Save the Children

[CropleyWasGod]

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I had a look on kickback to garner further information on this deal. According to them the money is donated by 3 local businessmen, £500k to HMFC £500k to STC, £1m a year for the past 3 years and the next 3 years. That adds up to another £3m cash injected in to project HMFC on top of the £15m I’ve previously calculated. It really does highlight the big difference between us and them when it comes to finding suckers to inject cash in to a bottomless money pit. Good on them.

It would almost be worth it for those HMFC donor fans if it had translated in to results on the pitch but fortunately for us they seem to want to continue letting their incompetent manager/DOF continue with his money wasting sprees of average signings and the occasional galactico. We’re in the middle of Craigie Boy’s third Jambo clearance/replacement cycle at the moment aren’t we?

It really is an astonishing amount of cash to get them to where they are today. 6th.


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3 years at 500k pa is 1.5m
Less VAT of 2.5m.


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[cocteautwin]

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3 years at 500k pa is 1.5m
Less VAT of 2.5m.


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I had a little look in to the future: 4 x £500k plus 2 x £500k for the next 2 years. I have it as a deferred creditor on the balance sheet in my head. ;-)


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[CropleyWasGod]

.

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[CropleyWasGod]

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I had a little look in to the future: 4 x £500k plus 2 x £500k for the next 2 years. I have it as a deferred creditor on the balance sheet in my head. ;-)


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Less the VAT

The initial 1.5m has already been accounted for.

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[cocteautwin]

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Less the VAT

The initial 1.5m has already been accounted for.

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I don’t think anyone knows the true financial nature of the transaction, all just speculation. £0.5m pa seems a round enough figure to include each year with or without VAT. I hadn’t included the previous £1.5m in my £15m so we need to add in (in my head anyway) £1.5m + £0.5m to the £15m plus this years FOH contributions (round down to 0.5m?)

Running total of “additional’” cash injected in to HMFC project since admin:

£17.5m (+£1m in the next 2 years). Creeping up towards £20m.

Astonishing amounts when you think what it’s being spent on.





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[CropleyWasGod]

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I don’t think anyone knows the true financial nature of the transaction, all just speculation. £0.5m pa seems a round enough figure to include each year with or without VAT. I hadn’t included the previous £1.5m in my £15m so we need to add in (in my head anyway) £1.5m + £0.5m to the £15m plus this years FOH contributions (round down to 0.5m?)

Running total of “additional’” cash injected in to HMFC project since admin:

£17.5m (+£1m in the next 2 years). Creeping up towards £20m.

Astonishing amounts when you think what it’s being spent on.





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So. To sum up.

Nobody knows who's paying the sponsorship. Nobody knows how much it's costing. Nobody knows how much Hearts are getting.

But it's bad.

That about right?

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[monktonharp]

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I know they're our rivals and that, but having a go at them for putting a charity on their shirt and pretending it's dodgy is a bit sad no?

behave. there's a money angle in this. without a doubt. at it, again

[monktonharp]

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^^ Which is a good thing no?

A charity benefits from it and you’re trying to work an angle to try and show that Hearts are at it. Why not just say fair play and move on?!

you worked with Oxfam by any chance?

[monktonharp]

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So. To sum up.

Nobody knows who's paying the sponsorship. Nobody knows how much it's costing. Nobody knows how much Hearts are getting.

But it's bad.

That about right?

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sounds about right

[Bob1875]

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Does anyone know the VAT implications on this transaction?

If it was a normal sponsor then would HMFC have to invoice the sponsor the sponsorship amount plus 20% VAT which is then payable to HMRC? Can they get away with not charging the VAT if the customer is a registered charity? I suppose this would only work if donor was regularly giving charitable donations anyway, outside of the HMFC shell.

Dunno. Might be dodgy? Could it be dodgy?

I wonder if this needs to be added to the £15.5m calculation on amounts injected in to the Hearts project since Admin? On top of the £100m or so of outsider money they've had over the years.

You need to get a life, as do most folk on here. It’s a ******g football strip, with a sponsor, that’s all. The obsession with Hearts on here is another level sometimes. Just worry about them we play them at football.

[WhileTheChief..]

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you worked with Oxfam by any chance?

Not sure how you get that from my post but best I just to go with the ‘anything Hearts do is bad’ line I guess.

[heid the baw]

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You need to get a life, as do most folk on here. It’s a ******g football strip, with a sponsor, that’s all. The obsession with Hearts on here is another level sometimes. Just worry about them we play them at football.

Could not agree more

[FilipinoHibs]

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That's just not the case.

If Bet365 give HMFC £600k, they claim £100k back from the VATman. HMFC give £100k to the VATman. Net effect is HMFC up £500k, Bet365 down £500k, VAT neutral.

If a charity gives HMFC £500k, net effect is they're down £500k, HMFC up £500k, VAT neutral.

if a private individual gives HMFC £600k, they're down £600k, HMFC up £500k, VAT up £100k.


I've been marking exams this week, VAT included. Thus far, "delusional bollocks" is not a comment I've had to make. Thus far.

So let's say an individual called Mrs B gives STC 500k who then give it to HMFC. STC gets free advertising and Mrs B saves £100k?

[cocteautwin]

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So. To sum up.

Nobody knows who's paying the sponsorship. Nobody knows how much it's costing. Nobody knows how much Hearts are getting.

But it's bad.

That about right?

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LOL. We can only speculate and estimate.

[cocteautwin]

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You need to get a life, as do most folk on here. It’s a ******g football strip, with a sponsor, that’s all. The obsession with Hearts on here is another level sometimes. Just worry about them we play them at football.

Thanks Bob.

The point I’m trying to keep alive is the cash gap that currently exists between us and our near neighbours and has done so for most of my life.

