The best form of defense is attack

[sadtom]

Now that our club and manager appear to be under scrutiny due to the Hun Sc*m banner and Lenny's aeroplane celebration i think its time for us to up the anti.
It's a scandal that those who get to spew their hate filled sectarian bile yet again appear to be adopting the position of victim.
If our manager has the strictest of rules applied to him for a perfectly harmless celebration as a response to the poisonous abuse he received.
They are correct when they say no-one likes them...but seem wide of the mark when they claim to 'not care'.
If you behave like sc*m then the cant object to being called it. If our club/support are punished for this, then need to start demanding the authorities (football and legal) are as keen to apply the law/rules to The rangers.
For decades they have reacted to any criticism with threats and intimidation. Its time to take them on.
We can remain quiet, try to keep our heads down and hope it will either go away or we get an 'acceptable level' punishment. Or we can go the whole hog and make the biggest of deal out this.
We have led the way during the 'banter years' and have been a prominent thorn in their flesh. Lets not cower from this. Lets show them that once again they've picked on the wrong club.
Let's take this to the highest of levels and be relentless about it. We would have the backing of 99% of all the other fans/clubs. We should canvass the support of others and campaign that this is the end. We will no longer tolerate their prehistoric garbage.
All sanctions and punishments need to be enforced and we should take every opportunity to point out any breaches of the law/rules.
As 'small potatoes' as the the charges against us are. We could turn it into something totally different. The final straw.
We have a chance to lead the way. To do a favour for Scottish football, Scottish society and humanity.
Organise a coalition of objection, start a watchdog on their support, the songs, the websites, the supporters groups etc. Highlight the poison.
Campaign in the media, the phone ins, the comments sections, the various vox pops and blogs.
Challenge all those complicit cowards in the media who are so terrified of reprisals that they not only turn a deaf ear to their bigoted filth but that they talk of their 'fantastic support' and 'wonderful atmosphere'. Shame them into spelling out every single vile word they spew. Its no longer acceptable to keep brushing this under the carpet.
Enough is enough. Pester them at every turn. Make them defend the indefensible on a daily basis.
Its time to tell those cavemen...evolve or perish. Your attitudes are not welcome.

[Jones28]

Good idea, but the idea of orchestrating a campaign against bigotry and sectarianism isn't Hibernian FC's remit. If the club were using resources for that instead of putting it in to the team people would be livid.

[MrSmith]

I think making a complaint on the day to the police should cover it. There is plenty of video evidence on YouTube to corroborate the complaint. However, there appears to be no appetite from the SFA/SPFL or the Police or the Scottish Government or sadly our club, in order to curb the Rangers sectarian behaviour.

Its appalling and I agree, has to be challenged with full force of the law applied.

[One Day Soon]

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I think making a complaint on the day to the police should cover it. There is plenty of video evidence on YouTube to corroborate the complaint. However, there appears to be no appetite from the SFA/SPFL or the Police or the Scottish Government or sadly our club, in order to curb the Rangers sectarian behaviour.

Its appalling and I agree, has to be challenged with full force of the law applied.

This is correct in every regard. The people who lead simply don't care about it that much.

[sadtom]

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Good idea, but the idea of orchestrating a campaign against bigotry and sectarianism isn't Hibernian FC's remit. If the club were using resources for that instead of putting it in to the team people would be livid.

All we would require from the club is that they remain steadfast and echo the thoughts of the supporters. It shouldn't cost much if anything.
The campaigning could be done independently by the fans.
If small donations are require then just the odd bucket collection. The opposition can be done online.
Every supporters forum could have an ongoing thread. Share information. Coordinate responses. Organise the opposition. Hijack the phone ins/comments sections en mass. Be relentless in asking the awkward questions.
Banners at all the live matches (Nowt that breaks any laws) highlighting their poison. Force the cowards in the media to stop showering them with platitudes and instead call out their hypocrisy.
We have right on our side, lets not be afraid to use it. So long as we are smart and play it cute there would be zero comebacks.
Constant complaints to the authorities and demand the rules are enforced. Take it to the max, a 'ground up' resistance where no one club or individual is isolated and where we all stand together with one voice with the objective of ridding the game of their moronic, backwards attitudes.
Stevie G said he wants to make 'them happy'. The question should be not does he think he can do it (of course he will think he can) by why would you want to make these cretins happy...they deserve nothing but contempt.

[edinburghhibee]

This could all be sorted so easily if the SFA or the SPFL just started deducting point from clubs where it’s proven they are singing sectarian abuse. First 5 tines 1 point per match five onwards 2 points per match and so on. Eventually the clubs will self police as the points start to drop off and titles are lost


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[Geo_1875]

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I think making a complaint on the day to the police should cover it. There is plenty of video evidence on YouTube to corroborate the complaint. However, there appears to be no appetite from the SFA/SPFL or the Police or the Scottish Government or sadly our club, in order to curb the Rangers sectarian behaviour.

Its appalling and I agree, has to be challenged with full force of the law applied.

