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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Trips View Post
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    The position of him for Hartley freekick was shocking. I think the whole stadium knew that was going in.
    TBF not much different from Rocky in the semi final last season.


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr White View Post
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    When the players in question are getting paid over £100k per week I think it's easier to put it down to a horrible mistake for the first that shot the guy's confidence. Then the second mistake followed an almost unsaveable overhead kick of course.

    Surely the amounts of cash required to convince a player to make a near career destroying mistake (or two) in a CL final would be fairly difficult to disguise... unless you've got his immediate family bound and gagged in a lock-up somewhere.

    He made a bad mistake. He didn't recover mentally and he made another one. It happens at every level of sport. Nothing to do with sinister motives or irregular betting patterns IMO.
    I'd tend to agree. If you are going to do it, it wouldn't be in such a big game . It's just very unusual to see it happen.

    I just thought it a bit mean that his team mates didn't go to him.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I'd tend to agree. If you are going to do it, it wouldn't be in such a big game . It's just very unusual to see it happen.

    I just thought it a bit mean that his team mates didn't go to him.
    I agree with the second part. I can't see how it could possibly have been worth his while to have chucked them in deliberately though.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chic Murray View Post
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    I'd tend to agree. If you are going to do it, it wouldn't be in such a big game . It's just very unusual to see it happen.

    I just thought it a bit mean that his team mates didn't go to him.
    Not mean at all. As a player you bust your guts to get to a Euro cup final and your goalie let's in a goal that would embarrass a five year old schoolboy then does another equally as bad in the same game. One, you could give some rope to, but two, I don't think so.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member Johnny_Leith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Not mean at all. As a player you bust your guts to get to a Euro cup final and your goalie let's in a goal that would embarrass a five year old schoolboy then does another equally as bad in the same game. One, you could show some empathy, but two, I don't think so.
    Yup, it's understandable. As he's been poor all season I'm not surprised at the reaction at the time. If he'd been outstanding and made those mistakes then they'd have supported him on the pitch. I guess there was a mix of choice words and support in the dressing room.

  7. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Not mean at all. As a player you bust your guts to get to a Euro cup final and your goalie let's in a goal that would embarrass a five year old schoolboy then does another equally as bad in the same game. One, you could give some rope to, but two, I don't think so.
    I would love you as a team mate - well maybe not

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy7nil View Post
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    I would love you as a team mate - well maybe not
    I was trying to think how I'd feel if I was one of the Liverpool players immediately after the final whistle. I don't think I would have felt in a very compassionate mood at that moment, though I suppose I might feel differently once the adrenalin subsided

  9. #38
    Coaching Staff 21.05.2016's Avatar
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    It says it all when rival fans cheer when your keepers name is read out in the starting XI. Can't say I blame them though, they knew with him in goals they were guarenteed at least 1 gift wrapped goal.

    It was a shame because obviously he didn't mean to be bad, he was just a very poor keeper but you could tell he just lost all confidence, especially in derbies where he had all the hearts fans taking the piss.

    He certainly isn't alone in nightmare keepers we've had though.

    Makalamby
    Tony Caig
    Simon Brown
    Greame Smith
    Mark Brown
    Andy McNeil (fair enough he was part of the 2007 cup winning side but he was very prone to howlers)

  10. #39
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    Though Karius was at fault for the 3rd goal, I felt the 1st goal was dodgy, if he had kicked the ball and the forward stuck a foot out its a foul for harassing the keeper, why is it different for a throw out?
    If a player jumps in front of a player taking a throw in its a foul or is told to move back, I would have thought throwing from hand should have been the same?
    If you think back to George Best taking the ball of the keeper and scoring as the keeper let the ball drop to kick it, it was deemed a foul and is the reason we have that in todays rules!

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Monts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by where'stheslope View Post
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    Though Karius was at fault for the 3rd goal, I felt the 1st goal was dodgy, if he had kicked the ball and the forward stuck a foot out its a foul for harassing the keeper, why is it different for a throw out?
    If a player jumps in front of a player taking a throw in its a foul or is told to move back, I would have thought throwing from hand should have been the same?
    If you think back to George Best taking the ball of the keeper and scoring as the keeper let the ball drop to kick it, it was deemed a foul and is the reason we have that in todays rules!
    Sean Murdoch (our ex keeper) thinks similarly.

    https://twitter.com/sean_murdoch_/st...929653248?s=19

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by where'stheslope View Post
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    Though Karius was at fault for the 3rd goal, I felt the 1st goal was dodgy, if he had kicked the ball and the forward stuck a foot out its a foul for harassing the keeper, why is it different for a throw out?
    If a player jumps in front of a player taking a throw in its a foul or is told to move back, I would have thought throwing from hand should have been the same?
    If you think back to George Best taking the ball of the keeper and scoring as the keeper let the ball drop to kick it, it was deemed a foul and is the reason we have that in todays rules!
    He had thrown it a few yards. It wasn't even close to being a foul.

