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  1. #91
    if I was running a book Russia would be heavy odds on.


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  3. #92
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killiehibbie View Post
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    if I was running a book Russia would be heavy odds on.
    I wouldn't be taking bets on Russia.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I wouldn't be taking bets on Russia.
    It would cost you many weeks wages to win the price of a double vodka.

  5. #94
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Talking about seizing Russian assets.

    That could free up some housing in London.

    They should nationalise Chelsea F.C. as well.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Baader View Post
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    The problem with conspiracy theories is they are designed to get people further away from the truth. Was it them that took Litvinenko out I wonder?! Where does Mossad come into this exactly????

    Russia gain a lot from taking out a spy who turned I don't think you can refute that!
    Good question regarding Mossad. Israel is trying and failing to get the Russians to reign in the Iranians in Syria. They are not happy with Russia and would love to see western European nations turn on Russia further. I don't trust Israel one little bit.

    So Russia releases a spy, pardons him then tries to wipe him out in a foreign country a few years later? Pure nonsense.

    Some country out there is wanting this blamed on Russia.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkintHibby View Post
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    Good question regarding Mossad. Israel is trying and failing to get the Russians to reign in the Iranians in Syria. They are not happy with Russia and would love to see western European nations turn on Russia further. I don't trust Israel one little bit.

    So Russia releases a spy, pardons him then tries to wipe him out in a foreign country a few years later? Pure nonsense.

    Some country out there is wanting this blamed on Russia.
    Forgive my ignorance... but if 'the west' or Israel wanted to blame the russians for something, why wouldnt they just use one of the many other bad things they have done?

    Maybe like shooting a passenger plane oit of the sky, facilitating war crimes in Syria, annexing Crimea, flattening Chechnya, waging aggressive war in Ukraine, invading Georgia, state sponsored kleptocracy or state sponsored assassinations of opposition leaders and critical journalists?

    Or even state run doping programmes so bad they got thrown out thd olympics?

    Would seem easier to me, than us poisoning our own national spy asset, and numerous other people inc a policeman in a very public way, at the same time as embarrassing our own secret security service and lessening the chance that agents will flip in the future?

    Just a thought likes...

  8. #97
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkintHibby View Post
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    Good question regarding Mossad. Israel is trying and failing to get the Russians to reign in the Iranians in Syria. They are not happy with Russia and would love to see western European nations turn on Russia further. I don't trust Israel one little bit.

    So Russia releases a spy, pardons him then tries to wipe him out in a foreign country a few years later? Pure nonsense.

    Some country out there is wanting this blamed on Russia.
    Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth...

  9. #98
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Forgive my ignorance... but if 'the west' or Israel wanted to blame the russians for something, why wouldnt they just use one of the many other bad things they have done?

    Maybe like shooting a passenger plane oit of the sky, facilitating war crimes in Syria, annexing Crimea, flattening Chechnya, waging aggressive war in Ukraine, invading Georgia, state sponsored kleptocracy or state sponsored assassinations of opposition leaders and critical journalists?

    Or even state run doping programmes so bad they got thrown out thd olympics?

    Would seem easier to me, than us poisoning our own national spy asset, and numerous other people inc a policeman in a very public way, at the same time as embarrassing our own secret security service and lessening the chance that agents will flip in the future?

    Just a thought likes...
    Excellent points.

  10. #99

  11. #100
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinribs View Post
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    My personal favourite was the Russian banker who upset Putin. Somehow tied himself to a chair, stapled a suicide note to his forehead then managed to throw himself in a pool lol.
    Verdict? Suicide 😁
    Suicide in this case.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-42944124

    Miscarriage of Justice
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  12. #101
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baader View Post
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    The problem with conspiracy theories is they are designed to get people further away from the truth. Was it them that took Litvinenko out I wonder?! Where does Mossad come into this exactly????

    Russia gain a lot from taking out a spy who turned I don't think you can refute that!
    Mossad probably comes into because most people's impressions of how the Security Services operate are borne from TV and film fiction.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

  13. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Mossad probably comes into because most people's impressions of how the Security Services operate are borne from TV and film fiction.
    Indeed.

