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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceinawhile View Post
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    Lots of things that are harmful are legal. More people die every year from horse riding accidents than from taking ecstasy. Which is more harmful and which do you think is legal?
    Isle of Man TT - carnage.


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  3. #32
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Really???



    You beat me to it!
    Peter Hitchens probably only said that because his brother said the opposite.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    I'm torn over this but edging towards the status quo, the status quo isn't brilliant but I can't see how the plentiful but legal availability will help those who need help most.
    We all know that cannabis isn't addictive but the feeling experienced after use can be. Many adults that I know to use cannabis do so because of other issues, a few to top up their legitimate meds, a couple of others because they've done so since they were a teenager and it's what works for them.
    Other adults I know that used to enjoy a smoke when younger don't partake so much these days. Either because they don't get off on it anymore, or they've "grown" up,,,,
    I'm also not sure how it would work for those that are employed in industries where there are drug tests. Many transport operators currently carry out urine based drug tests and a +ve for cannabis would result in instant dismissal. Legalisation would require this to be changed (I would think) and future screenings would have to be impairment based, i.e are you fit to work?!?
    On your last point, how is it any different from alcohol? Just because itís legal doesnít mean itís acceptable to be high at your workplace.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    There is no point filling prisons and courts with cases related to cannabis possession in my view. It should at least go back to decriminalisation.

    Not sure Iím buying the gateway drug bit. Iím sure a huge proportion of users have not, at least habitually, moved onto harder stuff. Some will have, but who is to say they wouldnít have done that anyway?

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    On your last point, how is it any different from alcohol? Just because itís legal doesnít mean itís acceptable to be high at your workplace.
    Agreed, but it is my understanding that your body can process alcohol reasonably quickly so it's out of your system by at least 24hrs, cannabis is detectable in your urine for longer, depending on usage a minimum of days but can be detectable up to a month if used heavily.
    My query is, if cannabis is legalised, will folk who have to undergo vocational drug testing be more or less precluded from partaking because of the timescales involved. Maybe we should scrap urine testing and place a bag of cheesy wotsits in front of the candidate,,,, if they open the bag they're not fit for work 😁

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Agreed, but it is my understanding that your body can process alcohol reasonably quickly so it's out of your system by at least 24hrs, cannabis is detectable in your urine for longer, depending on usage a minimum of days but can be detectable up to a month if used heavily.
    My query is, if cannabis is legalised, will folk who have to undergo vocational drug testing be more or less precluded from partaking because of the timescales involved. Maybe we should scrap urine testing and place a bag of cheesy wotsits in front of the candidate,,,, if they open the bag they're not fit for work 😁
    I guess for people in jobs where they need to be completely unaffected by substances, itís a choice theyíll have to make.

  8. #37
    Testimonial Due Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

    However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.
    Absolutely agree

  9. #38
    Testimonial Due Alex Trager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    I guess for people in jobs where they need to be completely unaffected by substances, itís a choice theyíll have to make.
    Same way as it is now really

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member silverhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Driving whilst stoned is currently an offence and would stay one so if the wife is going to try it you better hide the car keys!

    As for legalisation increasing use...there is a few mixed messages but largely the answer seems to be generally no and if it does then not by much. This makes sense as effectively if you want to use it then you can quite easily do so already so legalisation just brings those users into the mainstream whilst there is not a huge pent up demand (due to the afore mentioned wide availability currently) awaiting legalisation before using.
    It may be a offence but in Scotland the police would have to catch you smoking a spliff while driving, different story down south where you can be swabbed to see if you have any illegal drugs in your system, something Scottish police don't use yet.