    The ref on the BT coverage agreed.

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  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member HibbyAndy's Avatar
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    He's absolutely garbage.

    That's the be all and end all , Liverpool need a better keeper than this mug , If that's harsh then so be it .

  14. #43
    I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

    First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

    The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

    Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

    I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

    I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.
    PM Awards General Poster of The Year 2015, 2016, 2017. Probably robbed in other years

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

    First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

    The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

    Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

    I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

    I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.

  16. #45
    Coaching Staff 21.05.2016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

    First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

    The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

    Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

    I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

    I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.
    I agree. Some of the reaction last night on social media was totally disgusting but I suspect the majority of those people were simply caught up in frustration in the heat of the moment. Absolutely no excuse whatsoever for some of the comments, particularly the family threats and death wishes etc but hopefully now that things have calmed down a little bit they look back on what they said and realise it was completely out of order, over the top and feel a sense of shame.

    I worry about the mental health of Karius. He will undoubtably be feeling extremely low and on top of that he's now recieved horrendous abuse and threats. He will be in a very dark place right now. I hope to God Liverpool offer him all the help and support they possibly can and that he doesn't fall into a seriously dark frame of mind.

    If I was him I would leave Liverpool this summer as this is always going to hang over him there. Find a new club, rebuild your career, at 24 you're still young enough. I guess some would argue that the right thing to do would be to stay at Liverpool and try to make it up to them but I just think that would be a hell of a lot of pressure for the guy.

  17. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    He had thrown it a few yards. It wasn't even close to being a foul.

    The ref on the BT coverage agreed.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    I think 9 times out of 10 the ref gives a foul there. Generally that is how the referees apply that rule and I think they’re right to do so.

    If it happened at the other end last night I think the ref gives a foul

  18. #47
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

    First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

    The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

    Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

    I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

    I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.
    Ive already said my piece on what a good second half of the season Karius has had, the fact of which will of course be lost in the furore in tomorrows papers because context doesn't provide good copy. A decent side will pick him up at less than what hes actually worth and, assuming he deals with the whole horrible situation emotionally and psychologically, he'll be back.

    In terms of technique, the first one is just horrendous, regardless of the generally context you quite correctly describe. I disagree that its understandable, its totally inexplicable, Benzema barely has to stick out his leg because Karius has almost thrown it right at him! I think what happens at the third goal is he sets himself for a standard high save with his hands in a W and then he changes his mind at the last minute and decides to punch it away, probably hes a bit frazzled at this point and his decision making has gone. The balls moving too fast and he's changed his mind how to deal with it too late. So it looks terrible. But to me it makes more sense as a mistake than the first one.

    It was the most extreme example of what all goalkeepers have to deal with at some level. I agree that mistakes have been made by more prestigious players, the DeGea example is one i make a lot myself, Lawrenson and the rest of the blowhards had the boy written off after a month in England as terrible and a waste of money. But in terms of the nature of the mistakes and the size of the stage, Ive never seen anything like last night and i really felt for him.

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member stantonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Ive already said my piece on what a good second half of the season Karius has had, the fact of which will of course be lost in the furore in tomorrows papers because context doesn't provide good copy. A decent side will pick him up at less than what hes actually worth and, assuming he deals with the whole horrible situation emotionally and psychologically, he'll be back.

    In terms of technique, the first one is just horrendous, regardless of the generally context you quite correctly describe. I disagree that its understandable, its totally inexplicable, Benzema barely has to stick out his leg because Karius has almost thrown it right at him! I think what happens at the third goal is he sets himself for a standard high save with his hands in a W and then he changes his mind at the last minute and decides to punch it away, probably hes a bit frazzled at this point and his decision making has gone. The balls moving too fast and he's changed his mind how to deal with it too late. So it looks terrible. But to me it makes more sense as a mistake than the first one.

