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  1. #7861
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Young Macron, his future wife and her (at that time) husband.

    Attachment 20996
    She was married to Alistair Darling!?


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  3. #7862
    @hibs.net private member Keekaboo's Avatar
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    The Crest on Croatia's Flag is NOT a Fascist symbol, just a symbol adopted by fascists, as the Croatian crest, during WWII. It had already been in use simply as the symbol of Croatia for a long time before that.

    This is really not like somebody using something like a Swastika on their Flag.

  4. #7863
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    FIFA have rules in place that clubs must release players so they can object all they like. Players themselves would have to refuse to play for international team.
    I wonder if the big European clubs really need Fifa (Uefa)? There comes a tipping point and Qatar 2022 may just be the catalyst for that. What do the owners of Madrid, Man City, PSG, etc care about international football, not a lot I say. Players enjoy it, but when it comes to the crunch money talks and clubs pay the wages.

  5. #7864
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keekaboo View Post
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    The Crest on Croatia's Flag is NOT a Fascist symbol, just a symbol adopted by fascists, as the Croatian crest, during WWII. It had already been in use simply as the symbol of Croatia for a long time before that.

    This is really not like somebody using something like a Swastika on their Flag.
    The swastika itself was not originally a Nazi symbol either. Rather a Hindu one which was appropriated in the same way as you're saying ( rightly) the Croatian one was.

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  6. #7865
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keekaboo View Post
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    The Crest on Croatia's Flag is NOT a Fascist symbol, just a symbol adopted by fascists, as the Croatian crest, during WWII. It had already been in use simply as the symbol of Croatia for a long time before that.

    This is really not like somebody using something like a Swastika on their Flag.
    The swastika is now a tainted symbol due to the Nazis but was in fact a symbol of peace and divinity. It was used in Eurasian religious symbolism and Hitler used it as he believed that was where the true Arians originated from
    Edit can't believe the world cup thread has taken this turn

  7. #7866
    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    I wonder if the big European clubs really need Fifa (Uefa)? There comes a tipping point and Qatar 2022 may just be the catalyst for that. What do the owners of Madrid, Man City, PSG, etc care about international football, not a lot I say. Players enjoy it, but when it comes to the crunch money talks and clubs pay the wages.
    When did "The World Cup" suddenly become the property of FIFA and become the pompously named "FIFA World Cup TM"???

  8. #7867
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McIntosh View Post
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    I considered liberty, equality and fraternity rather than the fascists symbols emblazoned on Croatia’s top. I am quite amazed by some of our fellow Hibs supporters who would quite rightly go nuts if Rangers decided to put 1690 on their top or brought out a Boyne special but yet turn a blind eye to the symbols of sectarian fascism.
    The Jews in France in the 40's, the Vietnamese in the 50's and the Algerians in the 60's might have a different view.

    As has been said, scratch a little bit of every country's past and you will find something to be critical of.

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  9. #7868
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Young Macron, his future wife and her (at that time) husband.

    Attachment 20996
    Wow. Little bit creepy.

  10. #7869
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson View Post
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    He'd have been drawn and quartered wether he was hung or not.
    😂😂

  11. #7870
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee View Post
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    Ya f***er, I just found a Jaffa Cake in the cupboard


    Any good?

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    "I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"

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  12. #7871
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    I watched the final in a campsite in France. They had public viewing but the picture was so ***** I went back to the caravan to watch it. I watched it on german TV via satellite that was about 45 seconds ahead of the French transmission. Every time a goal was scored my wee boy would run out and start celebrating and the French were wondering wtf was going on. After they cottoned on to what was happening most of them came over to my gaff and brought their tipple with them. Great day and one for the wee man's memory bank.

  13. #7872
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    I just watched a superb 2 1/2 hour documentary of France's World Cup campaign from their last warm-up friendlies to the final itself. The camera followed them everywhere - hotels, training, pre match team talks, post match debriefings and the changing room itself.

    A few things stood out.

    Unbelievable team spirit. No prima donnas or bigheadedness - everything was about looking out for the guy next to you.

    Deschamps is a class act. Immediately after their first match (Australia) he congratulated the players without going over the top then ripped them a new one at the debriefing the following day, but without raising his voice once. He also included himself in criticism where appropriate.

