World Cup VAR

[HIBEES 4 LIFE]

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I know. I just feel that deliberately scoring with your hand is just as serious cheating as stopping a goal.

When does the double jeopardy rule apply?

I agree completely, he should have been sent of from a footballing fans perspective. Think that handball simply comes under a different section of the law, where deliberate handball only must result in a free kick/penalty. And normally a booking, although the law does not state a punishment so the ref would be in his right to show any colour of card.

The new law applies to all obvious goal scoring opportunities, in the box, I think it's easier to implement when its handball preventing a goal as normally the ball is pretty much on the line (unlike Colombia's today may I add).

Also the new law only applies if the offending player makes a genuine attempt to play the ball (with a legal part of the body). So assuming the player tries to slide in and play the ball with his foot, misjudges it and then handles it on the way in. Its a Pen and yellow card. Or a player is running through on goal and the offender fouls but tries to play the ball then a pen and yellow card.

Its also only applicable inside the box as the "triple punishment" refers to Penalty, Red card and suspension.

[Hibbyradge]

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I agree completely, he should have been sent of from a footballing fans perspective. Think that handball simply comes under a different section of the law, where deliberate handball only must result in a free kick/penalty. And normally a booking, although the law does not state a punishment so the ref would be in his right to show any colour of card.

The new law applies to all obvious goal scoring opportunities, in the box, I think it's easier to implement when its handball preventing a goal as normally the ball is pretty much on the line (unlike Colombia's today may I add).

Also the new law only applies if the offending player makes a genuine attempt to play the ball (with a legal part of the body). So assuming the player tries to slide in and play the ball with his foot, misjudges it and then handles it on the way in. Its a Pen and yellow card. Or a player is running through on goal and the offender fouls but tries to play the ball then a pen and yellow card.

Its also only applicable inside the box as the "triple punishment" refers to Penalty, Red card and suspension.

Thanks.

I probably knew all that but I'm easily confused.

[HIBEES 4 LIFE]

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Thanks.

I probably knew all that but I'm easily confused.

Just like the offside rule, the more they change it the more it confuses everyone. If I didn't still play I'd not have a clue!

[blackpoolhibs]

Just watching the news down here, and there is a foul by John Stones who pushes his player before Kane is brought down by the centre half.

They were suggesting this is why no penalty was given by the VAR.

[Hibbyradge]

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Just watching the news down here, and there is a foul by John Stones who pushes his player before Kane is brought down by the centre half.

They were suggesting this is why no penalty was given by the VAR.

Maybe, but there were 2 incidents.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Maybe, but there were 2 incidents.

Aye they only mentioned the one where Kane was bundled over.

[Hibbyradge]

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Aye they only mentioned the one where Kane was bundled over.

It's a nonsense if they don't stop the grappling.

Kane was pulled over backwards and then flattened from behind and nowt given.

It's cheating just the same as when folk dive.

[Gordy M]

Not for me.....a couple of goals have been scored in the WC and the commentators have said oh wait checking VAR for a possible foul/offside.....totally ruined the moment.

[blackpoolhibs]

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It's a nonsense if they don't stop the grappling.

Kane was pulled over backwards and then flattened from behind and nowt given.

It's cheating just the same as when folk dive.

I agree, but if the ref has not seen it then i'd assume its then up to the VAR, and if they judge the first foul was by Stone, then there is no need to stop the game?

[Hibbyradge]

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I agree, but if the ref has not seen it then i'd assume its then up to the VAR, and if they judge the first foul was by Stone, then there is no need to stop the game?

I understand that, but why was the other one not given?

[blackpoolhibs]

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I understand that, but why was the other one not given?

I dont know, they never showed that one, just the one where Kane was bundled over. Perhaps something similar went on with that one too?

With the holding, defenders try and stop their player, forwards are grappling too, maybe they think its 6 of one and half dozen of the other, i really dont know.

All i have seen today is one reason why the one where he was bundled over may not have been given, as there was a clear foul by Stone before the one on Kane?

[snooky]

Do you think 'certain' clubs in the SPL will be in favour of VAR if it helps eliminates cheating and controversial decisions?

[Jim44]

I was indifferent to it till tonight but the farcical omissions in tonight’s game have turned me against it. On paper it sounds fine but the inconsistency of the guys running it makes it hit or miss.

[hibbysam]

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I understand that, but why was the other one not given?

The second one Kane grabs the defenders arm and pulls it over his own shoulder before collapsing to make it look like he was fouled. It’s acrhktk a great spot by the ref, fairly clever from Kane as he made the ref aware of the pulling etc before doing it.

[Stevie Reid]

I've obviously made clear that I'm not a fan, but last night was ridiculous. Argentina were awful and Croatia thoroughly deserved their win, but the first goal scorer should have been off - that tackle was an absolute shocker. Not sending him off was a clear and obvious mistake.

[Hibbyradge]

Are people really arguing that because it only helps to get some of the difficult decisions right, not all of them, it shouldn't be used at all?

The system, and the way it's used, is in its infancy. It will be tweaked and it will improve.

Some decisions will still be controversial because a human being is interpreting the images, but if it helps get more decisions right, then I'm all for it.