Who knows what’s going to happen in a few years when they have capital projects paid off and can then start *****ing these “injections” on their team. Aberdeen have finished second for the last 4 years due to their bigger budget.

I grew up in the 80s and watched HMFC reap the rewards of a much bigger budget than HFC. To be honest I think they under achieved for the £100m that was sunk into that 30 year project.

It’s important that someone keeps tabs on the new post-admin project and occasionally has a peep on a whistle and points out they’re not doing it the same way as us.

Being a prudent individual myself I kinda like the calm measured long term approach we are taking to running the football club rather than a begging bowl, panic buying, money wasting approach that has been adopted over in Gorgie. Long may they continue to pay Malaury Martin his weekly wage for doing nothing apart clocking in for training.

I’ll be taking forward the figure of £17.5 + 1m in any future discussions on this matter :-)

[BSEJVT]

So the point of this thread was to highlight the fact that Hearts have an income stream that we are concerned about.

We can address that concern by contributing more (collectively or individually) to HSL

Its a lot simpler than the endless navel gazing over the terms of this sponsorship deal.

Btw one thing you can be absolutely sure of is that if you have ever done HMRC over in any way in the past your card is well and truly marked for the future and they will go to end of the earth to investigate you going forward and make sure ever last 1p is accounted for and paid to them.

I think we can be pretty relaxed that whatever the arrangement is that it is above board.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So let's say an individual called Mrs B gives STC 500k who then give it to HMFC. STC gets free advertising and Mrs B saves £100k?

She will get Gift Aid on the donation. Hearts will pay Corporation Tax. And it will be disclosed in the accounts.

Not sure why she would do that. She would get more tax relief by using a VAT-registered company to pay HMFC direct.





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[FilipinoHibs]

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She will get Gift Aid on the donation. Hearts will pay Corporation Tax. And it will be disclosed in the accounts.

Not sure why she would do that. She would get more tax relief by using a VAT-registered company to pay HMFC direct.





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But Mrs B remains anonymous but we all know it really is😀

[CropleyWasGod]

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But Mrs B remains anonymous but we all know it really is😀

We really don't.

[21.05.2016]

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I know they're our rivals and that, but having a go at them for putting a charity on their shirt and pretending it's dodgy is a bit sad no?

Nut **** them. They think they're so upstanding and righteous by having a charity on their jerseys, it'll never disgiuse the fact that have a very seedy past and not so long ago were robbing charities.

Their seedy past where they robbed and cheated just about every person/business/charity/public service etc. they came into contact with will never go away and nor it should. The club with absolutely no shame whatsoever. Not a single ounce of humility or remorse shown either, just back giving it the big un, gushing over how wonderful they were to save the club and now how magnificent they are at having a charity sponsor.

[Keith_M]

I'm confused, how much of the money is actually going to Save The Children?




I thought it was all going to Hearts, but people are discussing Gift Aid.

[danhibees1875]

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I'm confused, how much of the money is actually going to Save The Children?




I thought it was all going to Hearts, but people are discussing Gift Aid.

Is that people who think the hypothetical journey of the money is:

1) Donor to STC + gift aid
2) STC to hearts

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm confused, how much of the money is actually going to Save The Children?




I thought it was all going to Hearts, but people are discussing Gift Aid.

Nobody actually knows.

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[Billy Whizz]

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I'm confused, how much of the money is actually going to Save The Children?




I thought it was all going to Hearts, but people are discussing Gift Aid.

I asked this a bit further up, don’t know, and neither do Hearts fans. If I was a betting man, but I never bet, I’d think very little. What I think they get is exposure of their charity.
Clubs don’t have shirt sponsors, who pay them handsomely, and then give some of the sponsorship money away

[mca]

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I'd rather we had a charitable organisation as our sponsor than a gambling company whose motives/objectives are pretty much to do the exact opposite.

Google or internet search - Save the Children scandals..... our neighbours can have them.. imo..

[Mick O'Rourke]

Mysterious benefactor ploughs money into stand rebuild.
And mysterious benefactor did it again,when stand costs soared.
Stand still under construction,or at a standstill,as funds evaporate, so more cash may be required from mysterious benefactor.

Mysterious benefactor ploughs money in for shirt sponsor.

Baffles me why mysterious benefactor did not buy the club in the first place.

Mysterious benefactor has ploughed more cash into the club than The Budgie.

Is mysterious benefactor really The Budgie ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Mysterious benefactor ploughs money into stand rebuild.
And mysterious benefactor did it again,when stand costs soared.
Stand still under construction,or at a standstill,as funds evaporate, so more cash may be required from mysterious benefactor.

Mysterious benefactor ploughs money in for shirt sponsor.

Baffles me why mysterious benefactor did not buy the club in the first place.

Mysterious benefactor has ploughed more cash into the club than The Budgie.

Is mysterious benefactor really The Budgie ?

Is it just the one person?

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[Diclonius]

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You need to get a life, as do most folk on here. It’s a ******g football strip, with a sponsor, that’s all. The obsession with Hearts on here is another level sometimes. Just worry about them we play them at football.

Spot on.

The endless debate about who is more "moral" is tiring - we're two football clubs, not two political movements (as much as the OF like to think they're otherwise). The only thing that matters to me is beating them on the pitch, finishing above them in the league and them winning as little trophies as is humanly possible. Reminds me of the bad old days when we couldn't buy a win against them so looked for any non-footballing reason in which they were somehow worse than us (singing about Craig Thomson literally every time we were losing at Tynecastle springs to mind) so we could claim a "moral victory" instead.

The only thing that matters is beating them and beating them consistently.

[Billy Whizz]

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Is it just the one person?

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Similar thread on kickback, they love you Crops.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Similar thread on kickback, they love you Crops.

It's lust.

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