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  1. #61
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollution View Post
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    \\\\\\\\\\\i am with you on this. I used to buy the best own label cider at Lidls. 4 cans @5% for £1.99 now £4.40. No longer worth it.

    90% plus of drinkers are sensible so in order to deter the 5% or so reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator.

    A classic Communist diktat. The government wins also by taking in more duty and VAT on the higher price. Suck on that too!

    ps This isn't a rant
    ....not if consumption goes down, which is the intention.

    Bear in mind, too, that those taxes aren't devolved, so the SG neither wins or loses.


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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    ....not if consumption goes down, which is the intention.

    Bear in mind, too, that those taxes aren't devolved, so the SG neither wins or loses.
    ... and duty is charged by total volume of alcohol, not as a % of price.

  4. #63
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    It's virtually nothing to do with "nanny state".

    It's about trying to maintain the NHS.

    Why don't people call the NHS "nanny state"?
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £1,789.68!



  5. #64
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    What's next, mandatory salad bars in restaurants?

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Why don't all the politicians just form a coalition and call themselves the "Thou Shalt Not Party"?

  7. #66
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    I came home today and my neighbour was carrying cases of beer from his car into his house. I jokingly said to him are you stocking up, and he replied that he had been down in England so he bought a load of drink while he was there. I reckon it was just an excuse that he used to his wife in order to get a massive carry out, but Iím not sure.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  8. #67
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    What's next, mandatory salad bars in restaurants?
    A better analogy would be cheaper salads.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £1,789.68!



  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Why don't all the politicians just form a coalition and call themselves the "Thou Shalt Not Party"?
    Are people being told they can't do something? I must have missed that.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned £1,789.68!



  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    A better analogy would be cheaper salads.
    It's already mandatory to make tap water free in restaurants (I believe anyway).

    Similar logic.

  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    A better analogy would be cheaper salads.
    I believe the Scottish Government looked into making salads mandatory with meals but not sure how that worked out.

  12. #71
    As a man that likes a glass or ten of wine a night at 5 pound odds for a bottle of wine in the motherland thank France I'm living in the French countryside now.

  13. #72
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    It's already mandatory to make tap water free in restaurants (I believe anyway).

    Similar logic.
    Licensed premises must provide free tap water, but they can charge you for using their glass.
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  14. #73
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    In the sense that I can't be trusted with chocolate biscuits*, so I take a decision not to buy them. I am the person best placed to know this and take the appropriate action to avoid the consequential fat *******isation that goes with a biscuit policy vacuum.


    * or chips, come to that.
    Strange. I had referenced my own voracious appetite for chips in an earlier draft - that didn't make it - of my previous post.

  15. #74
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I was being a personification of Scotland there. Another failed rhetorical flourish, sigh. Someone should hide my keyboard for my own good.
    If you're going to do that you'll need to have your posts oscillate wildly between attacks on innumerate cybernats and Yoon nawbags.

  16. #75
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Maybe I should dig out that bottle of El Dorado I've been saving.
    Now THAT was a soap and a half.

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Are people being told they can't do something? I must have missed that.
    Can't call folk 'names'
    Can't buy cheap booze
    Can't drive at 30mph on a road that has been 30mph for years & years.
    Can't park free on Sundays
    Can't bring up your child without having a named person
    Can't drive a diesel car in town (coming soon)
    Can't help someone in distress without fear of being sued or charged with something untoward
    Can't smoke in public places (which is one I'm in favour of, BTW )
    Can't do this, can't do that, etc, etc.
    In fact, they're just a load of can'ts.

    The world's screwed.
    Last edited by snooky; 04-05-2018 at 12:20 AM.

  18. #77
    Testimonial Due Glory Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    First of all you need to be honest about the trends.

    The trend for alcohol use and abuse has been downwards for some time. The notion that this is an ever increasing problem is a false one.

    The you need to look at the age groups...alcohol abuse is much more common in older groups that younger ones. There appears to have been a real generational shift in that younger generations are clearly more informed than older ones re alcohol and are not wedded to it as older ones are.

    Then you need to look at where the problem lies. Itís very very clear in the map within the National Statistics link below that ĎScotlandsí problem is really a Glasgow problem. In fact in large swathes of the country the hospitalisation rate is less than half that of Glasgow.

    Finally you need to look at the source of the problem. Deprivation levels are directly linked to alcohol health issues. 8 times as more likely in the most deprived areas compared to the least.

    Once you have done that you should target resources and policies on those areas and people. A blanket minimum price may well do that but it hardly smacks of a focussed approach.

    Trends (old but relevant and I donít have time to find anything more recent tonight! ) http://www.wsta.co.uk/publications-useful-documents/88-trends-in-alcohol-scotland/file

    Latest hospital stats: http://www.isdscotland.org/Health-Topics/Drugs-and-Alcohol-Misuse/Publications/2017-11-21/2017-11-21-ARHS-Report.pdf
    Thanks, RS. I donít disagree that the underlying issue needs to be specifically addressed (although IMHO Holyrood doesnít have all the powers it needs to do as much as I would like), but I think minimum pricing is a step in the right direction. Can we call it a draw?

