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  1. #1
    johnbc70
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    Legalise Cannabis?

    A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

    Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

    But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

    Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

    But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.
    Yes. Make masses of money by taxing it, take it out the hands of criminals and regulate it and at the end of the day, while different, itís not really any worse than alcohol is it? This is coming from someone whoís never smoked it.

    Even if not for recreational use, the fact itís not legal for medicinal use is ridiculous.

  4. #3
    Should be legaised for medicinal use at the very least .

  5. #4
    Testimonial Due Mon Dieu4's Avatar
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    It's certainly time to be having the chat, cigarettes and alcohol are legal and I put it in the same catogory as them, the difference is people with an agenda have put all their efforts into demonising cannabis for almost a century and as a result much of the information out there is biased at best.

    I have a fair few friends that are total stoners and who do absolutely no harm to anything but a Mars Bar, legalise it and regulate it, would be worth it for the increased tax revenue alone which you could put into the NHS or treatment for people on harder substances

  6. #5
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

    Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

    But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.
    I'm no expert on drugs but have dealt with a few cases during my time as a paramedic and had a dabble as a teenager before deciding it wasn't for me.

    In all the years I never had a call to an incident where someone had O.D.'d on cannabis, never once did I have to treat someone for injuries resulting from cannabis invoked violence. However, I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users and many of those I dealt with who had problems with harder substances said the same thing over and over again, they all started by smoking joints and liked the social aspect of sharing hits with friends. One thing led to another and before they knew it they were hooked on something more sinister.

    That said of all the drug users I came across, the worst afflicted and by far the one that caused most problems was alcohol.

    Where do I stand on legalisation of cannabis? I think it would bring long term problems for both individuals and society as a whole, but it least it would be out in the open and more controllable with the ability to monitor the effects it has in a more transparent environment free of the stigma it has at present.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I'm no expert on drugs but have dealt with a few cases during my time as a paramedic and had a dabble as a teenager before deciding it wasn't for me.

    In all the years I never had a call to an incident where someone had O.D.'d on cannabis, never once did I have to treat someone for injuries resulting from cannabis invoked violence. However, I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users and many of those I dealt with who had problems with harder substances said the same thing over and over again, they all started by smoking joints and liked the social aspect of sharing hits with friends. One thing led to another and before they knew it they were hooked on something more sinister.

    That said of all the drug users I came across, the worst afflicted and by far the one that caused most problems was alcohol.

    Where do I stand on legalisation of cannabis? I think it would bring long term problems for both individuals and society as a whole, but it least it would be out in the open and more controllable with the ability to monitor the effects it has in a more transparent environment free of the stigma it has at present.
    I've heard it said that taking it away from dealers who sell anything that they can profit from would prevent this happening for a lot of those users.

  8. #7
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Seems a no-brainer. It would certainly be a good thing if it replaced alcohol as recreation for some folk.
    My only reservation is that it will increase tobacco use. I know it can be eaten or smoked on its own in a pipe but the classic way is via the spliff.
    You can tell I've done my research!

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killiehibbie View Post
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    I've heard it said that taking it away from dealers who sell anything that they can profit from would prevent this happening for a lot of those users.
    Agreed. It might be a gateway drug, but how much of that is due to the ďsupplierĒ having other things for sale? Would it be as much of an issue if you went into a shop for it and they were selling cannabis and only cannabis and you didnít have other options like you do when buying from a dealer? Iíd suggest the gateway side of it would decrease.

    Medicinal use is a must to legalise IMO. My father has a grade 4 Glioblastoma (aggressive cancerous brain tumour). Iím not saying it would help him, but thereís certainly instances where people who have had the same as he has have taken cannabis oil and seen huge improvements. If it helps then thereís no way people should be left to seek it illegally IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    Seems a no-brainer. It would certainly be a good thing if it replaced alcohol as recreation for some folk.
    My only reservation is that it will increase tobacco use. I know it can be eaten or smoked on its own in a pipe but the classic way is via the spliff.
    You can tell I've done my research!
    Itís dry herb vaporisers these days, or so the young team tell me

    The cannabis laws are a joke and itís taken a poor wee laddie with health problems to finally bring it back to the forefront again.

    Prohibition has completely failed for most drugs but especially cannabis, itís freely available to anyone that wants it with little effort.

    Time to take the trade away from the Ďcriminal gangsí and regulate and tax as per alcohol and the likes...the tax returns in the states that have done so in the USA are enlightening. And thatís without taking into account the time and cost savings of at least decriminalisation, with police budgets under pressure this would be a very effective way of freeing up police and court time to focus on rather more important things than if someone fancies a wee puff of weed every so often.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

    However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Itís dry herb vaporisers these days, or so the young team tell me

    The cannabis laws are a joke and itís taken a poor wee laddie with health problems to finally bring it back to the forefront again.

