James Connolly was born in the Cowgate 150 years ago today

[IngolstadtHarry]

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anybody recommend a decent book about him and/or the events leading to Irish independence?

Here is a link to the new edition of Greaves - not expensive at all. ;-)


http://www.calton-books.co.uk/books/...smond-greaves/

[Stokesy's on fire]

I think there is currently a movie being made about JC and i cant wait to see it.

[chinaman]

One of our own !

[Keith_M]

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....
I would urge all those who know little about his life to do some reading - especially those such as Darlington, Barca and Keekaboo who are writing from a position of profound ignorance.
....

OK, and I would encourage you to read what I actually wrote in my comment. I said nothing disparaging whatsoever about Connolly or anything he stood for.

I made the point that I'd rather we recognized those who made a major contribution to Hibs, for football reasons, rather than get involved in the divisive politics of Ireland and leave that to the fans of Rangers and Celtc.

I'm sorry if you're so small minded that you can't accept other people's views but that's mine, whether you like it or not.

[Allant1981]

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I think there is currently a movie being made about JC and i cant wait to see it.

sure ive seen one already, liam neeson possibly starring in it

[IngolstadtHarry]

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OK, and I would encourage you to read what I actually wrote in my comment. I said nothing disparaging whatsoever about Connolly or anything he stood for.

I made the point that I'd rather we recognized those who made a major contribution to Hibs, for football reasons, rather than get involved in the divisive politics of Ireland and leave that to the fans of Rangers and Celtc.

I'm sorry if you're so small minded that you can't accept other people's views but that's mine, whether you like it or not.

That shows me that you know absolutely zilch about Connolly.
Connolly was an internationalist who wished to spread socialism to the entire world. He specifically said that Irish independence, achieved without the establishment of a socialist republic, would merely be transferring the 'ownership' of the workers from one set of landlords to another. Drop what you've been told about Connolly, drop the knee-jerking, and read a book.

[AndyM_1875]

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I have been to Kilmainham Gaol Dublin stonebreaking yard coldest place on earth where he was executed by the British in 1916 propped against the wall still in his stretcher. RIP

I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.

[IngolstadtHarry]

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I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.

Absolutely right - something that Connolly fought against with his whole being.

[barcahibs]

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That shows me that you know absolutely zilch about Connolly.
Connolly was an internationalist who wished to spread socialism to the entire world. He specifically said that Irish independence, achieved without the establishment of a socialist republic, would merely be transferring the 'ownership' of the workers from one set of landlords to another. Drop what you've been told about Connolly, drop the knee-jerking, and read a book.

You don't think Irish politics within the context of football in Scotland is divisive... Have you been to Scotland before?

This is the whole point. You have one view of Connolly, it's clearly important to you, to the extant that you're happy to insult fellow Hibs fans who don't share it.

The fact is that your views on the political figure that is James Connolly are your views and your opinions, you're 100% entitled to them, many Hibs fans will share some or all of them, but they're just your views. Many other Hibs fans will disagree - which shouldnt ever prevent them being welcome at Easter Road.

There is no such thing as historical fact. What if someone comes on here and questions Connolly's views on mass democtacy? The morality of launching a violent revolution when he did not enjoy the popular support of the Irish people? His views on the tens of thousands of Irishmen who fought for the British army in the Great war?

What if they recommended Sean O’Callaghan’s James Connolly: My Search for the Man, the Myth and His Legacy which links Connolly with fanaticism, hatred and "lust for revenge".

You don't see how any of that could be divisive? Centuries old Irish politics have done enough to damage football in this country without dragging us into it.

Ps for the avoidance of doubt i am not claiming to support any of the views above. I'm not interested enough in Irish politics to really care. But plenty of other people do support them and their historical and political views are just as valid as yours within the contect of a football stadium.

[green leaves]

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Here is a link to the new edition of Greaves - not expensive at all. ;-)


http://www.calton-books.co.uk/books/...smond-greaves/

thanks,is there a kindle edition?

[One Day Soon]

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I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.

Along with thousands of other working class people from all over Britain.

This thread is screaming for the Holy Ground.

[IngolstadtHarry]

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thanks,is there a kindle edition?

Check on the Connolly Association Facebook page - they should have all the info.

[offshorehibby]

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Do the JCS still march? Genuine question as I was under the impression they had decided to stop marching a few years back and now have a small gathering each year in the Cowgate.

I know there are a few Republican flute bands still try to get out and annoy people around this time but I don't think they are 'official'.

