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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Glory Lurker View Post
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    Pardon?
    The expression 'Tartan Tories' doesn't even begin to describe a vast number of the snp membership. They're more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves in my opinion of course and would impose a post breakaway austerity never felt before. It would impact most on those on low incomes, sick and disabled and those on benefits as the government finances would be in meltdown and may or may not recover in due course over a period of many years thereafter. That may a price worth paying for those who are quite fanatical regarding independence. Labour are the only true left wing party who will fight against austerity whether its against tory cuts or in the huge if the nationalists ever get their way and the financial meltdown that would undoubtedly occur.

    Jeremy Corbyn may have some faults in his make up however he is a man of undoubted left wing principles and would re install many of the good values we have lost after many years of right wing rule if we vote Labour back into Westminster. Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is also doing a fine job after being voted in as leader.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!


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  3. #92
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    The expression 'Tartan Tories' doesn't even begin to describe a vast number of the snp membership. They're more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves in my opinion of course and would impose a post breakaway austerity never felt before. It would impact most on those on low incomes, sick and disabled and those on benefits as the government finances would be in meltdown and may or may not recover in due course over a period of many years thereafter. That may a price worth paying for those who are quite fanatical regarding independence. Labour are the only true left wing party who will fight against austerity whether its against tory cuts or in the huge if the nationalists ever get their way and the financial meltdown that would undoubtedly occur.

    Jeremy Corbyn may have some faults in his make up however he is a man of undoubted left wing principles and would re install many of the good values we have lost after many years of right wing rule if we vote Labour back into Westminster. Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is also doing a fine job after being voted in as leader.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    The SNP are an amalgam of right, left and centre, all of whom have one common ambition. If that ambition is fulfilled, the likelihood is that the party will splinter, and politics in Scotland will realign.

    In that light, do you seriously think that the Scottish electorate will vote for a Government that is "more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves"?
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 28-05-2018 at 12:33 PM.

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    The expression 'Tartan Tories' doesn't even begin to describe a vast number of the snp membership. They're more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves in my opinion of course and would impose a post breakaway austerity never felt before. It would impact most on those on low incomes, sick and disabled and those on benefits as the government finances would be in meltdown and may or may not recover in due course over a period of many years thereafter. That may a price worth paying for those who are quite fanatical regarding independence.
    Where do you get this opinion from?? It seems quite bizarre to me, and none of the SNP members I know are anything like this.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    The SNP are an amalgam of right, left and centre, all of whom have one common ambition. If that ambition is fulfilled, the likelihood is that the party will splinter, and politics in Scotland will realign.

    In that light, do you seriously think that the Scottish electorate will vote for a Goverment that is "more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves"?
    Some plan that. Not exactly enticing is it. Meltdown wouldn't even begin to describe that situation. No thank you, not for me I want a Labour government that would fight against austerity and who looks after those at the bottom and on the fringes of society.

    Vote Jeremy Corbyn and Scottish Labour who will reintroduce the good decent left wing principles and who will fight against this type of utter madness from the nationalists.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!

  6. #95
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Some plan that. Not exactly enticing is it. Meltdown wouldn't even begin to describe that situation. No thank you, not for me I want a Labour government that would fight against austerity and who looks after those at the bottom and on the fringes of society.

    Vote Jeremy Corbyn and Scottish Labour who will reintroduce the good decent left wing principles and who will fight against this type of utter madness from the nationalists.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!

    The likelihood is that, the first or second election after independence, you'd get your left-wing Government.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Ö I want a Labour government that would fight against austerity and who looks after those at the bottom and on the fringes of society.
    How is Labour going to help those at the bottom and on the fringes of society by supporting Brexit? That is going to significantly impact just those groups. I find myself really confused by Labour's positioning over Brexit.

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    How is Labour going to help those at the bottom and on the fringes of society by supporting Brexit? That is going to significantly impact just those groups. I find myself really confused by Labour's positioning over Brexit.
    Thatís on purpose- itís called constructive ambiguity so that remainers think thereís a chance Labour will keep us in and leavers will think theyíll take us out of the EU. Labour have lost their way and simply donít know what they are doing on Brexit.