    It was the most extreme example of what all goalkeepers have to deal with at some level. I agree that mistakes have been made by more prestigious players, the DeGea example is one i make a lot myself, Lawrenson and the rest of the blowhards had the boy written off after a month in England as terrible and a waste of money. But in terms of the nature of the mistakes and the size of the stage, Ive never seen anything like last night and i really felt for him.

    Agree.....i think we've all seen something like the 2nd mistake before......but I don't recall seeing anything like the first howler.

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    I think 9 times out of 10 the ref gives a foul there. Generally that is how the referees apply that rule and I think they’re right to do so.

    If it happened at the other end last night I think the ref gives a foul
    Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.

  21. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

    First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

    The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

    Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

    I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

    I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.
    Pretty Boy.

    Whatever happened to YNWA?

    They win as a team lose as a team. Heads went down when Ramos did Salah.

    Hypocrits! Shankly must be burling in his grave.
    Last edited by BILLYHIBS; 27-05-2018 at 09:22 PM. Reason: spelling

  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.
    I'm glad you have said this. I was going to say exactly that but I thought I would just be accused of having an agenda.

    How anyone can say that was a foul is beyond me.

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    I'm glad you have said this. I was going to say exactly that but I thought I would just be accused of having an agenda.

    How anyone can say that was a foul is beyond me.
    Retired ref guy that BT Sports pay fortunes for forget his name says legitimate goal good enough for me though hear what previous poster says as have played loads of amateur football where every game is played at 100 mph like a running fight totally different scenario GOAL!!

  24. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.
    When he’s in the process of releasing the ball, Benzema is trying to prevent him from doing so. Benzema is stretching before the ball is released.

    IMO it’s like Makalambay against Aberdeen where he kicked it off Lee Millers back. Because they are both dodgy keepers, people scoff at the mistake and they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. The ref would normally penalise both those goals.

    The interpretation of the rule normally is that the forward basically needs to get out the keepers way and the ball isn’t necessarily considered to be released as soon as it’s left the goalies hands.

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Why would the ref give a foul? I think you are mistaking last night for incidents where the attacker is much closer and prevents the keeper from throwing it. Benzema had to stretch to make contact and the ball was well released. Never a foul in a million years, a mixture of poor goal keeping and great predatory instincts from a striker.
    Absolutely no way in this world was that a foul.

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Ive already said my piece on what a good second half of the season Karius has had, the fact of which will of course be lost in the furore in tomorrows papers because context doesn't provide good copy. A decent side will pick him up at less than what hes actually worth and, assuming he deals with the whole horrible situation emotionally and psychologically, he'll be back.

    In terms of technique, the first one is just horrendous, regardless of the generally context you quite correctly describe. I disagree that its understandable, its totally inexplicable, Benzema barely has to stick out his leg because Karius has almost thrown it right at him! I think what happens at the third goal is he sets himself for a standard high save with his hands in a W and then he changes his mind at the last minute and decides to punch it away, probably hes a bit frazzled at this point and his decision making has gone. The balls moving too fast and he's changed his mind how to deal with it too late. So it looks terrible. But to me it makes more sense as a mistake than the first one.

    It was the most extreme example of what all goalkeepers have to deal with at some level. I agree that mistakes have been made by more prestigious players, the DeGea example is one i make a lot myself, Lawrenson and the rest of the blowhards had the boy written off after a month in England as terrible and a waste of money. But in terms of the nature of the mistakes and the size of the stage, Ive never seen anything like last night and i really felt for him.
    I thought it looked like the other way round he was going to punch then decided to catch but very weak hands.

  27. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I posted a bit about this last night but bowed out because it all got a bit silly. Talk about the guy throwing the biggest game of his life or that he should have removed himself from the Liverpool squad because he should assess his own abilities as inferior to that required was just madness.

    First things first a lot has been made over the years of Liverpool fans being unique, a bit ‘different’ or somehow a cut above. I’m not sure if it’s a tag they choose to identify with but it’s certainly one the media have given them. This seems to me a great opportunity for them to prove it; they could really rally behind Karius, at least in the short term, and prove YNWA isn’t just empty words. As it stands it seems they have reacted like any other fans, some are backing him and others are slating him.

