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  1. #31
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Reports about the RF's contributions to the economy or charities are largely made up pish. Yes, Americans come to Britain and want to see Buckingham Palace. They also go to Paris and visit Versailles etc. It's not like the queen pops out with tea and scones for them.

    Anyway, even if they really brought in £s, choosing our head of state on a hereditary basis in 2018 is just wrong.
    It's not just in the form of tourism (which is considerable in its own right at an estimated £500 million, whether or not these tourists actually get to see them or not) - it's the trade they generate from overseas visits, it's the popular culture impact they have on multimedia platforms (even things like The Crown, which can attribute some of its successes to the fact that people are interested in the Royal Family). The royal warrant holding companies are significant contributers to UK revenues, and like it or not, large Royal events bring masses of people to the UK in significant numbers (Royal Weddings, Trooping The Colour etc) and these tourists put money into our coffers.

    I 100% agree that having a hereditary head of state is an archaic principle, and that there are plenty of the extended Royal Family that are "kept" entirely, but even in a symbollic capacity, they're good for our economy. Republic estimate they cost the taxpayer around £345 million every year. Independent financial reports estimate they contribute £2 billion to the economy every year (easily quantifiable by the way, since you don't seem to believe any of the reports). That seems like decent value to me.


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member greenlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43870026 this happens while everybody is "celebrating" the birth of another freeloader.
    Todayís record had the baby picture headline and the food bank story beneath it. Heartbreaking.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member greenlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    It's not just in the form of tourism (which is considerable in its own right at an estimated £500 million, whether or not these tourists actually get to see them or not) - it's the trade they generate from overseas visits, it's the popular culture impact they have on multimedia platforms (even things like The Crown, which can attribute some of its successes to the fact that people are interested in the Royal Family). The royal warrant holding companies are significant contributers to UK revenues, and like it or not, large Royal events bring masses of people to the UK in significant numbers (Royal Weddings, Trooping The Colour etc) and these tourists put money into our coffers.

    I 100% agree that having a hereditary head of state is an archaic principle, and that there are plenty of the extended Royal Family that are "kept" entirely, but even in a symbollic capacity, they're good for our economy. Republic estimate they cost the taxpayer around £345 million every year. Independent financial reports estimate they contribute £2 billion to the economy every year (easily quantifiable by the way, since you don't seem to believe any of the reports). That seems like decent value to me.
    The question is do the tourists come because we have a royal family or would they come in any case. I donít know the tourism numbers but it would be interesting to see how they compare to say France. They have plenty similar tourist attractions without a royal family.

  5. #34
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenlex View Post
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    The question is do the tourists come because we have a royal family or would they come in any case. I donít know the tourism numbers but it would be interesting to see how they compare to say France. They have plenty similar tourist attractions without a royal family.
    JMS is quite right with his point that people still flock to Republican countries to view palaces, whether or not someone's living in them or not. I'm in absolutely no doubt that tourism would always be a strong pull to the UK irrespective of the presence of a Royal Family or not. But again, tourism is only part of the puzzle. I've no idea what the revenues from places like Windsor Castle, Kensingston Palace, Buckingham Palace etc are on an annual basis (the data will exist somewhere though), or how much additional merchandise is purchased by folks visiting these establishments, but the interest in an active Royal Family undoubtedly plays a role in sales/visits.

    I'm the furthest thing from a Royalist - I just think to dismiss them as a worthless, costly behemoth is an ill-informed opinion.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    It's not just in the form of tourism (which is considerable in its own right at an estimated £500 million, whether or not these tourists actually get to see them or not) - it's the trade they generate from overseas visits, it's the popular culture impact they have on multimedia platforms (even things like The Crown, which can attribute some of its successes to the fact that people are interested in the Royal Family). The royal warrant holding companies are significant contributers to UK revenues, and like it or not, large Royal events bring masses of people to the UK in significant numbers (Royal Weddings, Trooping The Colour etc) and these tourists put money into our coffers.