    Corbyn is pro-Brexit - quite simply. Thereís no such thing as a jobs first Brexit.
    Last edited by steakbake; 28-05-2018 at 02:06 PM.

  9. #98
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    The expression 'Tartan Tories' doesn't even begin to describe a vast number of the snp membership. They're more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves in my opinion of course and would impose a post breakaway austerity never felt before. It would impact most on those on low incomes, sick and disabled and those on benefits as the government finances would be in meltdown and may or may not recover in due course over a period of many years thereafter. That may a price worth paying for those who are quite fanatical regarding independence. Labour are the only true left wing party who will fight against austerity whether its against tory cuts or in the huge if the nationalists ever get their way and the financial meltdown that would undoubtedly occur.

    Jeremy Corbyn may have some faults in his make up however he is a man of undoubted left wing principles and would re install many of the good values we have lost after many years of right wing rule if we vote Labour back into Westminster. Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is also doing a fine job after being voted in as leader.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    But Labour didn't even vote against, never mind fight against, the Tory austerity cuts when they had the chance. Why was that?
    Space to let

  10. #99
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Some plan that. Not exactly enticing is it. Meltdown wouldn't even begin to describe that situation. No thank you, not for me I want a Labour government that would fight against austerity and who looks after those at the bottom and on the fringes of society.

    Vote Jeremy Corbyn and Scottish Labour who will reintroduce the good decent left wing principles and who will fight against this type of utter madness from the nationalists.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Ah, the Corbyn, and Richard effect, jumping into bed with the Tories in councils all over Scotland, how very left wing of them.

  11. #100
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    You're usually quite good at posting links.

    Fancy putting some of them up? I'm genuinely struggling to find them.

    I'm interested in how she presents why this no-doubt expensive commission, well-staffed by SNP and ex-SNP folk, says that an independent Scotland will have to cut public spending for years, will be tied to a foreign currency for years, and needs to offer tax cuts to immigrants - remember, while we're cutting public spending.

    All to satisfy some folk's indulgence about the colour of the flag on their passport, while in Scotland the really important things like health and education are failing massively and no one takes responsibility.

    It's no wonder there was no big launch and no wonder it's being punted to 'national assemblies'. These are SNP gigs, right? Democracy in action I guess.......
    Did the report mention austerity? I thought it said it would increase public spending too.

    Oh well, let's see what the better together mob come up with.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    The expression 'Tartan Tories' doesn't even begin to describe a vast number of the snp membership. They're more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves in my opinion of course and would impose a post breakaway austerity never felt before. It would impact most on those on low incomes, sick and disabled and those on benefits as the government finances would be in meltdown and may or may not recover in due course over a period of many years thereafter. That may a price worth paying for those who are quite fanatical regarding independence. Labour are the only true left wing party who will fight against austerity whether its against tory cuts or in the huge if the nationalists ever get their way and the financial meltdown that would undoubtedly occur.

    Jeremy Corbyn may have some faults in his make up however he is a man of undoubted left wing principles and would re install many of the good values we have lost after many years of right wing rule if we vote Labour back into Westminster. Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is also doing a fine job after being voted in as leader.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    I think you may be overstating your case a tad with regards the nats. Sure they have some right, natuonalist types, but a lot of the recent joiners are very left, and under sturgeon id say they have moved to the left.

    But serious question... if you are against austerity, what would your solution be to the debt and deficit problem?

    Given an indy scotland would begin with circa 10%of the uks debt, plus the enornous one off costs of starting on our own, plus a commitment to increase public spending plus an existing deficit of circa 9%, and a new currency to support, and huge capital flight an economic shock to get through, i think its a very pertinent question.

  13. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I think you may be overstating your case a tad with regards the nats. Sure they have some right, natuonalist types, but a lot of the recent joiners are very left, and under sturgeon id say they have moved to the left.