They still commemorate every year where the plaque is. They took the decision around the time of the good Friday agreement that it would inappropriate to hold the marches. The JCS are still strongly supported in the Edinburgh area.
http://www.jamesconnollysociety.com/

[IngolstadtHarry]

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You don't think Irish politics within the context of football in Scotland is divisive... Have you been to Scotland before?

This is the whole point. You have one view of Connolly, it's clearly important to you, to the extant that you're happy to insult fellow Hibs fans who don't share it.

The fact is that your views on the political figure that is James Connolly are your views and your opinions, you're 100% entitled to them, many Hibs fans will share some or all of them, but they're just your views. Many other Hibs fans will disagree - which shouldnt ever prevent them being welcome at Easter Road.

There is no such thing as historical fact. What if someone comes on here and questions Connolly's views on mass democtacy? The morality of launching a violent revolution when he did not enjoy the popular support of the Irish people? His views on the tens of thousands of Irishmen who fought for the British army in the Great war?

What if they recommended Sean O’Callaghan’s James Connolly: My Search for the Man, the Myth and His Legacy which links Connolly with fanaticism, hatred and "lust for revenge".

You don't see how any of that could be divisive? Centuries old Irish politics have done enough to damage football in this country without dragging us into it.

Ps for the avoidance of doubt i am not claiming to support any of the views above. I'm not interested enough in Irish politics to really care. But plenty of other people do support them and their historical and political views are just as valid as yours within the contect of a football stadium.

Geezes, this is preposterous nonsense. Why do you keep droning on about Ireland, Irish history and football? I think we must be talking about different people and I can't believe that you actually understood what I wrote.

[WhileTheChief..]

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And there were probably many who hadn't heard of James Clerk Maxwell or Patrick Geddes until their statues were erected.

I’ve never heard of either of those names and had no idea that there are statues for them.

As for naming a stand after Connolly, that will rightly never happen. He may be an important figure to some people but not nearly enough.

There aren’t that many socialists into Irish republicanism that support Hibs!

[One Day Soon]

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Geezes, this is preposterous nonsense. Why do you keep droning on about Ireland, Irish history and football? I think we must be talking about different people and I can't believe that you actually understood what I wrote.

Perhaps because James Connolly is inextricably linked to Ireland, Irish history and - in this context - football? If he wasn't we probably wouldn't be discussing him at all.

[Albanian Hibs]

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One of our own !

One of my family's own as well 💚

[barcahibs]

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Geezes, this is preposterous nonsense. Why do you keep droning on about Ireland, Irish history and football? I think we must be talking about different people and I can't believe that you actually understood what I wrote.

Yeah... See, again with the insults to someone who may (or may not, you still don't know) disagree with you. Which leaves me biting my tongue not to send an insult back. To a fellow Hibs fan, over politics (and ok we can pretend this isn't about Irish politics if you like but even then there are many, many Hibs fans who don't believe in Socialism, Marxism, Internationalism - you name it ism).

If you don't want to see it that's fine. But yiur hero isn't everyone's hero. If the Connolly society (or the Margaret Thatcher society come to that) want to build a football stadium and name a stand after him (or her) then brilliant.

But not at Easter Road where political opinions should be irrelevant.

[CMurdoch]

Ingolstadt Harry, you are clearly far more interested in politics than football.

You joined this site in 2012 and your 31 posts, to date, began with a number of posts asking for a ticket and transport for the 2012 cup final. Fair enough.
You didn't post again until 2017 when you popped up on 2 Israel related posts where you told folk how ignorant they were to hold their views.
You pop up next on a Rangers v Hibs match thread probably looking for a stream (i haven't checked)
This week you pop up to tell us about James Connolly and once again tell those who don't hold your views that they are ignorant.

So in 5 years of being a member of this site you have not joined in any Hibs football related thread other than to try to get a ticket, transport or a stream.
Please go and play politics somewhere else and leave us simple folks to chat and worry about Hibs in the 21st century.

[ancient hibee]

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Ingolstadt Harry, you are clearly far more interested in politics than football.

You joined this site in 2012 and your 31 posts, to date, began with a number of posts asking for a ticket and transport for the 2012 cup final. Fair enough.
You didn't post again until 2017 when you popped up on 2 Israel related posts where you told folk how ignorant they were to hold their views.
You pop up next on a Rangers v Hibs match thread probably looking for a stream (i haven't checked)
This week you pop up to tell us about James Connolly and once again tell those who don't hold your views that they are ignorant.

So in 5 years of being a member of this site you have not joined in any Hibs football related thread other than to try to get a ticket, transport or a stream.
Please go and play politics somewhere else and leave us simple folks to chat and worry about Hibs in the 21st century.