    Prohibition has completely failed for most drugs but especially cannabis, itís freely available to anyone that wants it with little effort.

    Time to take the trade away from the Ďcriminal gangsí and regulate and tax as per alcohol and the likes...the tax returns in the states that have done so in the USA are enlightening. And thatís without taking into account the time and cost savings of at least decriminalisation, with police budgets under pressure this would be a very effective way of freeing up police and court time to focus on rather more important things than if someone fancies a wee puff of weed every so often.
    True. But there will be more folk driving when stoned, won't there?
    I mean, cannabis use will increase after all. Bound to. The wife might even try it!

  13. #12
    Given the increasingly stringent rules around tobacco use it does seem odd that it looks increasingly inevitable that another drug which is primarily smoked, and often used in conjunction with tobacco, will be legalised at some point in the short to medium term.

    Personally I'm of the belief that the 'war on drugs' has been lost for some time and a debate about taking the entire industry under state control seems long overdue. At the very least the potential medical uses of drugs like cannabis need evaluation and a decision made with an open mind.
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  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

    However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.
    Perish the thought. Imagine the multi billion pound worldwide industry fighting the unwinnable war against drugs no longer being required.

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    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    I'd say it's worth the discussion anyway, and while I wouldn't claim to know enough to make an informed opinion my uninformed opinion would be to legalise it.

    The damage Cannabis does to the users body is fairly minimal, particularly when you compare to alcohol and tobacco.
    The impact on others is minimal/non-existent, again particularly compared to alcohol.
    The extra tax income could only be a good thing.
    Regulations and control would presumably increase quality, and thus safety, of the drug. Although I would imagine this isn't too big an issue with cannabis as it is other drugs.


    However, I do wonder if we're really ready for it. As a nation, our relationship with addictive substances isn't exactly the best (alcohol, sugar, gambling) and the current trend is, rightly, for the state to limit these things through legislation - so I doubt they'll start relaxing the rules here.
    Mon the Hibs.

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    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    The world has gone to pot already.

    The government will make a hash of it.

    How do you weed out the different users?

    Ross Hemp has to investigate.
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  17. #16
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    It's a pathway drug. It creates a number of health problems.

    We're currently trying to reduce consumption of alcohol and cigarettes so why would we make legal something else that is harmful?

    The War on Drugs title was daft from the first day it was used. We don't talk about a 'War' on cancer, diabetes, malaria, poor mental health or suicide and yet we do want to try to reduce and eliminate these things.

    If we are going to give up on cannabis because we are struggling to enforce it why not just give up on a shed load of other things because they're too hard to enforce as well?

    Review for medical reasons sensible though.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    True. But there will be more folk driving when stoned, won't there?
    I mean, cannabis use will increase after all. Bound to. The wife might even try it!
    Driving whilst stoned is currently an offence and would stay one so if the wife is going to try it you better hide the car keys!

    As for legalisation increasing use...there is a few mixed messages but largely the answer seems to be generally no and if it does then not by much. This makes sense as effectively if you want to use it then you can quite easily do so already so legalisation just brings those users into the mainstream whilst there is not a huge pent up demand (due to the afore mentioned wide availability currently) awaiting legalisation before using.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I'd widen the debate to cover decriminalisation of all drugs, to bring them under State control.

    However, the political world just isn't ready for that conversation yet.
    Absolutely. The evidence from Portugal is very encouraging.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Driving whilst stoned is currently an offence and would stay one so if the wife is going to try it you better hide the car keys!

    As for legalisation increasing use...there is a few mixed messages but largely the answer seems to be generally no and if it does then not by much. This makes sense as effectively if you want to use it then you can quite easily do so already so legalisation just brings those users into the mainstream whilst there is not a huge pent up demand (due to the afore mentioned wide availability currently) awaiting legalisation before using.
    If I want to use it now I have to go to an illegal dealer don't I? Your average punter doesn't like that connection.

    But with Britain being a nation of hedonists I'd imagine if it was freely available in the High St there will be a lot of folk trying dope who wouldn't otherwise.

    We don't know though, do we? Only time will tell.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    I dont get the comparisons between smoking and drinking, surely this is just giving folk another drug to use?

    Of course if its used as a solution to ill-health, and it works then i'm all for it. I'm just a bit worried there's not been sufficient research into its benefits and side effects yet for me personally to make an informed opinion.

    It might be a great thing for some diseases, and more research is a must, but its not at all clear what the long term is either way.

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    A lot of debate now about this and Canada has passed a law that makes recreational use legal.

    Not sure myself, could it lead to harder drug use?

