Pushing sectarianism under the carpet

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Please explain how it did that.

It targets football fans for special treatment with laws that only apply to us. What constitutes offensive behaviour? Whatever the police decide it is.
Do you think the legislation has been effective in combatting sectarian behaviour in the West of Scotland where the problem mainly resides. Sectarian behaviour is not footballs problem to solve, it’s Scottish society’s problem. The Goverment should be tackling the problem at source starting with the Orange Order.

[Hermit Crab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think if you want to insult Hibs fans, trying to tar us with the sectarian singing brush is the quickest way to do it.
The late Paul McBride QC came out with similar against Hibs and was roundly condemned by our support. He was made to look a fool.

I have not heard a single sectarian/IRA song since I started following HIbs regularly in the early/mid 1980s.
I was told that Tom Hart basically killed it off in the 1970s as he said it embarrassed the club.

These days there can be the odd rare shout of "orange ..." against a certain Glasgow club but even that is dying out thankfully.
It leaves younger fans somewhat bemused TBH

Really?? Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm 15 minutes into this podcast, and while i think Chick Young is a complete bellend, he has said something i completely agree with him on.

He quoted Lex Golds sanction list, and wants the authorities to film the fans and present the evidence then apply those sanctions.

Its the only way to rid football of it, we've tried EVERYTHING else and its not worked.

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It targets football fans for special treatment with laws that only apply to us. What constitutes offensive behaviour? Whatever the police decide it is.
Do you think the legislation has been effective in combatting sectarian behaviour in the West of Scotland where the problem mainly resides. Sectarian behaviour is not footballs problem to solve, it’s Scottish society’s problem. The Goverment should be tackling the problem at source starting with the Orange Order.

What are those who wish to repeal the law, proposing to put in its place?

How is offensive communications now covered?

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/archive/law-order/sectarianism-action-1/football-violence/bill

[Brizo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Really?? Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

We are not perfect but have made huge inroads since early 80s when I stood in old East enclosure under the stand and we sang plenty of "rebel" songs like our predecessors before us in the Cave. Yes there are the odd shouts and a minority of mainly young fans will latch onto inappropriate songs because unfortunately that's what young lads do and have been doing since the 1960s. Unlike other clubs whose apologists talk about a "minority" in our case it is a tiny minority.

The Rangers have made no inroads and are unapologetically going backwards while the Celtc away support , particularly Green Brigade,seem to revel in doing stuff the bulk of their home support have given up. A substantial element of the Hertz support seem to have taken a time machine back to the 70s and reopened their sectarian songbook from those days.Apparently a lot of the types doing it were also doing it first time round.

While its right to highlight and call out where our fans do wrong, it shouldn't be overstated , not that I'm saying you are doing that.

Bottom line is that there is no appetite from Scottish politicians, the Scottish media and owners of the aforementioned three clubs to address sectarianism and it will continue to be denial or deflection or at best lip service.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think if you want to insult Hibs fans, trying to tar us with the sectarian singing brush is the quickest way to do it.
The late Paul McBride QC came out with similar against Hibs and was roundly condemned by our support. He was made to look a fool.

I have not heard a single sectarian/IRA song since I started following HIbs regularly in the early/mid 1980s.
I was told that Tom Hart basically killed it off in the 1970s as he said it embarrassed the club.

These days there can be the odd rare shout of "orange ..." against a certain Glasgow club but even that is dying out thankfully.
It leaves younger fans somewhat bemused TBH

I think that is incorrect. There were plenty rebel songs and anti orange songs being sung at ER at that time. They started dying out in the 90's, long after Tom Hart had gone.

It's not so much the offence at hearing up to your knees in fenian blood or orange bassa, for me it's the underlying factors, the fact that sectarianism is still flourishing in some parts of our society. The Hun hordes are the thin end of a large wedge and we could probably point the finger at many parts of the establishment; Police, Judiciary, local government in places like West Lothian and Lanarkshire.

As a wee aside. The problem with anti catholicism, because that is what it is, isn't confined to the Weedge and surrounding areas. Those archaic attitudes are still found in lodges and the wider community in many parts of Scotland, including Ayrshire, Fife, Lanarkshire and into the Western Isles.

[Peevemor]

I started going to matches regularly in 1980 and heard plenty 'rebel' songs (more so at away games). They eventually died out because not many people joined in anyway and eventually they were booed/shouted down by more folk than were singing them.

It was very much a case of self-policing.

[hibsbollah]

Sometimes you have to take back and take a fresh look, maybe from a foreigners perspective, at what kind of country we live in where the kind of sectarianism we have is tolerated, and has been for generations. It honestly makes me ashamed.