    But serious question... if you are against austerity, what would your solution be to the debt and deficit problem?

    Given an indy scotland would begin with circa 10%of the uks debt, plus the enornous one off costs of starting on our own, plus a commitment to increase public spending plus an existing deficit of circa 9%, and a new currency to support, and huge capital flight an economic shock to get through, i think its a very pertinent question.
    Vote Jeremy Corbyn in at Westminster and Scottish Labour into Holyrood as part of the UK of which is a diverse country made up of folk from many nations instead of the bitter scots nats breakaway proposals that would bankrupt Scotland into meltdown prior to having to beg the EU to allow us to join as a small and dominated region of the EU.

    That's the answer.

    The reality of the nats getting their wish hardly bears thinking about. You want chaos and poverty by all means continue on arguing for the scots nats but not for me.

    I'll be voting for the real socialists in the form of Labour at both Westminster and Holyrood who always seek to care for the working folk, low incomes, those on benefits, sick and disabled, the nhs etc etc etc.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!

  14. #103
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Vote Jeremy Corbyn in at Westminster and Scottish Labour into Holyrood as part of the UK of which is a diverse country made up of folk from many nations instead of the bitter scots nats breakaway proposals that would bankrupt Scotland into meltdown prior to having to beg the EU to allow us to join as a small and dominated region of the EU.

    That's the answer.

    The reality of the nats getting their wish hardly bears thinking about. You want chaos and poverty by all means continue on arguing for the scots nats but not for me.

    I'll be voting for the real socialists in the form of Labour at both Westminster and Holyrood who always seek to care for the working folk, low incomes, those on benefits, sick and disabled, the nhs etc etc etc.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    If they are "real socialists" at Westminster, why are they supporting Brexit? How does that fit in with the "no-borders" tenet of pure socialism?

  15. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Vote Jeremy Corbyn in at Westminster and Scottish Labour into Holyrood as part of the UK of which is a diverse country made up of folk from many nations instead of the bitter scots nats breakaway proposals that would bankrupt Scotland into meltdown prior to having to beg the EU to allow us to join as a small and dominated region of the EU.

    That's the answer.

    The reality of the nats getting their wish hardly bears thinking about. You want chaos and poverty by all means continue on arguing for the scots nats but not for me.

    I'll be voting for the real socialists in the form of Labour at both Westminster and Holyrood who always seek to care for the working folk, low incomes, those on benefits, sick and disabled, the nhs etc etc etc.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Even with a government as bad as May's, the Tories are holding a comfortable lead over Corbyn. I just can't see how he ever gets elected in England. A revival in Scotland hardly helps since any seat they win is so unlikely to be a Tory one.

    The choice now is between the guaranteed managed decline of North Britain relying on subsidy from a fading post-Brexit UK, or a desperate lunge for the Indy lifebelt and hope we don't drown trying to get clear of the wreckage. Happy days.

  16. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    The expression 'Tartan Tories' doesn't even begin to describe a vast number of the snp membership. They're more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves in my opinion of course and would impose a post breakaway austerity never felt before. It would impact most on those on low incomes, sick and disabled and those on benefits as the government finances would be in meltdown and may or may not recover in due course over a period of many years thereafter. That may a price worth paying for those who are quite fanatical regarding independence. Labour are the only true left wing party who will fight against austerity whether its against tory cuts or in the huge if the nationalists ever get their way and the financial meltdown that would undoubtedly occur.

    Jeremy Corbyn may have some faults in his make up however he is a man of undoubted left wing principles and would re install many of the good values we have lost after many years of right wing rule if we vote Labour back into Westminster. Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is also doing a fine job after being voted in as leader.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Hyperbole much?

  17. #106
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Vote Jeremy Corbyn in at Westminster and Scottish Labour into Holyrood as part of the UK of which is a diverse country made up of folk from many nations instead of the bitter scots nats breakaway proposals that would bankrupt Scotland into meltdown prior to having to beg the EU to allow us to join as a small and dominated region of the EU.