    Paul Pogba - what a guy to have in the changing room. Lloris might be captain but it was Pogba who did all the motivational speeches, some of which will no doubt be quoted for years to come.

    In the changing room after the final, Deschamps gathered the squad round him and said - "In the days, months and years to come you'll all go your own ways, but there's one thing that will always tie you together - this (the trophy in his hand). But one thing's certain, you'll be changed men when you wake up tomorrow, because you're WORLD CHAMPIONS (the only time he raised his voice).

    I was nearly greeting.

  14. #7873
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    I just watched a superb 2 1/2 hour documentary of France's World Cup campaign from their last warm-up friendlies to the final itself. The camera followed them everywhere - hotels, training, pre match team talks, post match debriefings and the changing room itself.

    A few things stood out.

    Unbelievable team spirit. No prima donnas or bigheadedness - everything was about looking out for the guy next to you.

    Deschamps is a class act. Immediately after their first match (Australia) he congratulated the players without going over the top then ripped them a new one at the debriefing the following day, but without raising his voice once. He also included himself in criticism where appropriate.

    Paul Pogba - what a guy to have in the changing room. Lloris might be captain but it was Pogba who did all the motivational speeches, some of which will no doubt be quoted for years to come.

    In the changing room after the final, Deschamps gathered the squad round him and said - "In the days, months and years to come you'll all go your own ways, but there's one thing that will always tie you together - this (the trophy in his hand). But one thing's certain, you'll be changed men when you wake up tomorrow, because you're WORLD CHAMPIONS (the only time he raised his voice).

    I was nearly greeting.
    That sounds amazing.

    I wish I could watch that in English.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £1,789.68!



  15. #7874
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Pogba's pre final speech.

    "Guys... I don't want to say too much. We all know where we are, we all know what we want. We all know what we've been through to get here.

    We know. In our hearts, in our eyes, we're focused.

    Guys, don't forget, I'm maybe going to repeat myself, we're 90 minutes from possibly making history. 90 minutes! One match!

    We've played I don't know how many matches in our lives, but this is a match that changes everything, it changes history.

    There are two teams, there's one cup. They're the same. They want it. We already lost a final, we know, it still hurts. Today we're not going to let another team take what's ours.

    I want that tonight we'll be in the memory of all French people who watch. Their children, their grandchildren and even their great-grandchildren. Today we're 90 minutes from entering history forever. Forever guys!

    Looking at you now I'm not going to shout. I want us to enter the pitch as leaders, as warriors. And after, I want to see tears, not tears of sadness but tears of joy while hugging/kissing each other on the pitch.

    (I reckon he pinched from SDG)

  16. #7875
    @hibs.net private member Deansy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    I just watched a superb 2 1/2 hour documentary of France's World Cup campaign from their last warm-up friendlies to the final itself. The camera followed them everywhere - hotels, training, pre match team talks, post match debriefings and the changing room itself.

    A few things stood out.

    Unbelievable team spirit. No prima donnas or bigheadedness - everything was about looking out for the guy next to you.

    Deschamps is a class act. Immediately after their first match (Australia) he congratulated the players without going over the top then ripped them a new one at the debriefing the following day, but without raising his voice once. He also included himself in criticism where appropriate.

    Paul Pogba - what a guy to have in the changing room. Lloris might be captain but it was Pogba who did all the motivational speeches, some of which will no doubt be quoted for years to come.

    In the changing room after the final, Deschamps gathered the squad round him and said - "In the days, months and years to come you'll all go your own ways, but there's one thing that will always tie you together - this (the trophy in his hand). But one thing's certain, you'll be changed men when you wake up tomorrow, because you're WORLD CHAMPIONS (the only time he raised his voice).

    I was nearly greeting.
    What was the title of the documentary and do you know if there was subtitles - I'd absolutely love to watch it ??

  17. #7876
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deansy View Post
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    What was the title of the documentary and do you know if there was subtitles - I'd absolutely love to watch it ??
    It's called "Les Bleus 2018 - au cœur de l'épopée russe"

    It's in 2 parts that they showed one after the other tonight on TF1, the French equivalent of ITV.

