The Impossible Job. BBC2

**Greentinted** · 17-06-2018 08:50 PM

Watching this with objective interest and it seems to me that the FA really do hang their team managers out to dry. Have little sympathy for the likes of Hoddle and Allardyce but Taylor was annihilated as was Robson.
Even while invoking rivalry it’s hard for most, surely, to divorce ourselves from basic human decency over something that is just a game.
And I quite liked Bobby Moore as well...(must be mellowing as I age)

***Mibbes Aye*** · 17-06-2018 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Greentinted

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Watching this with objective interest and it seems to me that the FA really do hang their team managers out to dry. Have little sympathy for the likes of Hoddle and Allardyce but Taylor was annihilated as was Robson.
Even while invoking rivalry it’s hard for most, surely, to divorce ourselves from basic human decency over something that is just a game.
And I quite liked Bobby Moore as well...(must be mellowing as I age)

Taylor and Robson were generally portrayed as decent people by those who knew them and were treated terribly by the tabloid media in their time.

I guess things have shifted now though - social media and news feeds have changed the dynamic, maybe for both the better and worse from when The Sun or the News Of The World could run a back-page that swung the mood of a country.

**hibsbollah** · 17-06-2018 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

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Taylor and Robson were generally portrayed as decent people by those who knew them and were treated terribly by the tabloid media in their time.

I guess things have shifted now though - social media and news feeds have changed the dynamic, maybe for both the better and worse from when The Sun or the News Of The World could run a back-page that swung the mood of a country.

One of the under reported benefits of social media maybe.

Unusually for me I like the current England manager. I like his low key approach, I like the way he didn't make a big deal about potential racism in Russia, ('we've got to get our own house in order as well' line was out of step with the redtop narrative but spot on in my opinion) , and he called out the sun for the ridiculous tattoogate story. Its obvious that The Sun was out of step with the public mood, and they ended up looking a bit stupid.

In pre internet days they would have run that story and there would have been no awareness that actually most people thought it was a lot of ballcocks. Turniphead Taylor scapegoating probably won't happen again,thankfully.

**Sammy7nil** · 18-06-2018 11:33 AM

What I remember most is guys taking on the England job with black hair and leaving in it with white hair.
Robson Taylor and Venables I think it causes a lot of stress

The expection being Capello but I think Wella for women hair dye played a part

***JimBHibees*** · 18-06-2018 12:20 PM

The behind the scenes documentary of Graham Taylor when England manager is a terrific watch.

***Winston Ingram*** · 18-06-2018 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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The behind the scenes documentary of Graham Taylor when England manager is a terrific watch.

It was.Unfortunately, for Taylor and Phil Neal out to look like total idiots.

***Jack Hackett*** · 18-06-2018 12:53 PM

When the knives are out, no one sticks them in quite like English red tops. Let it never be forgotten what the Sun did to Liverpool fans

... And the Scottish ones are just as bad, as we know from personal experience

**ben johnson** · 18-06-2018 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

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Taylor and Robson were generally portrayed as decent people by those who knew them and were treated terribly by the tabloid media in their time.

I guess things have shifted now though - social media and news feeds have changed the dynamic, maybe for both the better and worse from when The Sun or the News Of The World could run a back-page that swung the mood of a country.

Their front page political support for the Tories also played a part in the General Election results. The power of one newspaper hard to understand now but a powerful friend if you were looking for election to number 10. Disgrace really.

***Keith_M*** · 18-06-2018 01:14 PM

Bobby Robson was my favourite England Manager.

He was always a gentleman, showing great respect for other sides (even us Scots

). Plus what he achieved with Ipswitch had to be admired, no matter which club/country you favour.

**JeMeSouviens** · 18-06-2018 01:18 PM

It's amazing how long some of these guys lasted. Robson, already 6 years into the job, lost all 3 games at Euro 88 and didn't get sacked. These days there's no way that could happen.

Fabio Capello was ace. Basically said the players crapped themselves, "losers' excuses".

