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  1. #1

    Cycling - another alleged scandal - unethical use of medication

    How many times?
    Is it that the Cycling bodies just canít sort the rules out to prevent this or is there something else going on.

    As a punter looking on I just canít imagine that these multiple time winners are freaks of nature and that some assistance is administered along the way. Too many scandals and given whatís already passed can folks be anything but skeptically vigilant.

    Is it done for as a competitively clean sport?


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  3. #2
    It's really not right but I got a little sense of satisfaction seeing Wiggins outed. He always comes across as a bit of a smug twat and the reaction of him and his wife to him being replaced as lead rider by Sky was pretty poor.

    Is it just road cycling that seems inherently dirty? I can't recall many, if any, questions about the likes of Hoy and Kenny on the track yet almost every leading road cyclist for years now seems to have been involved in some kind of scandal.

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member Benny Brazil's Avatar
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    Can we not just use the word cheating instead of unethical - that's what it seems to me anyway.

  5. #4
    Road racing is sponsored by some really wealthy organisations like Sky, the track stuff isn't, that's why virtually nobody outside of the cycling fraternity knows who won the various medals at track World championships. A lot of the British team that wins all those gold track medals at the Olympics don't really seem to bother about the World Championships, the world champions all seem to come from other countries, so they're really just aiming to peak once every 4 years, whereas road racers have got the Tour De France and all the other tours as well as the Olympics, so have to consistently keep a really high level of fitness. It also proves, as if we didn't know already, that it's not just other countries that cheat. Just my opinion though.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member GreenLake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Brazil View Post
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    Can we not just use the word cheating instead of unethical - that's what it seems to me anyway.
    I think that is reserved for Russians.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Brazil View Post
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    Can we not just use the word cheating instead of unethical - that's what it seems to me anyway.
    Nah, unethical would be suitable if he was needing to take that strength of drug for a genuine condition. He wasn't so it's cheating.
    We're not talking about a standard salbutamol inhaler here, we're talking about such a strong steroid that his asthma would have had to have been chronic which it wasn't.
    Last edited by Scouse Hibby; 06-03-2018 at 06:42 AM.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member Benny Brazil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Nah, unethical would be suitable if he was needing to take that strength of drug for a genuine condition. He wasn't so it's cheating.
    We're not talking about a standard salbutamol inhaler here, we're talking about such a strong steroid that his asthma would have had to have been chronic which it wasn't.
    Is this the same steriod that should only be taken max once a year - yet it is reported he has taken it 9 times in just 4 years?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Brazil View Post
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    Can we not just use the word cheating instead of unethical - that's what it seems to me anyway.
    For me, its unethical but not cheating.

    SKY worked within the rules but pushed them to the absolute maximum. SKY work on the marginal gains principal.

    The problem is that the rules need to be tightened.

    However, don't think SKY were the only team pushing the rules, every team was / is doing it. The problem is that SKY portrayed themselves as whiter than white, when in fact they were just a shade of grey

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Benny Brazil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvteng View Post
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    For me, its unethical but not cheating.

    SKY worked within the rules but pushed them to the absolute maximum. SKY work on the marginal gains principal.

    The problem is that the rules need to be tightened.

    However, don't think SKY were the only team pushing the rules, every team was / is doing it. The problem is that SKY portrayed themselves as whiter than white, when in fact they were just a shade of grey
    OK - did Wiggins gain an advantage with what he did - if so that in my book is cheating

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Brazil View Post
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    OK - did Wiggins gain an advantage with what he did - if so that in my book is cheating
    yep, he gained an advantage, but did so within the rules at the time.

    SKY also had better bikes, better skinsuits, better analysis, all sort of things , that all gave them an advantage over the smaller teams.

    As long as the advantage lies within the rules, for me its not cheating.

    The issue is that the rules need to be tighter, but you cant blame SKY for pushing them to the absolute maximum

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Brazil View Post
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    Is this the same steriod that should only be taken max once a year - yet it is reported he has taken it 9 times in just 4 years?
    Yes that's the one.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvteng View Post
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    yep, he gained an advantage, but did so within the rules at the time.

    SKY also had better bikes, better skinsuits, better analysis, all sort of things , that all gave them an advantage over the smaller teams.

    As long as the advantage lies within the rules, for me its not cheating.

    The issue is that the rules need to be tighter, but you cant blame SKY for pushing them to the absolute maximum
    Surely taking medication for a purpose other than it's required is cheating?
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Surely taking medication for a purpose other than it's required is cheating?
    its only cheating if it breaks the rules of the sport. Its immoral, but if its done within the current rules, its not cheating.

    The problem is the wiggle room / grey area in the rules.

    If TUEs were banned, or had to be verified by an independent doctor (not just in cycling, in athletics also) we wouldnt be discussing this.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvteng View Post
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    its only cheating if it breaks the rules of the sport. Its immoral, but if its done within the current rules, its not cheating.

    The problem is the wiggle room / grey area in the rules.

    If TUEs were banned, or had to be verified by an independent doctor (not just in cycling, in athletics also) we wouldnt be discussing this.
    If it gave him a drug induced advantage it's cheating in my mind.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    I read that athletes have to take this particular drug more often than normal people, and that sometimes athletes who donít suffer from asthma normally would sometimes need this drug due to the gruelling nature of some sports. I must say I find the whole thing a bit suspicious, but at least weíre talking about athletes bending the rules rather than all out cheating like Lance Armstrong.

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  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member Sergio sledge's Avatar
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    I think you'll struggle to find anyone in elite sport who doesn't spend time trying to find loopholes and grey areas in the rules they can exploit in order to get an edge on their competitors. It is positively celebrated in sports like F1 or more recently look at the complaints by other teams at the aerodynamic ridges in the team GB skeleton Bob skinsuits at the winter Olympics. Not technically against the rules but perhaps against the spirit of the rules.

    If what team sky have done is within the rules then they haven't technically cheated, but it does seem to be against the spirit of the rules. I'm sure a lot of other teams in cycling were doing/are doing the same thing. Hopefully the authorities can find a way to close the TUE loophole.

    Sky's biggest problem isn't that they've broken any rules, it is that they have always presented themselves as a team which is whiter than white, a team which has zero tolerance for using drugs to enhance performance, even if it might be technically within the rules. All of that bravado from Dave Brailsford has been shown to be crap, they've shown themselves to be no better than any other team and the way they portrayed themselves has become a noose for they're own neck.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    It's really not right but I got a little sense of satisfaction seeing Wiggins outed. He always comes across as a bit of a smug twat and the reaction of him and his wife to him being replaced as lead rider by Sky was pretty poor.

    Is it just road cycling that seems inherently dirty? I can't recall many, if any, questions about the likes of Hoy and Kenny on the track yet almost every leading road cyclist for years now seems to have been involved in some kind of scandal.
    It may not be right but I completely agree with you :)

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