    I'd be very surprised if it doesn't appear on the web as it's a great watch for any football fan.

  18. #7877
    @hibs.net private member Deansy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    It's called "Les Bleus 2018 - au cœur de l'épopée russe"

    It's in 2 parts that they showed one after the other tonight on TF1, the French equivalent of ITV.

    I'd be very surprised if it doesn't appear on the web as it's a great watch for any football fan.
    Cheers mate - haven't found anything yet but did find this piece of info -

    'Amazon has acquired second-window rights in France from July 20 and first-window rights in the rest of the world. The show will be available to stream on Amazon internationally from October 1, except in Brazil where it will be released on January 1'

    I'll look out for it !

  19. #7878
    #dotnettopboiz SteveHFC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deansy View Post
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    Cheers mate - haven't found anything yet but did find this piece of info -

    'Amazon has acquired second-window rights in France from July 20 and first-window rights in the rest of the world. The show will be available to stream on Amazon internationally from October 1, except in Brazil where it will be released on January 1'

    I'll look out for it !
    Looking forward to watching this.
    Less talk, more gifs. 21.05.16

  20. #7879
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHFC View Post
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    Looking forward to watching this.
    I'll only be interested if Lawrenson is doing the English language version.

  21. #7880
    Does it show Griezmann practising his dive? And does if interview the ref and congratulate him on handing Les Bleus a two goal start? I was scunnered by the by the dive and the penalty award.

  22. #7881
    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I'll only be interested if Lawrenson is doing the English language version.
    I’d have to sadly give it a miss if that were the case!

  23. #7882
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    I just watched a superb 2 1/2 hour documentary of France's World Cup campaign from their last warm-up friendlies to the final itself. The camera followed them everywhere - hotels, training, pre match team talks, post match debriefings and the changing room itself.

    A few things stood out.

    Unbelievable team spirit. No prima donnas or bigheadedness - everything was about looking out for the guy next to you.

    Deschamps is a class act. Immediately after their first match (Australia) he congratulated the players without going over the top then ripped them a new one at the debriefing the following day, but without raising his voice once. He also included himself in criticism where appropriate.

    Paul Pogba - what a guy to have in the changing room. Lloris might be captain but it was Pogba who did all the motivational speeches, some of which will no doubt be quoted for years to come.

    In the changing room after the final, Deschamps gathered the squad round him and said - "In the days, months and years to come you'll all go your own ways, but there's one thing that will always tie you together - this (the trophy in his hand). But one thing's certain, you'll be changed men when you wake up tomorrow, because you're WORLD CHAMPIONS (the only time he raised his voice).

    I was nearly greeting.
    I'm gripped just from reading your post about it. Hope I can get my hands (or rather my eyes) on this

  24. #7883
    Quote Originally Posted by Keekaboo View Post
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    The Crest on Croatia's Flag is NOT a Fascist symbol, just a symbol adopted by fascists, as the Croatian crest, during WWII. It had already been in use simply as the symbol of Croatia for a long time before that.

    This is really not like somebody using something like a Swastika on their Flag.
    There is a subtlety I think being missed about the Croat flag. The current Croatian flag is this:



    The nazi-era one looked like this:



    Note the pattern of the red and white checks has been inverted.

    So apparently you can show support for historical facism by using a flag with a white check at the top left.

  25. #7884
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    There is a subtlety I think being missed about the Croat flag.

    Note the pattern of the red and white checks has been inverted.

    So apparently you can show support for historical facism by using a flag with a white check at the top left.
    Only in some people's minds.

    The elephant in the room of course that the one true fascist dictator involved in the final was in the stands and called Putin.

