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Thread: 8th Amendment

  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    8th Amendment

    Such a nerve wracking day tmrw in Ireland. Vote to remove the 8th amendment from the constitution equal right to life for unborn and mother).

    Iíve been manning campaign stalls to say yes to removing (pro choice) but no idea if itís going to go through. Been a horrible campaign with the No side getting pretty nasty. Obviously the having the backing of the Catholic Church who donít have the best record with babies or single mums. The hypocrisy is unreal.

    At the moment if thereís a sign of heartbeat a women canít receive cancer treatment, they have to carry full term even with fatal fetal abnormalities, victims of rape, incest....If this one amendment doesnít go nothing can change & women can be jailed for 14 years for abortion in ireland..

    The stories iíve heard from so many have been heartbreaking.
    Last edited by Dalianwanda; 24-05-2018 at 12:12 PM.


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Good luck.

    I have had the odd bit of vote No media pop up on my Facebook feed recently but hadn't looked into it much - didn't realise it was so soon.

    For a variety of reasons, I'm pro choice. Have there been many opinion polls taken/does it look tight at the moment?
    Mon the Hibs.

  4. #3
    I never really know where I am on abortion but the idea that the foetus and mother have equal status seems utterly stupid.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    No one is Ďpro abortioní itís not something that anyone wants but in certain cases itís needed.

    Around 3000 women a year travel to uk for one 2/3 a day buy online abortion pills. Irish healthcare professionals canít do or say anything.

    I donít see this as a vote on abortion (thatís still going to happen). Itís about making it safe and legal or unsafe and illegal making the women in Ireland 2nd class citizens with no say on what they feel is best for them.

    Iím in a rural area where the church still has loads of say. Hopefully those 125k coming back to vote and the cities can see it through.

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    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Good luck.

    I have had the odd bit of vote No media pop up on my Facebook feed recently but hadn't looked into it much - didn't realise it was so soon.

    For a variety of reasons, I'm pro choice. Have there been many opinion polls taken/does it look tight at the moment?
    Thanks. Iím witnessing the vote tally on saturday. Gonna be a tense affair!

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I never really know where I am on abortion but the idea that the foetus and mother have equal status seems utterly stupid.
    That one line effects so many things. It has really opened my eyes. As soon as a heartbeat is located, equal status is granted.

  8. #7
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Broadly speaking I take a fairly negative view of abortion however it cannot be right that a country bans abortion in cases of rape or incest or cases where the baby will not survive past birth. I think that is a totally ridiculous position to take and I think it's quite possible to find a happy medium between the status quo in Ireland and a complete legalisation of abortion.

    It's obviously up to the people of Ireland to decide but that would be my take on the issue.
    HIBERNIAN F.C. - SCOTTISH CUP WINNERS 2016

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  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    Broadly speaking I take a fairly negative view of abortion however it cannot be right that a country bans abortion in cases of rape or incest or cases where the baby will not survive past birth. I think that is a totally ridiculous position to take and I think it's quite possible to find a happy medium between the status quo in Ireland and a complete legalisation of abortion.

    It's obviously up to the people of Ireland to decide but that would be my take on the issue.
    Thats the problem the 8th reads 'The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.'

    It can only be removed through a refurendum vote. Its that restrictive its not legally possible to do a 'happy medium'. There can be changes to whats allowed and not allowed after its gone but at the moment unborn & mother are equal.

  10. #9
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalianwanda View Post
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    Thats the problem the 8th reads 'The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.'

    It can only be removed through a refurendum vote. Its that restrictive its not legally possible to do a 'happy medium'. There can be changes to whats allowed and not allowed after its gone but at the moment unborn & mother are equal.
    I understand what you're saying but I just think that with this referendum, should the Yes vote win and abortion is legalised, it's unlikely that it will be revisited and any restrictions placed on it in the future.
    HIBERNIAN F.C. - SCOTTISH CUP WINNERS 2016

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  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    I understand what you're saying but I just think that with this referendum, should the Yes vote win and abortion is legalised, it's unlikely that it will be revisited and any restrictions placed on it in the future.
    I understand you but the No vote means stay as it is. itís been this way for the last 35 years. Women have died, women have been ostriicised, women have felt shame and second class citizens.