    I remember reading an interview with an ex MI6 agent who said his job mainly involves hanging about dive bars eavesdropping, sitting behind a computer screen and stressing about lying to all his family and friends about what he did for a living.

    He said the idea of folk running about the streets with guns and gadgets and ****ging anything that moved was the result a very vivid imagination. He also said a huge number of western agents look like computer geeks and a high percentage, for obvious reasons, are Asians fluent in Arabic.

  14. #103
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Remember that dodgy Scottish property developer that owed the Russians and ended up empaled on railings in Marylebone!?

    There’s an understanding in property that one should avoid working with Russians if you possibly can!

  15. #104
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    TBH, when you look at the stakes world powers (legit and non-legit) play for, the odd murder is but a fly swat. While the Ruskies are probably the bookies' favourite, there's a few good outsiders in the field.

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendo View Post
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    I didn’t realise that we had so many experts on espionage and statecraft on this forum
    Moles, Mr Smiley. Similar to trolls.

  17. #106
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    This guy was captured, tried,imprisoned and traded off in a spy swap. The Russians had ample opportunity to get rid of him years ago. Who knows what he was up to currently ?

  18. #107
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    This guy was captured, tried,imprisoned and traded off in a spy swap. The Russians had ample opportunity to get rid of him years ago. Who knows what he was up to currently ?
    The Russians have been goading us in a number of different ways recently.

    They have been checking out the positions of all of the gas pipelines supplying the UK, they have been running regular incursions into British seas/ airspace to test our military responses.

    There's quite a lot of cat and mouse, "we're watching you, watching us" going on at the moment.

    Maybe the time is just right for them to make some sort of a point right now?

    "We're so strong we can march onto your territory, kill a former spy and there is nothing you can do about it" show of strength/ bravado?

  19. #108
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    The Russians have been goading us in a number of different ways recently.

    They have been checking out the positions of all of the gas pipelines supplying the UK, they have been running regular incursions into British seas/ airspace to test our military responses.

    There's quite a lot of cat and mouse, "we're watching you, watching us" going on at the moment.

    Maybe the time is just right for them to make some sort of a point right now?

    "We're so strong we can march onto your territory, kill a former spy and there is nothing you can do about it" show of strength/ bravado?

    Precisely. And done in the middle of their election to demonstrate to the electorate how strong the current leader is too.

    If they'd wanted him dead without any comeback they wouldn't have used an incredibly traceable nerve agent. A bit like killing someone with traceable radioactive Polonium isotope. They were messages as much as they were murders or attempted murders.

  20. #109
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    This guy was captured, tried,imprisoned and traded off in a spy swap. The Russians had ample opportunity to get rid of him years ago. Who knows what he was up to currently ?
    Although the finger points to Russia, I can't see what they would get out of doing this.
    a) Petty revenge?
    b) He's still actively operating?
    c) Sending out a message to other rogue agents?
    d) Showing the world they can do what they want - anywhere?
    Maybe all four.
    The fallout in terms of detente, etc. is massive and could affect east/west relations for years.
    Seems a big price to pay for hitting one dormant ex-spy.
    As a poster said earlier, they had other & better opportunities to get rid of him. Why would they use a toxin that points directly to them. Seems a bit silly unless that was their intention of course - see (c).
    Last edited by snooky; 13-03-2018 at 12:17 PM.

  21. #110
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Although the finger points to Russia, I can't see what they would get out of doing this.
    a) Petty revenge?
    b) His still actively operating?
    c) Sending out a message to other rogue agents?
    d) Showing the world they can do what they want - anywhere?
    Maybe all four.
    The fallout in terms of detente, etc. is massive and could affect east/west relations for years.
    Seems a big price to pay for hitting one dormant ex-spy.
    As a poster said earlier, they had other & better opportunities to get rid of him. Why would they use a toxin that points directly to them. Seems a bit silly unless that was their intention of course - see (c).

    We are already at Cold War with Russia again.

    Your answer is c. and d. except its also a message to their own population, the West and of course to those countries that the West and others constantly seek to influence/control/direct.

  22. #111
    First Team Breakthrough
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    What a ridiculous headline to this thread.

