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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    When the fun stops, bet more

    Revealed: how bookies use AI to keep gamblers hooked

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...y_to_clipboard


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    The way they are allowed to operate is disgusting. I get bombarded with emails offering casino bonuses from bookies who won't allow me to have a bet on a horse.

  4. #3
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Good piece onR4 the other week about how they give gamblers on a losing run free credit to keep them betting.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Are bookies legal on the high street anywhere other than Britain? Iíve never seen one anywhere other than over here where they inhabit about every 10th shop.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Are bookies legal on the high street anywhere other than Britain? Iíve never seen one anywhere other than over here where they inhabit about every 10th shop.
    Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.

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  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    I never bet.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.
    Iím surprised places like Benidorm, Magaluf and Tenerife arenít absolutely rammed with them to be honest.

  9. #8
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.
    There are a few Ladbrokes shops in Brussels.

  10. #9
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    I think they've got stricter laws on betting online in Spain.

    I've tried to get onto UK betting sites when on holiday and been prevented from doing so.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I think they've got stricter laws on betting online in Spain.

    I've tried to get onto UK betting sites when on holiday and been prevented from doing so.
    Itís weird in Spain. Some sites seem to work and others donít.

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  12. #11
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Ive been in bookies in Spain and Germany.
    Most bookies over here are constantly empty. They're very popular for money laundering purposes.

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Most bookies over here are constantly empty. They're very popular for money laundering purposes.
    I remember being in the bookies in Munich during Oktoberfest. It was still fairly quiet, but the German punters were right into the chariot racing. It was quite funny watching it, having never seen it before

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  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member wpj's Avatar
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    Nice bookies in Austria, can watch live football with a beer as well as lose all your money.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Are bookies legal on the high street anywhere other than Britain? Iíve never seen one anywhere other than over here where they inhabit about every 10th shop.
    Only one chain here in NZ, most money goes back into NZ Racing I think. Most branches are actually IN pubs. There are nowhere near the numbers seen in the UK.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    Only one chain here in NZ, most money goes back into NZ Racing I think. Most branches are actually IN pubs. There are nowhere near the numbers seen in the UK.
    Itís the betting machines that have driven the bookies expansion in the U.K.

    The machines are the main cash cow but they are limited to 4 per shop. So hey presto they just opened more shops.

    If and when the stake levels are cut on these machines and the profit levels cut accordingly you will see a significant retrench of the number of physical bookie shops in the UK

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Itís the betting machines that have driven the bookies expansion in the U.K.

    The machines are the main cash cow but they are limited to 4 per shop. So hey presto they just opened more shops.

    If and when the stake levels are cut on these machines and the profit levels cut accordingly you will see a significant retrench of the number of physical bookie shops in the UK
    The law should be changed to 4 within a certain radius.

  18. #17
    From what I remember from living in the Netherlands it's very strict over there compared to back in Scotland, government controls it and when I lived there the maximum bet was 10 euros.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGRIGI View Post
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    From what I remember from living in the Netherlands it's very strict over there compared to back in Scotland, government controls it and when I lived there the maximum bet was 10 euros.
    They still have betting shops....but nowhere near as many.
    You can however place a bet in the supermarket,corner shop and post office.
    I used to play toto alot.

  20. #19
    reigning hibs.net poker champion Wembley67's Avatar
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    Well that's going to hit bookies profits hard...

    Maximum stake for fixed-odds betting terminals cut to £2

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard
    "You opened the box....and your soul belongs to me...."

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wembley67 View Post
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    Well that's going to hit bookies profits hard...

    Maximum stake for fixed-odds betting terminals cut to £2

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard
    Good news, I really didn't think that they'd drop it to £2

  22. #21
    Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

    I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.
    PM Awards General Poster of The Year 2015, 2016, 2017. Probably robbed in other years

  23. #22
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Good news, I really didn't think that they'd drop it to £2
    I still don't think they will. Industry pressure will lead to a compromise.

  24. #23
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

    I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.