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users
    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    I know a couple of folk who have had mental problems caused by cannabis usage.
    Patrick Cockburn in today's Independent

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverhibee View Post
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    It may be a offence but in Scotland the police would have to catch you smoking a spliff while driving, different story down south where you can be swabbed to see if you have any illegal drugs in your system, something Scottish police don't use yet.
    Not sure how the weed in the spliff being legal or not makes any difference to be honest.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Mon Dieu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    I don't smoke it and don't have any stake in this game but Id counter that with the point that when you go to a dealer you aren't exactly given I huge list of different types of weed, you take what they have, if it was legalised it would be regulated and the strains of super skunk going about would be looked at, not many people would be going into a shop and requesting the strongest skunk they have, most people if given the choice would be going for something a bit more mellow

    It would be akin to going to the pub and drinking nothing but Absinthe, not many people do

  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4 View Post
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    I don't smoke it and don't have any stake in this game but Id counter that with the point that when you go to a dealer you aren't exactly given I huge list of different types of weed, you take what they have, if it was legalised it would be regulated and the strains of super skunk going about would be looked at, not many people would be going into a shop and requesting the strongest skunk they have, most people if given the choice would be going for something a bit more mellow

    It would be akin to going to the pub and drinking nothing but Absinthe, not many people do
    Some people go into pubs and drink relatively mild alcohol, like beer. Some people go into pubs and drink relatively strong alcohol, like whisky. Why do you think most people would choose mild versions of cannabis?

    But I think Cockburn's main point is not about whether cannabis should be legal. It's that the focus on whether it should be legal distracts from the point that it is/can be harmful.

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Itís an odd one this.

    If we discovered alchol or tobacco now brand new, it wouldnít be legalised because of the damage it does.

    However the damage cannabis does pales into insignificance compared to booze and fags.

    Perhaps bring in more forgiving cannabis. Regulate it, tax it, have age restrictions, etc. But clamp down on the super strength, **** you up, super skunk.

    Or only allow a certain amount per person, per month. Kinda like absynthe in pubs.

    I am definately on the side of legalising and taking it out of the hands of criminals. It wastes Police time and resource, it earns a fortune for organised crime so will hit their pockets, and it will generate revenue. That revenue IMHO should be ploughed into drug abstinence and support programmes.

    J

  16. #45
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    The issue most people seem to overlook is that the price will rocket if it is made legal.

    The government will add a tax like an alcohol tax and then add 20% VAT. Perhaps more, depending on its strength.

    I haven't heard one mention of this on TV -- perhaps I have missed that.


    In other words the criminals who steal to buy their stuff will need to steal more and the pushers will make an absolute fortune

    continuing to sell at their cheaper prices.

    If I have missed something here please tell me.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollution View Post
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    The issue most people seem to overlook is that the price will rocket if it is made legal.

    The government will add a tax like an alcohol tax and then add 20% VAT. Perhaps more, depending on its strength.

    I haven't heard one mention of this on TV -- perhaps I have missed that.


    In other words the criminals who steal to buy their stuff will need to steal more and the pushers will make an absolute fortune

    continuing to sell at their cheaper prices.

    If I have missed something here please tell me.
    People who use cannabis generally don't steal to fund its use. That's more typical of users of harder drugs.

    As for the pricing, how do you know the price will rise? If it's legal, more people will be involved in its supply. Competition will keep the price relatively low, possibly lower than it is just now with its limited availability.

    The "pusher" will be almost extinct.

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    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 24-06-2018 at 10:57 AM.

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollution View Post
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    The issue most people seem to overlook is that the price will rocket if it is made legal.

    The government will add a tax like an alcohol tax and then add 20% VAT. Perhaps more, depending on its strength.

    I haven't heard one mention of this on TV -- perhaps I have missed that.


    In other words the criminals who steal to buy their stuff will need to steal more and the pushers will make an absolute fortune

    continuing to sell at their cheaper prices.

    If I have missed something here please tell me.
    Well I know governments are generally stupid but if they do legalise it then drive the price to a level where the black market proliferates even more then they are very stupid indeed.

    But letís be honest this is a plant that can be grown anywhere with a wee bit care and attention and if legalised then a lot of people would just grow their own. Government approved and (sensibly taxed) sources would then make up the rest. There would be little or no market for any other source on any scale if done properly.