I know. Wouldn't it be great if the Scottish Government got involved and introduced legislation to fight unacceptable behaviour at football matches. That would be wonderful, but there might be some opposition to it from opponents of the SNP and it might be difficult to get Police Scotland to implement these new laws fairly and evenhandedly. And fans themselves might refuse to stop behaving unacceptably and get involved in world class whataboutery. Might not be such a good idea after all.

[sadtom]

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This could all be sorted so easily if the SFA or the SPFL just started deducting point from clubs where it’s proven they are singing sectarian abuse. First 5 tines 1 point per match five onwards 2 points per match and so on. Eventually the clubs will self police as the points start to drop off and titles are lost


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Correct. Force them to act.

[JeMeSouviens]

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This could all be sorted so easily if the SFA or the SPFL just started deducting point from clubs where it’s proven they are singing sectarian abuse. First 5 tines 1 point per match five onwards 2 points per match and so on. Eventually the clubs will self police as the points start to drop off and titles are lost


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Hibs are one of the clubs that oppose this kind of strict liability.

I think we should be at the forefront of supporting it. If we have issues of our own that need sorting then we need to sort them.

[Jack Hackett]

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Hibs are one of the clubs that oppose this kind of strict liability.

I think we should be at the forefront of supporting it. If we have issues of our own that need sorting then we need to sort them.

Therein lies the problem. It is abundantly clear that neither the SFA or the clubs themselves have the stomach or balls to address it. We need the fans to create the same aggression and resistance we showed when banishing them to the bottom league when the 'authorities' tried to parachute them back into the top league.

[WhileTheChief..]

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This could all be sorted so easily if the SFA or the SPFL just started deducting point from clubs where it’s proven they are singing sectarian abuse. First 5 tines 1 point per match five onwards 2 points per match and so on. Eventually the clubs will self police as the points start to drop off and titles are lost


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Yeah? And if we were deducted points for a banner along the lines of say “Hun ****” how would you feel about that?

Strict liability should never ever be implemented.

[Hibbyradge]

Can you imagine the power strict liability would give, for example, to those people who decry HSL as a "ponzi" scheme and think that, despite everything he's done for this club, STF should just walk away from what he's owed and donate his entire shareholding to the fans.

Or any other group in any club with an axe to grind.

On the face of it, it's a good, simple idea, but it's far too dangerous.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Can you imagine the power strict liability would give, for example, to those people who decry HSL as a "ponzi" scheme and think that, despite everything he's done for this club, STF should just walk away from what he's owed and donate his entire shareholding to the fans.

Or any other group in any club with an axe to grind.

On the face of it, it's a good, simple idea, but it's far too dangerous.

With all due respect, bollocks. Strict liability has been operated by UEFA for years. It even got the Old Huns to stop singing the Billy Boys.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This 'Hun ****' banner certainly seems to have kicked off a debate on the subject of sectarianism, perhaps it wasn't as bad an idea as some folk are making out if that's the case.

Its time to put it to bed now though because it gives the Huns an excuse to play the pretend victim and enables them to deflect from their own vile ramblings. What about a new banner for the next time they visit with 'DONT BRING YOUR BIGOTRY HERE' written on it .... no chance of that sentiment being turned on us and something everybody can agree on. I for one would be happy to contribute to that one

[Hibbyradge]

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With all due respect, bollocks.

Not much respect due, then.

It might work to a degree, but if things weren't going their way domestically, an organised group could easily hold a board to ransom.

Losing a few points when the season was already over wouldn't stop the more militant fans at Ibrox, for example.

[Vini1875]

I would be against strict liability as well. Bigotry in all its forms is very difficult to police and prove. For example the song the cry was no surrender. Many may think its part of the bigoted sectarian song sheet, but it could be argued that it simply reflects a culture and tradition, you can say the same about the fields of Athenry. It can also be said that songs like this don't belong at football matches, while others say it simply reflects a culture.

I think football fans need to think carefully about how we want to be policed. There is already a lot of restrictions on football fans. We need to think of something other than giving more power to authorities.

[hhibs]

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I know. Wouldn't it be great if the Scottish Government got involved and introduced legislation to fight unacceptable behaviour at football matches. That would be wonderful, but there might be some opposition to it from opponents of the SNP and it might be difficult to get Police Scotland to implement these new laws fairly and evenhandedly. And fans themselves might refuse to stop behaving unacceptably and get involved in world class whataboutery. Might not be such a good idea after all.

Indeed,unfortunately the irony of your statement will be lost on some.

[green day]

Have I messed something?

Apart from some radges on social media suggesting (in their usual hun like manner) that Hun is a sectarian word - when did Hibs come under scrutiny, and from whom?

[lord bunberry]

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Yeah? And if we were deducted points for a banner along the lines of say “Hun ****” how would you feel about that?

Strict liability should never ever be implemented.

I would feel that as long as the rules were fairly implemented it would be a deserved punishment.

[hibsbollah]

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Not much respect due, then.

It might work to a degree, but if things weren't going their way domestically, an organised group could easily hold a board to ransom.

Losing a few points when the season was already over wouldn't stop the more militant fans at Ibrox, for example.