  23. #112
    I heard a Russia-watcher on the radio the other day saying Litvinenko was hit primarily because he was aiding Western understanding of how the money flows worked between various bits of organised crime and state agencies. No idea if that applies in this case but follow the money might (as ever) be useful advice.

  24. #113
    I'm not so sure Britain has too much moral high ground to get on here when we're taking out British Jihadis in the Middle East with extra-judicial drone strikes.

  25. #114
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Fairly interesting twist on this now that it has been reported that Rex Tillerson has been sacked.

    I suspect that this might soon get a bit messy.

  26. #115
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    Fairly interesting twist on this now that it has been reported that Rex Tillerson has been sacked.

    I suspect that this might soon get a bit messy.
    The West is rather unstable at the moment with a divided America (Trump pros & cons) and a doubly divided UK (Brexit and Indy2 pros and cons). All divisions appear to be approx 50/50 which makes the usual acceptable democratic solution a nightmare i.e. either way, half the population is left (no pun there) pi$$ed off.

  27. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Although the finger points to Russia, I can't see what they would get out of doing this.
    a) Petty revenge?
    b) He's still actively operating?
    c) Sending out a message to other rogue agents?
    d) Showing the world they can do what they want - anywhere?
    Maybe all four.
    The fallout in terms of detente, etc. is massive and could affect east/west relations for years.
    Seems a big price to pay for hitting one dormant ex-spy.
    As a poster said earlier, they had other & better opportunities to get rid of him. Why would they use a toxin that points directly to them. Seems a bit silly unless that was their intention of course - see (c).
    I suppose the problem with any espionage story is we only know a small part of it.

    Who knows what is going on behind the scenes that make this good timing for the russians? Bit they obviously wanted it to be known that it was them.

  28. #117
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    There isn't any actual evidence that the Russian government has its fingerprints over this. It is just as likely to be an organised crime related killing (although cynics would say when it comes to Russia the lines are somewhat blurred).

    I hear mention of the cold war. In the old days when things like this happened (poisoned tipped umbrellas in Hungary, exploding scuba suits, all that fun James Bond carry on), the other side would just hit back by killing a spy from the opposing side. It was the gentlemanly thing to do and kept the cold war from becoming hot. Expelling diplomats is a possibility if Theresa May and the intelligence community is too Levein to order a 'reprisal' hit on a western turncoat, of which there are quite a few.

    Assuming of course that all this information we're getting (nerve agent, men in suits, Russian sailors, Mikey Forrester) is the whole story.

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    There isn't any actual evidence that the Russian government has its fingerprints over this. It is just as likely to be an organised crime related killing (although cynics would say when it comes to Russia the lines are somewhat blurred).

    I hear mention of the cold war. In the old days when things like this happened (poisoned tipped umbrellas in Hungary, exploding scuba suits, all that fun James Bond carry on), the other side would just hit back by killing a spy from the opposing side. It was the gentlemanly thing to do and kept the cold war from becoming hot. Expelling diplomats is a possibility if Theresa May and the intelligence community is too Levein to order a 'reprisal' hit on a western turncoat, of which there are quite a few.

    Assuming of course that all this information we're getting (nerve agent, men in suits, Russian sailors, Mikey Forrester) is the whole story.
    I think the poison tipped umbrella was in london too?

    I dount our govt would be naming thd russians unless they were sure - ultimately, it benefits the Russians and makes us look bad.

  30. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I'm not so sure Britain has too much moral high ground to get on here when we're taking out British Jihadis in the Middle East with extra-judicial drone strikes.
    It's not like the British Government have any form in this, is it.

    Another piece from a different perspective. https://t.co/uPAfRMBq5w


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  31. #120
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I think the poison tipped umbrella was in london too?

    I dount our govt would be naming the Russians unless they were sure - ultimately, it benefits the Russians and makes us look bad.
    ****ing poison tipped umbrellas, they get everywhere
    I think the official UK line is that theyre NOT sure but the evidence points to 'Russia'. The Russian government has asked to see evidence of the nerve agent named. We'll see what happens next. Id imagine it will be next to impossible to get any evidence that points directly to the Kremlin.

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