[Fanforlife]

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I'm sorry you feel that way it's not a smarmy attempt to Ejukate people who have no interest in such discussions but surely we can discuss someone like Connolly and those with no interest can just ignore the thread ...... I do dislike those with either no interest or no understanding of Connolly still attempting to pigeon hole him as one side of a sectarian dispute ......it is so far removed from the truth as the man was a visionary who's every move was based on attempts to remove the stain of sectarianism from Ireland and to do that required the removal of Britain who played the sectarian card there to prevent a unified independence movement against them ....a tact we are still paying the price fir to this day

Great post.Encapsulates the very essence of a Great Man.😀

[Iggy Pope]

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One of my family's own as well 💚

[Iggy Pope]

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I have always wanted to visit that place.

Reading the history of what happened, that was another monumental blunder by the British.
In killing him and his comrades they turned them into martyrs.
Connolly was dying and would have been dead from his wounds in a day or so. The fact that these idiots had to prop him up in a chair to then shoot him shows how stupid they actually were.

Then again we should not be surprised at British stupidity as they were about to send thousands of working class Scots to their deaths at the Somme that very same year.

Kilmainhim is an interesting and very eerie visit. I haven't been in nearly 30 years but it is a desperate surrounding to imagine.

Binding a man to a chair in order to shoot him, a man who couldn't stand unsupported, broken at the feet with no medical treatment, sums up more than the stupidity of our of our nation. It speaks volumes of our absolute cowardice.
And for what it's worth, I think the stand naming suggestion was probably tongue-in-cheek. However, I'd rename the Cowgate instead. A statue is probably the very least that Edinburgh should be considering.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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A Coogate lad and Hibbie, Connolly truly is a local hero to many in the Hibs family and its quite right that his 150th anniversary should be acknowledged on here.

Connollys role in furthering workers rights both in his own city of birth, Ireland and the USA was a truly influential achievement. His central belief that the working class of all religions had more in common with each other than their masters and should work together to improve their conditions is the absolute opposite of sectarianism. He also had a healthy cynicism for organised religion, most notably when standing against his local parish priest in the Edinburgh council elections for the St Giles ward.

So when people come on here and knee jerk spout about "mini Celtic", "religion" and "sectarianism" it just shows the level of ignorance there is about him in his own city. For them id suggest having a read of "The Life and Times of James Connolly" by Desmond C Greaves which not only details his political achievements but also the abject poverty and hardship faced by the community which founded our club.

I don't think he should have a stand named after him but i do think he deserves more mainstream recognition in his own city than the plaque in the Cowgate.

I don't think anybody theorising that Hibs commemorating James Connolly would be bad for the club is doing that based on their ignorance of Connolly or of the social deprivation that spawned him and the club. Its not our ( in your words ) ignorance of Irish political history, the social history of Edinburgh or James Connolly himself that would be the problem, its the public perception of Connolly or any other prominent figure in the history of Irish republicanism which would be the problem ...... any move by Hibs to commemorate Connolly in any official way would result in the club being seen to align itself publicly to the cause of a united Ireland .... if that preception displays an ignorance of the subject by the population at large that is indeed a shame, but it still wont help Hibs when the inevitable backlash occurs. If you don't think there would be one then you are deluding yourself.

Take my word for it .... Hibs being seen as getting involved in religion, sectarianism and being painted a 'mini Celtic' would be exactly what would happen and no matter how wrong such accusations would be they would be inevitable and even if just some of the mud stuck it would damage our club .... in view of that no matter how noble it would be to ignore the nay sayers and do it anyway its something anybody with the good of Hibernian football club at heart just cant want the club to get involved in.

[green leaves]

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Check on the Connolly Association Facebook page - they should have all the info.

thanks

[Brizo]

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I don't think anybody theorising that Hibs commemorating James Connolly would be bad for the club is doing that based on their ignorance of Connolly or of the social deprivation that spawned him and the club. Its not our ( in your words ) ignorance of Irish political history, the social history of Edinburgh or James Connolly himself that would be the problem, its the public perception of Connolly or any other prominent figure in the history of Irish republicanism which would be the problem ...... any move by Hibs to commemorate Connolly in any official way would result in the club being seen to align itself publicly to the cause of a united Ireland .... if that preception displays an ignorance of the subject by the population at large that is indeed a shame, but it still wont help Hibs when the inevitable backlash occurs. If you don't think there would be one then you are deluding yourself.

Take my word for it .... Hibs being seen as getting involved in religion, sectarianism and being painted a 'mini Celtic' would be exactly what would happen and no matter how wrong such accusations would be they would be inevitable and even if just some of the mud stuck it would damage our club .... in view of that no matter how noble it would be to ignore the nay sayers and do it anyway its something anybody with the good of Hibernian football club at heart just cant want the club to get involved in.