    That's the answer.

    The reality of the nats getting their wish hardly bears thinking about. You want chaos and poverty by all means continue on arguing for the scots nats but not for me.

    I'll be voting for the real socialists in the form of Labour at both Westminster and Holyrood who always seek to care for the working folk, low incomes, those on benefits, sick and disabled, the nhs etc etc etc.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Interesting choice of words as I've always found the attitude of Scottish Labour and it's voters to be the most bitter of all.
    We've little chance of getting a left sided government in the UK in the foreseeable future IMO,, as the Labour Party is as weak as it has ever been. If you want a guaranteed leftish government then get independence first. We can then drop the dreaded SNP like a hot tattie and vote in the government most of us want.

  18. #107
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Vote Jeremy Corbyn in at Westminster and Scottish Labour into Holyrood as part of the UK of which is a diverse country made up of folk from many nations instead of the bitter scots nats breakaway proposals that would bankrupt Scotland into meltdown prior to having to beg the EU to allow us to join as a small and dominated region of the EU.

    That's the answer.

    The reality of the nats getting their wish hardly bears thinking about. You want chaos and poverty by all means continue on arguing for the scots nats but not for me.

    I'll be voting for the real socialists in the form of Labour at both Westminster and Holyrood who always seek to care for the working folk, low incomes, those on benefits, sick and disabled, the nhs etc etc etc.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Those real socialists, who are in power in, Wales? Is that the ones you speak of, the ones who can't even mitigate the bedroom tax fully, whilst those nasty nats in, Scotland, do.

    Those socialists who've just given their railways away to the private sector, whilst arguing for a public bid in Scotland ( which will be delivered by those nasty nats)

    Anyway, let's get back on track...the growth Commission, good, bad, or indifferent?

  19. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Once it's debated at the assemblies maybe someone can explain how we have gone from £600 better off in 2014 to £4,100 better off in 2018 if we vote yes.

    I am guessing it's all down to economic growth. Might be hard when another country controls your interest rates though.
    I have already but will try again.

    The report does not say that anybody will be £4100 better off.*

    The report does say that Scotland's GDP per capita (economic output divided by population size) lags the median figure of a group of comparable small countries by £4100.

    Comprende?



    * Idiotic press headlines notwithstanding.

  20. #109
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I have already but will try again.

    The report does not say that anybody will be £4100 better off.*

    The report does say that Scotland's GDP per capita (economic output divided by population size) lags the median figure of a group of comparable small countries by £4100.

    Comprende?



    * Idiotic press headlines notwithstanding.
    Well I guess I fell into the press trap, but I won't be alone which suggests the SNP have failed to get across their message.

  21. #110
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Well I guess I fell into the press trap, but I won't be alone which suggests the SNP have failed to get across their message.
    Their message for me is that this is a discussion document, to form the basis of a renewed debate. Not something to be dismissed or championed in the space of a few days.

  22. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Vote Jeremy Corbyn in at Westminster and Scottish Labour into Holyrood as part of the UK of which is a diverse country made up of folk from many nations instead of the bitter scots nats breakaway proposals that would bankrupt Scotland into meltdown prior to having to beg the EU to allow us to join as a small and dominated region of the EU.

    That's the answer.

    The reality of the nats getting their wish hardly bears thinking about. You want chaos and poverty by all means continue on arguing for the scots nats but not for me.

    I'll be voting for the real socialists in the form of Labour at both Westminster and Holyrood who always seek to care for the working folk, low incomes, those on benefits, sick and disabled, the nhs etc etc etc.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Thats not really an answer, but thanks anyway.

  23. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    The expression 'Tartan Tories' doesn't even begin to describe a vast number of the snp membership. They're more right wing nasty nationalist and uber presbytarian than the puritans themselves in my opinion of course and would impose a post breakaway austerity never felt before. It would impact most on those on low incomes, sick and disabled and those on benefits as the government finances would be in meltdown and may or may not recover in due course over a period of many years thereafter. That may a price worth paying for those who are quite fanatical regarding independence. Labour are the only true left wing party who will fight against austerity whether its against tory cuts or in the huge if the nationalists ever get their way and the financial meltdown that would undoubtedly occur.