Im not sure you're right. If a points deduction leaves them dropping a league place, finishing below hated rivals like us or les moutons and losing circa £300,000, it might cause most of them to think again.

[Keith_M]

Surely it wouldn't cost much for Hibs to issue a press release condemning the sectarianism of visiting fans?


If this were racism, islamophobia or anti-semitism, the media and, I suspect, our own club, would be all over it.

[Northernhibee]

The "Hun ****" banner is indefensible. Devoid of humour or wit like the natural order banner, not even short of material from that lot it's the sort of thing that gets us labelled as a mini Celtic as it's at their level. Those responsible can't complain if the club were to say don't come back

The airplane - meh. It made me smile, it was an outpouring of emotion but the rules are out clear on entering the pitch.

The club should put out a statement about their sectarianism but can't defend ourselves about the above really.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Not much respect due, then.

It might work to a degree, but if things weren't going their way domestically, an organised group could easily hold a board to ransom.

Losing a few points when the season was already over wouldn't stop the more militant fans at Ibrox, for example.

I don't think so. Would the Hibs support (or any other support come to that) in general tolerate such a group? I can't see it.

If Scottish football is serious about eradicating sectarianism then the solution is simple. But by the actions of the clubs, including our own, we already know it's not.

[marinello59]

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I know. Wouldn't it be great if the Scottish Government got involved and introduced legislation to fight unacceptable behaviour at football matches. That would be wonderful, but there might be some opposition to it from opponents of the SNP and it might be difficult to get Police Scotland to implement these new laws fairly and evenhandedly. And fans themselves might refuse to stop behaving unacceptably and get involved in world class whataboutery. Might not be such a good idea after all.

It’s nothing to do with opposition to the SNP and everything to do with opposing poor legislation.
It was in place for six years. Did it work?

[marinello59]

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With all due respect, bollocks. Strict liability has been operated by UEFA for years. It even got the Old Huns to stop singing the Billy Boys.

And who would decide just what constituted behaviour worthy of punishment under strict liability. Would you trust the SFA or SPFL to set the rules on that? I wouldn’t.

[Brightside]

No one in scottish football appears to care about sectarianism. Its all very odd but its never even mentioned now in sports reports and on tv. Despite it being as bad as ever.

[JeMeSouviens]

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And who would decide just what constituted behaviour worthy of punishment under strict liability. Would you trust the SFA or SPFL to set the rules on that? I wouldn’t.

I'm happy to do it if you're looking for volunteers.

[marinello59]

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I'm happy to do it if you're looking for volunteers.

[Jones28]

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All we would require from the club is that they remain steadfast and echo the thoughts of the supporters. It shouldn't cost much if anything.
The campaigning could be done independently by the fans.
If small donations are require then just the odd bucket collection. The opposition can be done online.
Every supporters forum could have an ongoing thread. Share information. Coordinate responses. Organise the opposition. Hijack the phone ins/comments sections en mass. Be relentless in asking the awkward questions.
Banners at all the live matches (Nowt that breaks any laws) highlighting their poison. Force the cowards in the media to stop showering them with platitudes and instead call out their hypocrisy.
We have right on our side, lets not be afraid to use it. So long as we are smart and play it cute there would be zero comebacks.
Constant complaints to the authorities and demand the rules are enforced. Take it to the max, a 'ground up' resistance where no one club or individual is isolated and where we all stand together with one voice with the objective of ridding the game of their moronic, backwards attitudes.
Stevie G said he wants to make 'them happy'. The question should be not does he think he can do it (of course he will think he can) by why would you want to make these cretins happy...they deserve nothing but contempt.

Again, the sentiment is great, but away from football my life and the lives of many others aren't affected by sectarianism in Scotland. It is at the football, against 2 particular teams, which is why the SFA should be doing something to combat it.

I just don't think there's the attitude receptive to change in this country. When the government try something (like the football naughty no-no's act) it was widely condemned. Strict liability is unwanted by many people, including Hibs, because the penalty of having your share of idiots in the support is too severe.

Are there enough people interested in demonstrations? I don't know. Tom Devine (Scots historian) has said recently - in the Scotlands Game series - that sectarianism is dying, and that this is its last breath. I don't really think that's the case, there have been waves of sectarianism and xenophobic abuse in recent times all over the UK and that's not the sing of something dying.

A resistance is a great thought, but until the blazers and beaks change their attitudes Scotland will remain the same. Emails won't change it.

I'd love it to though.

[Hibbyradge]

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Im not sure you're right. If a points deduction leaves them dropping a league place, finishing below hated rivals like us or les moutons and losing circa £300,000, it might cause most of them to think again.

Which is less palatable to a full on Ibrox bigot - finishing in a lower league position, or having a Catholic manager/players?

Some fans are willing to harm their own clubs in the short term for their long term aims.

Folk bringing flares into the ground don't seem to care that it might hurt the club financially.

Boycotts have been seen before and I know folk who won't go back until Petrie has gone.

Cast your mind back to the Larkhall pub story from when Mo Johnston signed for them.

Give those bams the power to influence their club's direction and they'll take it.