    I 100% agree that having a hereditary head of state is an archaic principle, and that there are plenty of the extended Royal Family that are "kept" entirely, but even in a symbollic capacity, they're good for our economy. Republic estimate they cost the taxpayer around £345 million every year. Independent financial reports estimate they contribute £2 billion to the economy every year (easily quantifiable by the way, since you don't seem to believe any of the reports). That seems like decent value to me.
    Sorry, not buying it.

    http://brandfinance.com/images/uploa...eport_2017.pdf

    - £550M estimate for "uplift in tourism" based on visits to Buck palace, Westminster abbey, etc. I've visited Westminster Abbey, I certainly wasn't there because the UK has a current royal family. Where's the analysis of uniquely royal inspired visits? It's just a guess.
    - £329M crown estate surplus, ie. money generated from lands that will be owned by the state as soon as we get rid of the RF.

    etc. etc.

    Comparable european countries' economies don't seem to suffer from no royals.

  7. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    JMS is quite right with his point that people still flock to Republican countries to view palaces, whether or not someone's living in them or not. I'm in absolutely no doubt that tourism would always be a strong pull to the UK irrespective of the presence of a Royal Family or not. But again, tourism is only part of the puzzle. I've no idea what the revenues from places like Windsor Castle, Kensingston Palace, Buckingham Palace etc are on an annual basis (the data will exist somewhere though), or how much additional merchandise is purchased by folks visiting these establishments, but the interest in an active Royal Family undoubtedly plays a role in sales/visits.

    I'm the furthest thing from a Royalist - I just think to dismiss them as a worthless, costly behemoth is an ill-informed opinion.
    Even if the £2Bn figure was reliable, it's a tiny drop in the bucket of the UK economy. Even if it was 10x as much, it wouldn't justify hanging onto something that's just wrong in principle.

  8. #37
    johnbc70
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Even if the £2Bn figure was reliable, it's a tiny drop in the bucket of the UK economy. Even if it was 10x as much, it wouldn't justify hanging onto something that's just wrong in principle.
    Its only wrong in your opinion of course, unfortunately for you lots of other people have a different opinion and they outnumber you at the moment.

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Its only wrong in your opinion of course, unfortunately for you lots of other people have a different opinion and they outnumber you at the moment.
    As soon as my (mainly) benign dictatorship takes over, this point will be moot.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Its only wrong in your opinion of course, unfortunately for you lots of other people have a different opinion and they outnumber you at the moment.
    How many large and reliable surveys have been done regarding the royal family? Has there ever been one done in Scotland? Iím always sceptical when I hear about how popular they are as the vast majority of the people I speak to couldnít care less about them. When I speak to someone who is pro the royal family it sticks in my mind as itís such a rare occurrence.
    The most common reaction is one of apathy towards them. Maybe itís just the circles I move in

    United we stand here....

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    How many large and reliable surveys have been done regarding the royal family? Has there ever been one done in Scotland? Iím always sceptical when I hear about how popular they are as the vast majority of the people I speak to couldnít care less about them. When I speak to someone who is pro the royal family it sticks in my mind as itís such a rare occurrence.
    The most common reaction is one of apathy towards them. Maybe itís just the circles I move in
    Me too. I get the impression (in Scotland anyway) that the only thing that keeps them in place is folk think the alternatives would be even worse.

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Me too. I get the impression (in Scotland anyway) that the only thing that keeps them in place is folk think the alternatives would be even worse.
    I agree and also think that no one wants to stick their head above the parapet and try and get rid of them due to the pro royal family media.

    United we stand here....

  13. #42
    johnbc70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    How many large and reliable surveys have been done regarding the royal family? Has there ever been one done in Scotland? Iím always sceptical when I hear about how popular they are as the vast majority of the people I speak to couldnít care less about them. When I speak to someone who is pro the royal family it sticks in my mind as itís such a rare occurrence.
    The most common reaction is one of apathy towards them. Maybe itís just the circles I move in
    Probably not many surveys in Scotland, but I read one from 2014 which was split 50/50 in terms of keep the Royals or not and 47% wanted the Queen as the head of state in an independent Scotland.

    Obviously it's much higher when polls across the UK are looked at.
    Last edited by johnbc70; 24-04-2018 at 07:56 PM.