    Jeremy Corbyn may have some faults in his make up however he is a man of undoubted left wing principles and would re install many of the good values we have lost after many years of right wing rule if we vote Labour back into Westminster. Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is also doing a fine job after being voted in as leader.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Corbyn is a bitter, narrow-minded t**t with next to no awareness of or interest in Scotland. He's surrounded by vile (John McDonnell), incompetent (Dianne Abbott) and sycophantic cronies who will hopefully never get near No 10. The fact that Labour lags behind a calamity-ridden Conservative party in the polls sums up their inability to embrace anything other than a reactionary brand of socialism that will only ever appeal to a minority of the electorate. I'd vote for independence rather than be governed by this clown and that is something I thought I'd never say when given the choice of a UK Labour governnent or independence.

    I'm also unaware of any 'fine' things Richard Leonard has done thus far. In fact I still have to think for moment when recalling who the Scottish Labour leader actually is. As only the third largest party in terms of MSPs and MPs (who could possibly have forecast that just a few years back?!) they remain a near irrelevance.

  24. #113
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Their message for me is that this is a discussion document, to form the basis of a renewed debate. Not something to be dismissed or championed in the space of a few days.
    So when do we get the answers rather than the theoretical questions? Debating suggests there is a process in place, what I would expect is that there is debate and then a decision is made and implemented.

    So in the case of the currency are we expecting the debate to produce a plan at the end of the process?

  25. #114
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    So when do we get the answers rather than the theoretical questions? Debating suggests there is a process in place, what I would expect is that there is debate and then a decision is made and implemented.

    So in the case of the currency are we expecting the debate to produce a plan at the end of the process?
    I'd say it's up to interested parties from all sides to contribute. And, yes, at the end of that process, there will be a plan, on which the electorate can take a view.

    It's normally the case, in situations like this, that the floor is thrown open to contributions to be made in appropriate fora. I don't see that this process will be any different, and I expect it has already started.

    The SG's consultation process is very electorate-friendly; members of the public are encouraged to take part. Feel free to do so.
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 29-05-2018 at 11:11 AM.

  26. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    If they are "real socialists" at Westminster, why are they supporting Brexit? How does that fit in with the "no-borders" tenet of pure socialism?
    I agree with your question. I suspect the answer lies in the fact that for the Bennite rump on the left in Labour, there has always been a mistrust of the EEC and the EU.

    In part it is to do with a historical fear of loss of national sovereignty, risking a loss of power to renationalise industries and the like. This overlaps with a fear that the principles of free trade risk being exploitative of workers.

    In previous decades Labour supporters were probably more anti-Europe than Tories, in relative terms.

    Thatcherism coming into conflict with Delors and the social agenda changed all that and flipped party schisms on Europe.
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  27. #116
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    I want to take you on a journey to a small, self governing (most devolved powers in the world) nation with a population of 50,000, is about the size of the Shetland Ilsandsand which is not part of the EU, but is part of the Shengen area and has an unemployment rate of around 3.2%. GDP $3.09 billion (per capita $61,325). It has one downside in that i depends largely on a single industry.

    This nation has universal broadband speeds of 100mB/s (we can only wish!)

    Where is this successful little nation?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qinWJqgGMw
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  28. #117
    At the moment we are part of the UK a relatively small island that punches way above its weight so to speak with a very good standard of living, law and order, national security, employment, businesses big and small, secure currency, the NHS, decent benefit system for the unemployed, sick and disabled etc etc etc.

    We live in a UK and Commonwealth that's in the Premier League around the world and and it inhabitants are of a very diverse and of mostly welcoming nature. i love being able to travel the UK as a UK citizen and have been treated very well when travelling around its parts.