    The guy has made a couple of mistakes in a huge game. The 1st one I have some sympathy with. In amateur football keepers get no time on the ball, roll it out to kick it and you’ll have a balding 30 something ambling towards you looking vaguely threatening or a super keen 21 year old sprinting at you full throttle. Try to throw it to a defender and 3 guys are round him in seconds. As you move up the levels keepers get far more time on the ball as the opposition generally want them to hit it long so it’s a 50/50 contest. 99% of the time a striker wouldn’t stick his leg out the way Benzema has, top level strikers rarely waste energy chasing or reaching for ‘lost causes’. It’s an error but I can almost see how he’s allowed it to happen. The 3rd one is to some extent harder to explain and just looks like a guy who has gone to pieces and panicked when he has seen that ball flying towards him. For all it was a howler there was a lot of pace on the ball, the speed it hit the net is proof of that, and his hands just look very tense.

    Ultimately though good goalkeepers make mistakes. Manuel Neuer was once beaten from 35 yards inside the opposition half because he misjudged the flight of the ball, Peter Schmeichel sliced a kick that saw Man Utd eliminated from the FA cup v Barnsley, Jim Leighton lost his Man Utd and Scotland places in a matter of weeks in 1990, David De Gea, almost unrivalled in the world at the moment imo, had a very difficult start at Man Utd, Pat Bonner was beaten by a far softer shot than last nights at the 94 World Cup and cost Ireland any chance in the match, Zubizaretta pushed a nothing cross into his own net at the 98 World Cup and Spain went out in the group stages because of it, David Seaman was lobbed from distance on 2 separate occasions years part, I remember watching Buffon let a pass back slide under his foot and cost Juventus a goal v Atalanta a few years back, Tim Weise of Werder Bremen flopped over to try and waste a few seconds after collecting a cross in a Champions League last 16 tie and inexplicably dropped the ball at a Juventus players feet. The list of goalkeeping errors is almost infinite and a lot of the guys on that list were world class and all the others played at the top level. I think you can certainly question Karius last night but moments like that have happened to better keepers than him, thy have happened to worse keepers than him and they will happen again.

    I understand that a lot of the Liverpool players were wrapped up in their own emotions but someone should have went to Karius sooner than they did. He looked close to shock and was visibly shaking as a few of the Madrid players went to him. A fair few ex pros agreed that the reaction was poor. At some point in their careers almost all of those guys will make an error that will cost their team a point, a cup final place or whatever. Such is the life of a keeper that when they do it it’s glaringly obvious to everyone. If a midfielder makes an error he can almost hide, a keeper make a mistake they are right back in the firing line. Whoever plays in goal for Liverpool next season is going to be under unbelievable scrutiny and it’s going to take some broad shoulders to handle that pressure. There have been suggestions Buffon may be a target and that seems a great short term choice, huge character and still a more than decent keeper. He’d handle it.

    I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been there can really appreciate the loneliness of a goalkeeper who has made a mistake, it’s one of the worst feelings in the world and it applies across the levels. I really hope Karius can get his head right and go on to have a good career, he’s a young lad and he’s being big enough to front up to his errors both in action by going to the fans and in words by admitting his mistakes; that takes character and impresses me, it would have been easy to hide. I think his time at Liverpool is probably coming to a close but at 24 he has plenty time to go away and rebuild. Mistakes happen and it’s how he deals with it that will define him from now.
    That ^ is Hibs class :)

  28. #57
    Professional thread starter Diclonius's Avatar
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    If us and Hearts had swapped Zibi and Gordon at the start of 05-06 we would have been pushing for 2nd for the following two seasons.

  29. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
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    When he’s in the process of releasing the ball, Benzema is trying to prevent him from doing so. Benzema is stretching before the ball is released.

    IMO it’s like Makalambay against Aberdeen where he kicked it off Lee Millers back. Because they are both dodgy keepers, people scoff at the mistake and they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. The ref would normally penalise both those goals.

    The interpretation of the rule normally is that the forward basically needs to get out the keepers way and the ball isn’t necessarily considered to be released as soon as it’s left the goalies hands.
    There is no way it is a free kick. There is nothing dangerous about Benzema 's intervention. The keeper was careless and got penalised. If he threw it over arm instead of under arm we would not be having this debate.

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammy7nil View Post
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    There is no way it is a free kick. There is nothing dangerous about Benzema 's intervention. The keeper was careless and got penalised. If he threw it over arm instead of under arm we would not be having this debate.
    Duff goalkeeping in my opinion. Nothing wrong with the goal. It was an interception by the player, of course that's just my opinion. Others may disagree.
    Last edited by snooky; 28-05-2018 at 09:12 AM.

  31. #60
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Death threats apparently. Some LFC fans have been taking Shankly's famous line too literally.

    it's just a game. Or do some folk have nothing else in their lives? So it seems.

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