In any case, we might as well get used to it. It's here to stay.

[Stevie Reid]

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Are people really arguing that because it only helps to get some of the difficult decisions right, not all of them, it shouldn't be used at all?

The system, and the way it's used, is in its infancy. It will be tweaked and it will improve.

Some decisions will still be controversial because a human being is interpreting the images, but if it helps get more decisions right, then I'm all for it.

In any case, we might as well get used to it. It's here to stay.

On the flipside, why is your argument a justification for using it at all? If using it leads to getting some things right, and some things wrong, how are we any better off than before? The person ultimately making the decisions remains as fallible as ever, as has been shown in this WC.

[Hibbyradge]

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On the flipside, why is your argument a justification for using it at all? If using it leads to getting some things right, and some things wrong, how are we any better off than before? The person ultimately making the decisions remains as fallible as ever, as has been shown in this WC.

It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

[Stevie Reid]

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It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

Too early to say that.

I didn't claim it had reversed a correct decision.

[Hibbyradge]

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Too early to say that.

I didn't claim it had reversed a correct decision.

Ok. I wasn't sure.

In that case it's worth having.

The ref makes 2 wrong decisions. VAR helps correct one. That's 50% better than without the technology.

Another effect will be that it will eventually change players' behaviour. For example, if they know they'll get caught, the holding and grappling in the box will reduce.

That depends on how it's used, right enough.

[danhibees1875]

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It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

I guess it depends on what you call a "decision".

For me, and it is debatable, the decision to not award a penalty to France v Australia was correctly made until VAR was used and then the incorrect decision to award the penalty was taken.

[Stevie Reid]

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Ok. I wasn't sure.

In that case it's worth having.

The ref makes 2 wrong decisions. VAR helps correct one. That's 50% better than without the technology.

Another effect will be that it will eventually change players' behaviour. For example, if they know they'll get caught, the holding and grappling in the box will reduce.

That depends on how it's used, right enough.

That is certainly a potential benefit I would agree with. But then it won't ever be implemented at all levels of football, so it wouldn't be a universal benefit. Though I appreciate that as an advocate of goal line technology, that isn't going to be rolled out in Scottish League Two any time soon either

With regards to your point about two wrong decisions/one right, it isn't always that straight forward. Last night a foul was committed right in front of the referee that was a red card tackle for more than one reason - yet the referee not only booked him, but stood by his decision after apparently looking at it again. That guy then goes on to score the crucial first goal.

Croatia should've been down to ten men at 0-0 with most of the game still to play. Argentina (who I have little sympathy for, given how they played) might end up out now, and the decision has played a big part in it. The referee obviously has to have the final say, but it doesn't help when he arrogantly refuses to change his original decision in circumstances like last night. I find it hard to get excited about the odd contentious decision being ironed out, when things like that still happen.

I've seen a few pens given also - the South Korea one certainly overturned a bad error, but the first France one and the Australia one the other day were still contentious in my opinion.

I'm not saying that there are no benefits to it at all, there are - I just don't see it significantly moving the game forward. The fallibility of the referee remains the same as it did before. I'd much rather any money to be spent on it went towards making goal line technology an industry standard.

[Hibbyradge]

Let's revisit this discussion when the WC is over.

It's been used like this for only one week so I agree that it's too early to make a definite decision about it.

As it stands, I think it helps the game and it will evolve into a very useful tool.

However, I retain the right to change my mind should things with it go tits up.

[Stevie Reid]

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Let's revisit this discussion when the WC is over.

It's been used like this for only one week so I agree that it's too early to make a definite decision about it.

As it stands, I think it helps the game and it will evolve into a very useful tool.

However, I retain the right to change my mind should things with it go tits up.

[Ralphy C]

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It helps get more decisions right.

Has it been used to reverse a correct decision? If it has, I missed it.

It has in my opinion, the ref correctly denied Australia a pen yesterday until VAR got involved and he changed his mind.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I guess it depends on what you call a "decision".

For me, and it is debatable, the decision to not award a penalty to France v Australia was correctly made until VAR was used and then the incorrect decision to award the penalty was taken.

That's just an argument that you don't like the way arms in "unnatural positions" is refereed. If the ref had seen it in real time he'd have given the pen. It was pointed out to him he'd missed it so he gave it on review.

The same applies to the Harry Kane thing. Refs routinely ignore grappling in the box even though they plainly see it. They give the players a talking to and then allow it to continue. VAR yes/no is a completely separate discussion to that.

[Hibbyradge]

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That's just an argument that you don't like the way arms in "unnatural positions" is refereed. If the ref had seen it in real time he'd have given the pen. It was pointed out to him he'd missed it so he gave it on review.

That's a different incident.

He's referring to the trip/ dive.

[JeMeSouviens]

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That's a different incident.

He's referring to the trip/ dive.

Oops, saw Australia pen and mentally connected to the wrong one.

[matty_f]

I think the VAR is good, more decisions are correct and that's surely a good thing?

[Man Down Under]

Ads a bit of excitement watching back VAR, since it usually shows the correct answer and can end debate/arguments.
Extra time is always 4 or 5 mins too which makes the end of the game a bit more exciting.

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