    If folk want to trade all this in and much more to live in a nationalistic very small country mostly solely for the tartan 'braveheart' culture then so be it but just think about what you'd be giving up.

    If Labour could be voted back in at both Westminster and Holyrood even better.

    You don't have to be a tartan 'braveheart' just because you're a Hi bee albeit you'd never think so as they tend to monopolise the debate on here.

    As for percentages and the other nonsense numbers that get banded around by some pied pipers as a post breakaway the count would be how many jobs would be lost and which companies were staying and which were leaving the nationalist state with either the nats in charge or a power vacuum that would be very changeable and trying to repair the meltdown that would inevitably occur and last for many years thereafter.

    We can have a socialist government in charge of the UK by ensuring Labour succeed wherever possible.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    At the moment we are part of the UK a relatively small island that punches way above its weight so to speak with a very good standard of living, law and order, national security, employment, businesses big and small, secure currency, the NHS, decent benefit system for the unemployed, sick and disabled etc etc etc.

    We live in a UK and Commonwealth that's in the Premier League around the world and and it inhabitants are of a very diverse and of mostly welcoming nature. i love being able to travel the UK as a UK citizen and have been treated very well when travelling around its parts.

    If folk want to trade all this in and much more to live in a nationalistic very small country mostly solely for the tartan 'braveheart' culture then so be it but just think about what you'd be giving up.

    If Labour could be voted back in at both Westminster and Holyrood even better.

    You don't have to be a tartan 'braveheart' just because you're a Hi bee albeit you'd never think so as they tend to monopolise the debate on here.

    As for percentages and the other nonsense numbers that get banded around by some pied pipers as a post breakaway the count would be how many jobs would be lost and which companies were staying and which were leaving the nationalist state with either the nats in charge or a power vacuum that would be very changeable and trying to repair the meltdown that would inevitably occur and last for many years thereafter.

    We can have a socialist government in charge of the UK by ensuring Labour succeed wherever possible.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Tartan "Braveheart"! Oh behave.

  30. #119
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    At the moment we are part of the UK a relatively small island that punches way above its weight so to speak with a very good standard of living, law and order, national security, employment, businesses big and small, secure currency, the NHS, decent benefit system for the unemployed, sick and disabled etc etc etc.

    We live in a UK and Commonwealth that's in the Premier League around the world and and it inhabitants are of a very diverse and of mostly welcoming nature. i love being able to travel the UK as a UK citizen and have been treated very well when travelling around its parts.
    Find it difficult to believe that you fail to mention the EU in your post -
    .... Die spinnen, die Briten ....

  31. #120
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    At the moment we are part of the UK a relatively small island that punches way above its weight so to speak with a very good standard of living, law and order, national security, employment, businesses big and small, secure currency, the NHS, decent benefit system for the unemployed, sick and disabled etc etc etc.

    We live in a UK and Commonwealth that's in the Premier League around the world and and it inhabitants are of a very diverse and of mostly welcoming nature. i love being able to travel the UK as a UK citizen and have been treated very well when travelling around its parts.

    If folk want to trade all this in and much more to live in a nationalistic very small country mostly solely for the tartan 'braveheart' culture then so be it but just think about what you'd be giving up.

    If Labour could be voted back in at both Westminster and Holyrood even better.

    You don't have to be a tartan 'braveheart' just because you're a Hi bee albeit you'd never think so as they tend to monopolise the debate on here.

    As for percentages and the other nonsense numbers that get banded around by some pied pipers as a post breakaway the count would be how many jobs would be lost and which companies were staying and which were leaving the nationalist state with either the nats in charge or a power vacuum that would be very changeable and trying to repair the meltdown that would inevitably occur and last for many years thereafter.

    We can have a socialist government in charge of the UK by ensuring Labour succeed wherever possible.

    Mon the Cabbage!!!
    Apart from all that, what did you think of the Growth Commission Report?

    (as an aside...the UK an island? Are you writing off Northern Ireland as a lost cause, the way some Tories are?)
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 31-05-2018 at 09:12 AM.

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