**Greentinted** · 18-06-2018 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Hackett

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When the knives are out, no one sticks them in quite like English red tops. Let it never be forgotten what the Sun did to Liverpool fans

... And the Scottish ones are just as bad, as we know from personal experience

I was quite surprised to hear Henry Winter basically admitting that the press pack were there to savage the managers. Very unpleasant.
Over the years, I (and many other Scots), have embraced the ABE attitude because of the OTT nonsense of the English (guising as ‘British’) media. But, in fairness, I’ve enjoyed a lot of England games (the 5-1 v Germany for example), even to the point where I genuinely wanted them to win the thing in 1990 - like many young(ish) football fans I was a Gazza fan.
To see how, in particular, Robson and of course, Graham Taylor, were treated remains a horrible sight. As I said, they were human beings and decent ones at that and while objective criticism is fair enough, unilateral abuse is disgraceful.
I remember really feeling for the guy when the documentary on Taylor was broadcast - it’s easily forgotten, or dismissed, that he had a very shallow talent pool to choose from. Carlton Palmer anyone?

***jacomo*** · 18-06-2018 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

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It's amazing how long some of these guys lasted. Robson, already 6 years into the job, lost all 3 games at Euro 88 and didn't get sacked. These days there's no way that could happen.

Fabio Capello was ace. Basically said the players crapped themselves, "losers' excuses".

But keeping him on was vindicated by Italia 90.

This new culture of sacking managers after every disappointment is often counter productive.

***AltheHibby*** · 18-06-2018 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by jacomo

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But keeping him on was vindicated by Italia 90.

This new culture of sacking managers after every disappointment is often counter productive.

I have to disagree there. Imagine he had gone and Cloughie was manager...

From an ABE view, thank goodness.
From an English view, f###ing idiots at the FA.

***JimBHibees*** · 18-06-2018 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Winston Ingram

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It was.Unfortunately, for Taylor and Phil Neal out to look like total idiots.

Just read an article about the making of that and 2 of the guys making it were Scottish. Apparently Lawrie McMeneny was against it and said at one point "imagine a Scotsman being in the English dressing room after a game, you'd never thought you would see the day".

Just on that point pretty sure there was a Scottish coach who coached the English team think his name was Bill Taylor also coached at Man City.

***snooky*** · 18-06-2018 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Greentinted

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Watching this with objective interest and it seems to me that the FA really do hang their team managers out to dry. Have little sympathy for the likes of Hoddle and Allardyce but Taylor was annihilated as was Robson.
Even while invoking rivalry it’s hard for most, surely, to divorce ourselves from basic human decency over something that is just a game.
And I quite liked Bobby Moore as well...(must be mellowing as I age)

Moore was a class player & a gentleman. He 'allegedly' once said "Give me 10 Scotsmen and I'll take on the world".
(Mind you, for all I know he could have been talking about a whisky drinking competition

)

**JeMeSouviens** · 18-06-2018 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by jacomo

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But keeping him on was vindicated by Italia 90.

This new culture of sacking managers after every disappointment is often counter productive.

I agree. I was just commenting on how much things have changed. I think it's inconceivable now that a manager could take England to the Euros, lose all 3 games and keep his job.

***blackpoolhibs*** · 18-06-2018 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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Just read an article about the making of that and 2 of the guys making it were Scottish. Apparently Lawrie McMeneny was against it and said at one point "imagine a Scotsman being in the English dressing room after a game, you'd never thought you would see the day".

Just on that point pretty sure there was a Scottish coach who coached the English team think his name was Bill Taylor also coached at Man City.

Sure they had a Scot coaching them when Hoddle was in charge, Gorman seems to ring a bell?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 18-06-2018 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

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Sure they had a Scot coaching them when Hoddle was in charge, Gorman seems to ring a bell?

John Gorman (played for Celtic) was Hoddle's assistant almost everywhere he went. They played together at Spurs IIRC.

***blackpoolhibs*** · 18-06-2018 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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John Gorman (played for Celtic) was Hoddle's assistant almost everywhere he went. They played together at Spurs IIRC.

Thats the man.

**ancient hibee** · 18-06-2018 03:27 PM

When England drew 0-0 with Uruguay in the first game in 1966 Desmond Hackett wondered in the Daily Express whether it was too late to replace Alf Ramsay as he clearly was not up to the job.