion was to go.

    Re Hugh Pennington, he wrote to the The Times newspaper last weekend but he no longer uses his Professor title.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Depending on who controls health policy. A generation ago, cholesterol was the big danger, now it's sugar. Can we trust the "experts"?
    Yet despite the headlines sugar consumption has been on the wane since about 1970 and there actually an inverse relationship between sugar consumption and obesity (sugar consumption down, obesity up).

    https://cefs.org/blog/2014/05/01/the...hat-you-think/

    Yet reading the headlines you would think sugar consumption has gone through the roof in the last 20 years when actually the opposite is true.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
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    Smokers outside pubs should be banned too. Like to sit outside on a nice summers day, and you get surrounded by folk puffing away

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Smokers outside pubs should be banned too. Like to sit outside on a nice summers day, and you get surrounded by folk puffing away
    That's where they are all year. Why should they move because you want to sit outside?

    Personally, I'd happily go indoors.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Smokers outside pubs should be banned too. Like to sit outside on a nice summers day, and you get surrounded by folk puffing away
    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    That's where they are all year. Why should they move because you want to sit outside?

    Personally, I'd happily go indoors.
    Where's Captain Trips to settle this?
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 03-07-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    That's where they are all year. Why should they move because you want to sit outside?

    Personally, I'd happily go indoors.
    Because they stink

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member Billy Whizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    That's where they are all year. Why should they move because you want to sit outside?

    Personally, I'd happily go indoors.
    Shouldn’t be able to smoke in a public area, and this area is not just for smokers
    Do any pubs have outside areas that are just for non smokers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Shouldn’t be able to smoke in a public area, and this area is not just for smokers
    Do any pubs have outside areas that are just for non smokers?
    Not sure if you're joking, or not,but I'll play.

    The law is there to protect people from second hand smoking in enclosed spaces. If you think non smokers should have a separate planet, campaign for a change in the law.

    As it stands, it's your problem, not theirs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Shouldn’t be able to smoke in a public area, and this area is not just for smokers
    Do any pubs have outside areas that are just for non smokers?
    The balcony outside my golf club is no smoking.
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  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Shouldn’t be able to smoke in a public area, and this area is not just for smokers
    Do any pubs have outside areas that are just for non smokers?
    Theres a no smoking area outside Lloyds @ The Omni Centre.

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Not sure if you're joking, or not,but I'll play.

    The law is there to protect people from second hand smoking in enclosed spaces. If you think non smokers should have a separate planet, campaign for a change in the law.

    As it stands, it's your problem, not theirs.
    It's the last sentence that will be the eventually lead to the end of smoking in public areas... we had a chance back in the day when puns had the chance to have separate smoking areas, not enough did so legislation was brought in.

    Places like the Juniper at least try to separate smokers/non in their beer garden making it suitable for all... hate to say it but if smokers are going to be selfish again then history will repeat itself again.



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  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    Just to add to my other post, it's been a while since I was in the Juniper nut they simply put all the ashtrays on tables to one side of the garden, mostly worked but never strictly enforced and of course there's always gonna be one!

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  21. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Not sure if you're joking, or not,but I'll play.

    The law is there to protect people from second hand smoking in enclosed spaces. If you think non smokers should have a separate planet, campaign for a change in the law.

    As it stands, it's your problem, not theirs.
    Why would I be joking, it’s a serious issue, and something that’s needs tackled in the summer months

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Alf View Post
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    It's the last sentence that will be the eventually lead to the end of smoking in public areas... we had a chance back in the day when puns had the chance to have separate smoking areas, not enough did so legislation was brought in.

    Places like the Juniper at least try to separate smokers/non in their beer garden making it suitable for all... hate to say it but if smokers are going to be selfish again then history will repeat itself again.



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    I don't think there should be any problem it people respect each other. It's all about being reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    Why would I be joking, it’s a serious issue, and something that’s needs tackled in the summer months
    Leave you to it, you know what to do.

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Leave you to it, you know what to do.
    It will be the next stage smoking ban. Took us years to get the 1st one, now time to bring it to a conclusion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Whizz View Post
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    It will be the next stage smoking ban. Took us years to get the 1st one, now time to bring it to a conclusion
    Yup.

    Careful what you wish for. First they came first the smokers....

  26. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Yup.

    Careful what you wish for. First they came first the smokers....
    Good to chat!

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I don't think there should be any problem it people respect each other. It's all about being reasonable.
    Exactly, but from a smokers perspective I worry that too many will simply not even notice the impact on others. I can see history repeating itself.

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  28. #57
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    We already have well established no-smoking areas outside public buildings, hospitals and work places that are routinely ignored and not enforced in any way.
    I can't see further exclusions working,,,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Alf View Post
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    Exactly, but from a smokers perspective I worry that too many will simply not even notice the impact on others. I can see history repeating itself.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    The implications for freedom of choice and expression are interesting.

  30. #59
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    There could be huge economic repercussions of banning smoking in public places. We've already seen how many pubs closed when smoking was banned. What would happen if people weren't even allowed to nip outside for a fag? Restaurants would be affected too as would cinemas and even football attendances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    There could be huge economic repercussions of banning smoking in public places. We've already seen how many pubs closed when smoking was banned. What would happen if people weren't even allowed to nip outside for a fag? Restaurants would be affected too as would cinemas and even football attendances.
    Only temporarily, once the smokers start dying out things will return to normal.

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