    If a women is raped gets pregnant and aborts her sentence is potentially higher than that of the rapist.

    If the church/pro life hadnít pushed for such a strong amendment to be included in the first place there was a chance of adaptions. Itís a ***** state of affairs. But yes is the only option if any kind of change can happen. The no side are now saying itís too far and letís look at compromise. There can be no compromise without losing the amendment. Has the bang of devomax about it.
    Last edited by Dalianwanda; 24-05-2018 at 08:10 PM.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalianwanda View Post
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    I understand you but the No vote means stay as it is. itís been this way for the last 35 years. Women have died, women have been ostriicised, women have felt shame and second class citizens.

    If a women is raped gets pregnant and aborts her sentence is potentially higher than that of the rapist.

    If the church/pro life hadnít pushed for such a strong amendment to be included in the first place there was a chance of adaptions. Itís a ***** state of affairs. But yes is the only option if any kind of change can happen. The no side are now saying itís too far and letís look at compromise. There can be no compromise without losing the amendment. Has the bang of devomax about it.
    Good luck today, J. Lots of ladies are on the march back home to vote.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    I understand what you're saying but I just think that with this referendum, should the Yes vote win and abortion is legalised, it's unlikely that it will be revisited and any restrictions placed on it in the future.
    What restrictions would you like put on it? I think the obvious one is how many weeks pregnant the woman is.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Good luck today, J. Lots of ladies are on the march back home to vote.
    Thanks so much. Itís been such an emotive emotional few weeks in the run up. Couldnít help shed a tear seeing all those coming back through arrivals.

    Iím witnessing the tally tmrw. Gonna have to meditate like **** to keep emotions in check. Ironically itís being held in an old church!?

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    @hibs.net private member superbam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalianwanda View Post
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    Thanks so much. Itís been such an emotive emotional few weeks in the run up. Couldnít help shed a tear seeing all those coming back through arrivals.

    Iím witnessing the tally tmrw. Gonna have to meditate like **** to keep emotions in check. Ironically itís being held in an old church!?
    Been campaigning for Yes in Dublin and although, from the neighborhoods ive covered at least, there is a majority that are inclined to repeal, there are a lot of folk, particularly younger men, who want repeal but dont seem to think its their concern to actually vote. A little concerned about that, despite the generally favourable polling.

  16. #15
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. S View Post
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    What restrictions would you like put on it? I think the obvious one is how many weeks pregnant the woman is.
    As a disabled person, I am extremely concerned about the availability of abortion in cases where the baby is going to be born with a disability. Under UK law there is no clarity on this other than to say that it allows for an abortion to be performed when the baby will be born with a "serious condition". Clearly that definition is very ambiguous to say the least.

    I am not comfortable with a blanket ban on abortion as I have already said. The fact that Ireland forbids women who have become pregnant as a result of being raped, for example, from having an abortion is clearly unacceptable and I would think that most right minded people would agree with that.

    However I am equally uncomfortable with the idea that legalising abortion is automatically a sign of a society becoming more progressive and liberal and is assumed to be a move forward. In some ways I think it could be viewed as the opposite.

    I think a lot more effort should be put into sex education and teaching people from a young age about taking personal responsibility for their sexual behaviour and taking precautions. Yes mistakes do happen and it isn't a guaranteed approach to avoiding an unwanted pregnancy but I think that's where the time and money should be focussed on, rather than just opening up abortions to everyone.
    HIBERNIAN F.C. - SCOTTISH CUP WINNERS 2016

    21.05.2016

  17. #16
    I think there has to be give and take from both sides. I agree with the right to abortion in certain situations like rape and incest for example and only up to a certain number of weeks however I wouldnt want it to become a method of birth control.