Nowhere in my post did I make any assertion that Hibernian FC should formally associate themselves with James Connolly in any way so maybe you should read my post again

In fact I quite clearly said in my final sentence was that I wouldn't want to see a stand named after him which had been suggested by some posters. What I did say was that as a son of the Coogate and a Hibs fan it was quite fitting that his anniversary be acknowledged on dot net. That is a totally different thing from what you are implying I said !

i have absolutely no interest in Hibernian FC acknowledging James Connolly in any way, shape or form but I do think that he deserves to be commemorated by the City of Edinburgh to a far greater degree than he has been. Unfortunately the default position of so many when Connolly is mentioned is the stereotyped nonsense that some on here have been guilty of and so its highly unlikely to happen.

I hope this is clear enough for you to understand !

[IngolstadtHarry]

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Ingolstadt Harry, you are clearly far more interested in politics than football.

You joined this site in 2012 and your 31 posts, to date, began with a number of posts asking for a ticket and transport for the 2012 cup final. Fair enough.
You didn't post again until 2017 when you popped up on 2 Israel related posts where you told folk how ignorant they were to hold their views.
You pop up next on a Rangers v Hibs match thread probably looking for a stream (i haven't checked)
This week you pop up to tell us about James Connolly and once again tell those who don't hold your views that they are ignorant.

So in 5 years of being a member of this site you have not joined in any Hibs football related thread other than to try to get a ticket, transport or a stream.
Please go and play politics somewhere else and leave us simple folks to chat and worry about Hibs in the 21st century.

You are obviously not an admin because in such a case you wouldn't have found the time to obsessively stalk the posts of other members.
I am generally a reader rather than a writer and am grateful (as a Hibby living abroad) to have been generously helped by Edinburgh-based fellow-members who have neither questioned my loyalty to the club nor trawled through my posts before offering their assisstance. Even though I don't live in Scotland, I have as much right as you to express my political opinions, ask about streams, enquire about tickets or anything else which is within the rules set by the administrators of this site. So don't try to tell me where to go or whom to leave alone, son.

[Stanton]

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Although his lifes work was to defend the poor and gain humanitarian and working rights for people in so much poverty his legacy will always be aligned with the Irish Catholic struggle against the British government. When they now March around with Irish flags in Edinburgh in his honour these days, people who see this only think that it the opposite of the Orange mob doing the same unfortunately and the religious connotations that it has. That's why I mentioned religion and to remove it from the clubs forward thinking attitudes.

Not having a go at you personally here my friend but once again here lies the myth and ignorance of Irelands desire for self determination. It is not and never has been an Irish Catholic struggle. There was a struggle forcatholic emancipation and the discontinuation of the catholic penal laws in Ireland but that was a generally peaceful mass movement under Daniel O'Connell and not geared towards independence , purely geared towards law change and equality for Catholics.

Irelands struggle for independence has NEVER been linked to Catholicism. Prominent Protestants have featured and played most important roles throughout. In fact the RC church was often at odds and in dispute with physical force Republicans.
Prominent Protestants fighting for Ireland against Britain included, Theobald Wolfe-Tone , Robert Emmet , Bulmer Hobson , Countess Markievicz , Jack White ( Deputy to Connolly in the Irish citizen Army ) , Roger Casement ( executed 1916 ) , Robert erskine Childers , Robert Barton , Ernest Blythe , Sam Maguire ( the GAA play each year for the Sam Maguire cup ) , Douglas Hyde ( first president of the Irish Republic ) .....even up to the more recent conflict , Protestants killed fighting on the Irish Republican side include David Russell , John Turnley , Ronnie Bunting , Noel Lyttle and Tom Berry.

Highlighting this fact doesn't fit in with the " sectarian narrative " we are fed by our media.

[Eyrie]

This thread has plenty of praise for Connolly's admirable commitment to socialism and Irish independence but no football discussion.

So at what point will the admins actually move it to the Holy Ground as a number of posters (including myself and several who have praised Connolly) have requested? Or answer those requests with an explanation of why it is still here?

[Golden Bear]

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This thread has plenty of praise for Connolly's admirable commitment to socialism and Irish independence but no football discussion.

So at what point will the admins actually move it to the Holy Ground as a number of posters (including myself and several who have praised Connolly) have requested? Or answer those requests with an explanation of why it is still here?

Well said that man. I've just logged on and I'm disappointed that this particular thread hasn't been sent to the political forum where it certainly belongs.