[AndyM_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Really?? Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

Well I hope you picked him up on that because that sort of crap is unacceptable.

And no I haven't heard the Edinburgh song, not since the 80s (even then it was invariably from Jambos), if it's making a comeback then it needs squashed. This is the 21st Century FFS.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Started watching Hibs in the early 90's and can count on one hand the number of times i've heard sectarian chants from our support. In fact i could probably count it on a couple of fingers. Think i'd just missed the worst of it when i started attending games as my old man said it used to be quite regular.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Really?? Since the mid 80's you've never heard the forever and ever, we'll follow the boys song? Or the "Edinburgh" song which is both racist and anti semitic. Earlier this season the Stokes da is in the RA song got airings at several away matches.

At Aberdeen away this season, someone behind me shouted clear as day ****** off Whittaker you orange b*****d.

The 'forever and ever' song began to die out in the 80s and I certainly haven't heard it sung since then .. considering that's going on for 30 years now its pretty safe to say its long gone.

The 'Edinburgh' song has been sung twice in my presence .... once on a bus on the way to the Barcelona friendly at which point I stood up and told the silly wee buggers in no uncertain terms that we were on the way to a Hibs game not a KKK rally and to F'ing well cut it out ... to be fair they stopped immediately. The other time was outside Hampden before the semi against Hearts ... there was about 15 of them who didn't look like they would be so reasonable and I wasn't brave enough to challenge them. But since then I haven't heard that sung either in a pub or at an actual game.

You are bang on about the 'Stokes da in the RA' song ...... At this point of the 4 clubs regularly quoted in this issue we are the only one able to justifiably claim a fair amount of moral high ground, we have worked hard ( both club and fans ) to eradicate this embarrassing nonsense from our club, but we put that in danger with songs like that and the Skacel song.

Even if it is a tiny minority the bigot brothers and their media arse lickers will point out that speck in our eye in order to deflect from the log in their own, so if we are to continue to put ourselves forward as an example of what can be achieved we need to stamp out even that tiny minority. Somebody on here said the club should call out Chick Young over what he said ..... Imagine if Leeann Dempster did that and then somebody came up with a film of our daft minority singing the Stokes song from the Partick match .... she and the club would be left with egg on their face.

I don't pretend to know what the solution is to all this. The uglies will continue to bang on about 'cultural songs' and freedom of speech and in the case of Sevco when our authorities still allow orange marches in Scotland's towns and cities every summer they have the ammunition to back it up .. if its legal on the streets, how is it illegal in a stadium? will be their argument.

[HibeeHibernian4]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Good question. I've found the people most angry and opposed to the OBFA are exactly the people ir was aimed at in the first place, or their apologists. It doesn't demonise football fans it demonises bigots who hide behind football.

It absolutely demonises anybody who you'd consider an "active" fan (ie. singing sections or people who like to stand and sing during a match). Motherwell fans were kettled by police and stewards a few season back, for absolutely no discernible reason.

If you have a spare half an hour, I'd advise you to listen to this podcast: http://www.mfc1886.com/mfc-podcast-2017-18-episode-28/

It's from about 22 minutes in, going through just how ineffective and illiberal the OBFA actually is.

[hibbyfraelibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It absolutely demonises anybody who you'd consider an "active" fan (ie. singing sections or people who like to stand and sing during a match). Motherwell fans were kettled by police and stewards a few season back, for absolutely no discernible reason.

If you have a spare half an hour, I'd advise you to listen to this podcast: http://www.mfc1886.com/mfc-podcast-2017-18-episode-28/

It's from about 22 minutes in, going through just how ineffective and illiberal the OBFA actually is.

Absolute twaddle. Singing sections as such are not demonised but those that encourage or abett the secterian moron wonder why they find themselves in the firing line?

When was the last time you personally confronted a bigot to shut him/her up? I hazard a guess at never...and that is why self policing doesnt work and never will.

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Absolute twaddle. Singing sections as such are not demonised but those that encourage or abett the secterian moron wonder why they find themselves in the firing line?

When was the last time you personally confronted a bigot to shut him/her up? I hazard a guess at never...and that is why self policing doesnt work and never will.

It worked amongst Hibs fans certainly with regards to sectarianism.

Ask the lads in our singing section what they think about the shambolic legislation that is the offensive behavior act. Alternatively look back at the banner they unveiled v St Johnstone at Tynecastle.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Absolute twaddle. Singing sections as such are not demonised but those that encourage or abett the secterian moron wonder why they find themselves in the firing line?

When was the last time you personally confronted a bigot to shut him/her up? I hazard a guess at never...and that is why self policing doesnt work and never will.

Self policing worked at our club.