  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    It's not just in the form of tourism (which is considerable in its own right at an estimated £500 million, whether or not these tourists actually get to see them or not) - it's the trade they generate from overseas visits, it's the popular culture impact they have on multimedia platforms (even things like The Crown, which can attribute some of its successes to the fact that people are interested in the Royal Family). The royal warrant holding companies are significant contributers to UK revenues, and like it or not, large Royal events bring masses of people to the UK in significant numbers (Royal Weddings, Trooping The Colour etc) and these tourists put money into our coffers.

    I 100% agree that having a hereditary head of state is an archaic principle, and that there are plenty of the extended Royal Family that are "kept" entirely, but even in a symbollic capacity, they're good for our economy. Republic estimate they cost the taxpayer around £345 million every year. Independent financial reports estimate they contribute £2 billion to the economy every year (easily quantifiable by the way, since you don't seem to believe any of the reports). That seems like decent value to me.
    That's a surprisingly great series, well worth watching even if you think you have no interest in the royal family. While fictionalised to a certain extent, it's largely fact-based and is brilliantly put together.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Me too. I get the impression (in Scotland anyway) that the only thing that keeps them in place is folk think the alternatives would be even worse.
    Or maybe a lot of people donít really give much of a toss.

    We seem to function reasonably well with our parliamentary system and a non political head of state with its dash of rather old fashioned pomp and pageantry.

    Would I cry if the monarchy was abolished? Naw.

    Do I imagine any replacement would be just as flawed with itís own complications and retractions? Aye.

    Changing the status quo to a republic or the like is simply not something Iím really interested in and Iíd hazard a guess that a lot of folk feel the same. Based simply on the fact that Iíve rarely heard anyone (outside of these four walls) who seem to be overly fussed about it all.

  16. #45
    Testimonial Due Glory Lurker's Avatar
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    What bothers me most as a republican is the way there is never even debate about whether the current system is the best way to operate. The establishment and the media have no interest in discussing it because, imho, they know that it would lead to change. Anything that might erode the culture of privilege in this country is stifled.

  17. #46
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Set o' self serving parasites kept in place by a bunch o' forelock tugging peasants ..... who gives a flying **** what they allegedly contribute to the economy, privilege and deference as a matter of birthright is an anathema to a modern society and an unelected head of state an utter nonsense in any democracy.

    As for the Queen being apolitical ... ask the displaced people of Diego Garcia if they agree. Ask yourself if her "I hope people will think carefully about the future" comment during the independence referendum wasn't the same as starting a sentence with I'm not racist 'but' ... or 'I'm not homophobic 'but' .... apolitical my arse.

    Geeza republic

  18. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    It's an American thing
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    It's an americanism, they've always done it afaik.
    ********.

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    I read a quote from frankie boyle, it was referring to rangers fans singing god save the queen. It was something like ďpeople with a life expectancy of 56 asking god to save the queenĒ Says a lot about the support the royal family receives up here.

    United we stand here....

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43870026 this happens while everybody is "celebrating" the birth of another freeloader.
    Yet free loaders all over the country churn out children without a thought of how they are going to support them, what's worse?
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

  21. #50
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Yet free loaders all over the country churn out children without a thought of how they are going to support them, what's worse?
    Baby is being named Louis - after Stevenson no doubt

  22. #51
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Yet free loaders all over the country churn out children without a thought of how they are going to support them, what's worse?
    Both equally as bad to my mind but they get different treatment in the media and middle-class perception.

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    Both equally as bad to my mind but they get different treatment in the media and middle-class perception.
    And a different amount of money.

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Don't think they've changed and it would be bad tactics to do so but leaving SNP policy to one side for a moment, I think the people will be happy with a republic shortly after we are a proper country.
    This Indy first. Plebiscite to become a Rebublic after that.

    Itís almost irrelevant what the SNP or anyone else for that matter want. It will be up to the people of Scotland to decide.

    Personally Monarchy is a totally outdated system that has no place in a Democracy. The Queen can literally get away with murder in this country. As the courts prosecute on her behalf. She canít prosecute herself. Nobody should be above the law.

    J

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