    You would also have to smoke a hell of a lot of weed to need to be career criminal to fund your habit!

    As for the term Ďpushersí Iíve not heard that since the 80ís

  19. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Agreed, but it is my understanding that your body can process alcohol reasonably quickly so it's out of your system by at least 24hrs, cannabis is detectable in your urine for longer, depending on usage a minimum of days but can be detectable up to a month if used heavily.
    My query is, if cannabis is legalised, will folk who have to undergo vocational drug testing be more or less precluded from partaking because of the timescales involved. Maybe we should scrap urine testing and place a bag of cheesy wotsits in front of the candidate,,,, if they open the bag they're not fit for work 😁
    what you would get is a test for the level of thc. That way you only find yourself in bother if actually under the influence.

  20. #49
    Any plans for triple sods, cake or clarky cats?
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  21. #50
    First Team Breakthrough Curried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Well I know governments are generally stupid but if they do legalise it then drive the price to a level where the black market proliferates even more then they are very stupid indeed.

    But letís be honest this is a plant that can be grown anywhere with a wee bit care and attention and if legalised then a lot of people would just grow their own. Government approved and (sensibly taxed) sources would then make up the rest. There would be little or no market for any other source on any scale if done properly.

    You would also have to smoke a hell of a lot of weed to need to be career criminal to fund your habit!

    As for the term Ďpushersí Iíve not heard that since the 80ís

    Well, now if I were president of this land
    You know, I'd declare total war on the pusher man

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  22. #51
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Actually, if Brits got into the habit of taking cannabis at the weekends instead of flipping great vats of alcohol the country would be a better place.

    I don't advocate smoking joints though. Tobacco is very bad for you.

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member silverhibee's Avatar
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  24. #53
    #dotnettopboiz Haymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Any plans for triple sods, cake or clarky cats?
    Cake? I don't want to cry all the water out of my body or get "Czech Neck" so that should remain illegal.
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  25. #54
    First Team Breakthrough Chic Murray's Avatar
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    Chief Medical Officer for England says it should be on prescription, based on evidence that's been available for years; government moves to cut back on bookies shops despite it being a massive source of income (apparently they've just discovered gambling is addictive); Brexit will lead to greater trading opportunities with the US, a major cannabis producer; seminars on how to invest in Cannabis in the City of London.

    Join the dots folks.

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Chief Medical Officer for England says it should be on prescription, based on evidence that's been available for years; government moves to cut back on bookies shops despite it being a massive source of income (apparently they've just discovered gambling is addictive); Brexit will lead to greater trading opportunities with the US, a major cannabis producer; seminars on how to invest in Cannabis in the City of London.

    Join the dots folks.
    This dot says that the world's largest producer of legal cannabis is the UK.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8243921.html

  27. #56
    First Team Breakthrough Chic Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    This dot says that the world's largest producer of legal cannabis is the UK.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8243921.html
    Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

    I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

    Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.
    Last edited by Chic Murray; 04-07-2018 at 10:10 AM.

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

    I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

    Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.
    We can have both.

    Reduced costs for the justice system. Improved health for those in need. Increase in the tax take. Increases in legitimate employment.

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  29. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

    I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

    Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.


    Why would it matter what colour the businessmen were?

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    Game over, how can anybody compete with talking dots?

    I was really talking about all those Cannabis farms in the USA that are funded by white businessmen who would love to go legit.

    Good point anyway, it does reinforce that this is about business rather than any altruistic goal.
    The biggest cannabis agri firms are actually Canadian firms rather than US.

  31. #60
    First Team Breakthrough Chic Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    Why would it matter what colour the businessmen were?
    Historically the vast major criminalised over Marijuana have been black. Some see the legalisation in that country as indicative of an ongoing war on race, as the vast majority of those profiting now are white.

    Worth reading more, if you're interested. Google is your friend.

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