    I think at a certain point the state needs to step in with protection for the unborn life that is defenseless.

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=IGRIGI;5414390]I think there has to be give and take from both sides. I agree with the right to abortion in certain situations like rape and incest for example and only up to a certain number of weeks however I wouldnt want it to become a method of birth control.

    I think at a certain point the state needs to step in with protection for the unborn life that is defenseless.

    Do you honestly think a women would willingly use abortion as birth control? The state has stepped in with help of so many experts to say 12 weeks is the maximum.

    The majority of abortions come from failed contraception.
    Last edited by Dalianwanda; 25-05-2018 at 05:30 PM.

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    As a disabled person, I am extremely concerned about the availability of abortion in cases where the baby is going to be born with a disability. Under UK law there is no clarity on this other than to say that it allows for an abortion to be performed when the baby will be born with a "serious condition". Clearly that definition is very ambiguous to say the least.

    I am not comfortable with a blanket ban on abortion as I have already said. The fact that Ireland forbids women who have become pregnant as a result of being raped, for example, from having an abortion is clearly unacceptable and I would think that most right minded people would agree with that.

    However I am equally uncomfortable with the idea that legalising abortion is automatically a sign of a society becoming more progressive and liberal and is assumed to be a move forward. In some ways I think it could be viewed as the opposite.

    I think a lot more effort should be put into sex education and teaching people from a young age about taking personal responsibility for their sexual behaviour and taking precautions. Yes mistakes do happen and it isn't a guaranteed approach to avoiding an unwanted pregnancy but I think that's where the time and money should be focussed on, rather than just opening up abortions to everyone.
    Iíll agree with you that there needs to be a greater emphasis on sex education. In ireland itís practically non existent.

    Again without removing the 8th doesnít matter what changes people think are right and wrong. Nothing can change.
    Last edited by Dalianwanda; 26-05-2018 at 03:23 PM.

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbam View Post
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    Been campaigning for Yes in Dublin and although, from the neighborhoods ive covered at least, there is a majority that are inclined to repeal, there are a lot of folk, particularly younger men, who want repeal but dont seem to think its their concern to actually vote. A little concerned about that, despite the generally favourable polling.
    Yeah similar here...I did a video the other day to try and knock heads together on that point. Was out at stall today and have to say all very positive. Most positive day since i started.

  21. #20
    It's looking like pro, Ireland may be about to move into the 21st century.

  22. #21
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    It's looking like pro, Ireland may be about to move into the 21st century.
    Whilst England is moving back to the 18th Century!

    Positive result, I think for Ireland. Makes NI the most backwards place in Europe.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Lovely Tweet that says so much....

    Just a reminder to all those who did vote No, nothing has changed for you. Nothing. Not. A. Thing. You can still believe in the same things. You can still proceed in the same way. All that has changed is that others now have a choice. Itís all we wanted x

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Lovely Tweet that says so much....

    Just a reminder to all those who did vote No, nothing has changed for you. Nothing. Not. A. Thing. You can still believe in the same things. You can still proceed in the same way. All that has changed is that others now have a choice. Itís all we wanted x

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Just back from tallying the counts..What an amazing day for the people of Ireland in so many ways.

    Thatís a wonderful quote...Iím in Sligo linked heavily with WB Yates. In 1925 he said ďI have said that this is a tolerant country. I have no doubt whatever that, when the iceberg melts it will become an exceedingly tolerant country.Ē

    Itís melted.

  25. #24
    Is there access to free protection (the coil, implant etc) for women in Ireland or is that just UK?

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member Dalianwanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish hibee View Post
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    Is there access to free protection (the coil, implant etc) for women in Ireland or is that just UK?
    nope...At least Ä50 for a GP visit to start. Extremely low income may get medical card but coil not covered.

  27. #26
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    It's one in the eye for the church.

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