    There's certainly a whiff of the rugby/football boozing and behaviour hypocrisy about it.

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

    I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.
    You can also add in online casinos to that.

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  26. #25
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    We're right hedonists in this country. The drinks companies and bookmakers are making a fortune taking our hard-earned (or inherited) cash off us.

  27. #26
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Are they going to be reducing the maximum stake on scratchcards from £10 as well? Or is the lottery a socially acceptable form of gambling in the same way the middle class couple tanning a bottle of red every night is more acceptable than someone necking pints and jagerbombs on a Saturday?

    I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.

    That's a staggeringly ignorant post.

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    That's a staggeringly ignorant post.
    Or you've misunderstood it.

    It's poor policy that targets one very specific type of gambling because it's viewed as the way 'poor people' gamble. Someone with a gambling problem with £500 to burn will still find a way to do that even with a maximum stake on FOBTs. That's speaking from experience. I could walk into a bookies any evening of the week and spend £100 on a horse race, £100 on a dog race, £100 on a virtual race, £100 on 49s and £100 on a football acca in less than 10 minutes.

    It's populist, nanny state politics. If the government were serious about dealing with gambling they would tighten the casino regulations that have been consistently relaxed in the last 2 decades, set a maximum spend per session and ban gambling sponsorship and advertisment in the same way they have with tobacco.

    The bookies will paint this as a disaster but they'll just increase the virtual racing, essentially FOBTs in disguise, and push more people online and to their bingo sites which aren't covered by this legislation.

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member NORTHERNHIBBY's Avatar
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    I worked in the betting industry up until 1997 and I decided to leave after we had a briefing from the MD who said that the business had to use horse racing and greyhounds and football as the loss leader to get punters through the door. We were advised to talk up slot machines and betting on lottery numbers and given targets for them. In my time in the business I can remember having to actively ban punters who won too much and we had to log customers who bet large stakes but I was never once told to ban a punter who was losing a lot.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member stu in nottingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I don't like the FOBTs but if someone has a gambling problem they will spend money in other ways to get their hit. Virtual racing, greyhounds, horses, casinos will all gladly take their money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Someone with a gambling problem with £500 to burn will still find a way to do that even with a maximum stake on FOBTs. That's speaking from experience. I could walk into a bookies any evening of the week and spend £100 on a horse race, £100 on a dog race, £100 on a virtual race, £100 on 49s and £100 on a football acca in less than 10 minutes.
    That's not most generally true actually although it may be for you. I have counselled literally hundreds of gamblers over the past few years and it's far more prevalent that if a singular, most common habit is treated in an individual then it's rare for gamblers to diversify into other forms of gambling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    It's populist, nanny state politics. If the government were serious about dealing with gambling they would tighten the casino regulations that have been consistently relaxed in the last 2 decades, set a maximum spend per session and ban gambling sponsorship and advertisment in the same way they have with tobacco.

    The bookies will paint this as a disaster but they'll just increase the virtual racing, essentially FOBTs in disguise, and push more people online and to their bingo sites which aren't covered by this legislation.
    I agree that the Government are not serious about tackling gambling and the reasons you give are just some of the evidence for that. What would possibly change the face of betting if FOBTs were seriously tackled would be that there might be far less of a presence on the high street. Many, may betting shops were only opened to accommodate yet another four FOBTs and with stiff regulation of the machines and online betting remaining it would seem there would be less need for shops.

    The bookmakers would possibly like to push online gambling more but then I don't think they could push it any less. Incidentally, a new self-exclusion scheme has very recently been initiated. It's called 'Gamstop', for anyone interested. The majority of UK gambling companies are signed up to it and my understanding is that legislation will follow shortly to order every UK company to join. It's a fairly simple online process for individuals to sign up for a choice of self exclusion periods. As the remaining gambling companies sign in to the agreement participants in the scheme will be excluded from those companies too. Of course there are always ways around everything, including for instance using a non-UK company but part of any deterrent is in the 'thinking time' a deterrent offers to reconsider gambling activity when the impulse is present.

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