  19. #78
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    I believe the Scottish Government looked into making salads mandatory with meals but not sure how that worked out.
    The kids are still getting their meals, no thanks to the Tories.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  20. #79
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    I can go to my local petrol station 24hrs a day and buy beer for Ä1.15 and a bottle of vodka for Ä12.00. Still we don't have nearly the same problems related to alcohol abuse over here. The answer is in education and mindset. The whole culture around alcohol needs to be changed from the bottom up. Hiking the prices will have minimum effect on those that need help the most, those who have to drink will continue to do so, they'll just sacrifice elsewhere to cover the extra costs.

  21. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glory Lurker View Post
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    Thanks, RS. I donít disagree that the underlying issue needs to be specifically addressed (although IMHO Holyrood doesnít have all the powers it needs to do as much as I would like), but I think minimum pricing is a step in the right direction. Can we call it a draw?
    I think Holyrood has plenty of powers to act in this area and Iím far from convinced the 50p level will do much at all apart from act as a regressive pseudo tax Iím happy to call it a score draw at this point

  22. #81
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I can go to my local petrol station 24hrs a day and buy beer for Ä1.15 and a bottle of vodka for Ä12.00. Still we don't have nearly the same problems related to alcohol abuse over here. The answer is in education and mindset. The whole culture around alcohol needs to be changed from the bottom up. Hiking the prices will have minimum effect on those that need help the most, those who have to drink will continue to do so, they'll just sacrifice elsewhere to cover the extra costs.
    It's not just about "problem drinkers" though. It's about educating kids as well. Hiking prices to a level they can't afford should make them look for alternative ways to spend their limited funds. If that changes their attitude towards alcohol, and pushes them towards healthier habits, that's a success in my book.

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 05-05-2018 at 08:43 AM.

  23. #82
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I can go to my local petrol station 24hrs a day and buy beer for Ä1.15 and a bottle of vodka for Ä12.00. Still we don't have nearly the same problems related to alcohol abuse over here. The answer is in education and mindset. The whole culture around alcohol needs to be changed from the bottom up. Hiking the prices will have minimum effect on those that need help the most, those who have to drink will continue to do so, they'll just sacrifice elsewhere to cover the extra costs.

    The problem here may not be as acute as in Scotland, but it is one for concern - seems Germany is actually considering adopting the Scottish government's move - which has to be a first surely?
    .... Die spinnen, die Briten ....

  24. #83
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    It's not just about "problem drinkers" though. It's about educating kids as well. Hiking prices to a level they can't afford should make them look for alternative ways to spend their limited funds. If that changes their attitude towards alcohol, and pushes them towards healthier habits, that's a success in my book.

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    A large part of the initial attraction to alcohol is that it's exclusive for kids. They see it as a kind of symbol of "coming of age". Making it less readily available only increases the attraction. Most German kids are introduced to alcohol at an early age and it's not uncommon for them to have a beer or a small glass of wine with a meal at around age 14. At 16 they can also visit bars and night clubs providing they leave before midnight. This slow introduction to alcohol takes away the whole right of passage symbolism and promotes a sensible approach based on education about it within the family and society in general.

  25. #84
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
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    The problem here may not be as acute as in Scotland, but it is one for concern - seems Germany is actually considering adopting the Scottish government's move - which has to be a first surely?
    I think Germany could learn a lot from Scotland on alcohol, but in the same kind of way that Hibs could learn from Hearts how to run a football club.

  26. #85
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I think Germany could learn a lot from Scotland on alcohol, but in the same kind of way that Hibs could learn from Hearts how to run a football club.
    We've got an auto ban in Rose Street

  27. #86
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    We've got an auto ban in Rose Street
    I see what you did there

  28. #87
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    We've got an auto ban in Rose Street
    Comedy gold. Well...........bronze anyway.

  29. #88
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
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    The problem here may not be as acute as in Scotland, but it is one for concern - seems Germany is actually considering adopting the Scottish government's move - which has to be a first surely?
    Given that the SG went all the way, Courts-wise, with their proposals, it wouldn't surprise me if other countries do follow suit. Scotland has been a test case, one which has given the green light by the Courts.

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  30. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    A large part of the initial attraction to alcohol is that it's exclusive for kids. They see it as a kind of symbol of "coming of age". Making it less readily available only increases the attraction. Most German kids are introduced to alcohol at an early age and it's not uncommon for them to have a beer or a small glass of wine with a meal at around age 14. At 16 they can also visit bars and night clubs providing they leave before midnight. This slow introduction to alcohol takes away the whole right of passage symbolism and promotes a sensible approach based on education about it within the family and society in general.

    An article in last week's Times said that 15 to 25 year olds are drinking a lot less than they did 10 years ago. Apologies for not having that link.

    Education is the right way, not punishing the majority of responsible drinkers Commie style.

  31. #90
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Given that the SG went all the way, Courts-wise, with their proposals, it wouldn't surprise me if other countries do follow suit. Scotland has been a test case, one which has given the green light by the Courts.

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    Think maybe the best way forward is to let Scotland try it out first and we'll see what he results are - then take it from there
    .... Die spinnen, die Briten ....

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