    But if I was walking home on my own at 2am I would rather cross paths with a group of stoners than a group of drunks.
    Don't agree with it myself. I know a couple of folk who have had mental problems caused by cannabis usage.

    Russia used to have cheap vodka to numb the brains of it's population and hence help them to not think about what's really going on. I kinda wonder if this is going to be the West's version of that?

  23. #22
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Don't agree with it myself. I know a couple of folk who have had mental problems caused by cannabis usage.

    Russia used to have cheap vodka to numb the brains of it's population and hence help them to not think about what's really going on. I kinda wonder if this is going to be the West's version of that?
    Interesting thought! It's the sort of conspiracy theory that used to emanate from five-hour dope sessions back in the 70s.

    I reckon it's just that the stoned undergraduates of the 70s and 80s are now in charge.

  24. #23
    If you have a genuine interest this book is worth a read. Looks into both benefits and downsides, but in a way that someone who has never smoked can understand. He makes a comparison between wine connoisseurs and people who enjoy the different stains of weed, which I actually found quite interesting.I

    https://biblio.co.uk/9780747548522
    Last edited by beensaidbefore; 20-06-2018 at 10:53 PM.

  25. #24
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    If it puts the bitch in my stair that sells it out of business I'm all for it.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I'm no expert on drugs but have dealt with a few cases during my time as a paramedic and had a dabble as a teenager before deciding it wasn't for me.

    In all the years I never had a call to an incident where someone had O.D.'d on cannabis, never once did I have to treat someone for injuries resulting from cannabis invoked violence. However, I have seen many patients with neurological diseases who were regular users and many of those I dealt with who had problems with harder substances said the same thing over and over again, they all started by smoking joints and liked the social aspect of sharing hits with friends. One thing led to another and before they knew it they were hooked on something more sinister.

    That said of all the drug users I came across, the worst afflicted and by far the one that caused most problems was alcohol.

    Where do I stand on legalisation of cannabis? I think it would bring long term problems for both individuals and society as a whole, but it least it would be out in the open and more controllable with the ability to monitor the effects it has in a more transparent environment free of the stigma it has at present.
    I'm willing to bet that almost all of them started drinking alcohol before they started smoking cannabis. So maybe alcohol is the gateway drug?

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    It's a pathway drug. It creates a number of health problems.

    We're currently trying to reduce consumption of alcohol and cigarettes so why would we make legal something else that is harmful?

    The War on Drugs title was daft from the first day it was used. We don't talk about a 'War' on cancer, diabetes, malaria, poor mental health or suicide and yet we do want to try to reduce and eliminate these things.

    If we are going to give up on cannabis because we are struggling to enforce it why not just give up on a shed load of other things because they're too hard to enforce as well?

    Review for medical reasons sensible though.

    Lots of things that are harmful are legal. More people die every year from horse riding accidents than from taking ecstasy. Which is more harmful and which do you think is legal?

  28. #27
    Testimonial Due Stranraer's Avatar
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    I used to back legalisation until I read Peter Hitchens book "The War we Never Fought"... it gives an interesting alternative view as to why weed should remain illegal and tougher punishments should be handed out to those who use it.

  29. #28
    Coaching Staff sleeping giant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stranraer View Post
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    I used to back legalisation until I read Peter Hitchens book "The War we Never Fought"... it gives an interesting alternative view as to why weed should remain illegal and tougher punishments should be handed out to those who use it.
    Why on Earth would you want to punish people who use it ?

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stranraer View Post
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    I used to back legalisation until I read Peter Hitchens book "The War we Never Fought"... it gives an interesting alternative view as to why weed should remain illegal and tougher punishments should be handed out to those who use it.
    Really???

    Quote Originally Posted by sleeping giant View Post
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    Why on Earth would you want to punish people who use it ?
    You beat me to it!

  31. #30
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    I'm torn over this but edging towards the status quo, the status quo isn't brilliant but I can't see how the plentiful but legal availability will help those who need help most.
    We all know that cannabis isn't addictive but the feeling experienced after use can be. Many adults that I know to use cannabis do so because of other issues, a few to top up their legitimate meds, a couple of others because they've done so since they were a teenager and it's what works for them.
    Other adults I know that used to enjoy a smoke when younger don't partake so much these days. Either because they don't get off on it anymore, or they've "grown" up,,,,
    I'm also not sure how it would work for those that are employed in industries where there are drug tests. Many transport operators currently carry out urine based drug tests and a +ve for cannabis would result in instant dismissal. Legalisation would require this to be changed (I would think) and future screenings would have to be impairment based, i.e are you fit to work?!?
    Last edited by speedy_gonzales; 22-06-2018 at 04:55 PM.

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