  26. #7885
    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    I'm gripped just from reading your post about it. Hope I can get my hands (or rather my eyes) on this
    there is a man utd page on twitter showing it, manutdupdate i think its called

  27. #7886
    Quote Originally Posted by McIntosh View Post
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    it amazes me that you read the articles and could not or would not see that minorities who had been victims recognised the symbolism and objected to it. As for it being a bit telling about me, well it probably is .......I would never support a team which is strongly associated with sectarianism, racism, xenophobia and extreme right wing politics. Maybe I am just a more principled human being than you. By your logic you will be better supporting Rangers as they are surely a “likeable and inoffensive team”.
    So I read this this morning and honestly, it´s laughable pal. The two articles you linked to are:

    1. There is a serious problem with the correct rememberance of the holocaust, and Croatia´s place in it, in the Croatian state. This is lamentable, and must be tackled by people there. However, the development of commemoration there cannot be compared to other, more noted countries with similar legacies, as Croatia became an independent nation state in 1991. Germany did too, I suppose, but her constant occupation by the Allies post-war somewhat skews this.

    2. The Croatian President posed with a version of the Croatian flag including a version of the Croatian crest (with a change in the order of the chequers) which was adopted by the Fascist puppet state of Croatia under Nazi Germany. This puppet state committed various awful atrocities, in the opinion of some surpassing the ferocity and savagery of the Nazis themselves.

    The president shrugged off the event, saying there was nothing controversial about it. By your aggressive tone I assume you think this is nonsense, but what proof do you have otherwise? Is it not just as likely that she posed for the photograph without checking the exact version of the crest used and misjudged her response when it was brought up to her? Well we can look at her record. Yes, there is an issue with Croatian nationalist identity, and the associations with the WWII puppet state. But equally, when a petition was raised to include elements of this previous regime in the military, she dismissed it out of hand as ´frivolous, unacceptable and provocative´. She makes a clear distinction that Croatia has it´s foundations in the War of Independence in the 90s, and that the Ustase was a criminal regime. Equally, while her government´s reaction to the migrant crisis was mixed, it was noted as being extremely humane, and much must be considered in the context of the actions of many neighbours, most notably the entrance to the EU in Slovenia. She is also in favour of abortion and a legal status equivalent to marriage for LGBT couples, despite being a Roman Catholic. She should certainly have reacted differently, of course. I don´t know enough about her to judge her fully, but on the balance of what you´ve presented as evidence and what reading I´ve managed to do in 20 minutes, I´m honestly inclined to disagree with you that this is part of a sinister plot to create a fascist state in modern Croatia. This would be backed up by the time, albeit limited, that I have spent there.

    Your choice of source (never good form to exclusively use 1, by the way) is valid and of quality, but likely to have a (correctly and understandably) sensitive view of these issues.

    Others have gone into the problem of judging sports teams by the connotations raised by the flag of their nation or their colours, especially if those flags have been previously co-opted by fascist or nationalist regimes. So would we condemn the French if their colours represented the tricolor? It is, after all, a small adaptation away from the flag of Vichy France. So would we condemn the Italians if their jersey was red white and green? It is, after all, a small adaptation away from the flag of Mussolini´s Italy. So would we condemn the Spanish if their colours represented the Spanish flag? It is, after all, a small adaptation away from the flag of Franco´s Spain.

    The answer is of course we wouldn´t/don´t. And before you point out it is about the current government policy, you´ve not succesfully linked that the Croatian government or society is proactively fascist or nostalgic for fascism in a way that couldn´t be easily suggested by two selective articles covering France, Italy or Spain. The difference between all of these cases and the swastika is so basic it doesn´t need to be covered.



    So, "I would never support a team which is strongly associated with sectarianism, racism, xenophobia and extreme right wing politics." Good for you, well done! But you´ve not shown that the Croatian Government, let alone the FOOTBALL team, is strongly associated to this in any way. Maybe, unless sports people or teams explicitly express a political opinion, we shouldn´t apply those to them.



    Finally, you´ve said previously that your in your 6th decade so here´s a wee tip for you. If you make a point and someone asks you to elaborate, and then disagrees with you, not always best to assume that they´re bad and wrong. Maybe they have a different perspective, or you have knowledge that they don´t that you could share, maybe you could change their mind. But if you say that you´re more principled than someone, it doesn´t make you seem so. It makes you look pompous, arrogant and frankly a bit silly. Especially when you´ve never spoken to someone before and all you know about them or their beliefs is that they disagree with you on a single issue. Just to bear in mind for the future.



    Happy to carry on if you have some other info to send as a PM, I'm happy to be openminded. But don´t think we should hijack the WC thread for it anymore.

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