Plastic Pitches

[Iggy Pope]

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Sorry - but you're not quite 100% on the mark.

Maidstone are pushing for 4G to be accepted into the League structure - and I'm reliably informed that their wish will be granted at the next vote.

I've just returned from a Pub League match on a perfectly acceptable 3G surface and it's sour grapes if you cite the surface as the reason for the result.

Just my opinion.

How does that structure stand right now irrespective of the next vote? Think I'm right on the mark for now.

The Killie surface is not fit for the top flight of Scottish Football. I've just returned from the match too. You've maybe been away too long.

[Sergey]

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If you had witnessed today's televised game and seen the many inconsistencies in the playing surface then your thoughts might be different. It's not sour grapes, it's a fact.

I hold my hands up and admit I (couldn't) see today's match.

If Killie are using 3G then that isn't acceptable - 4G is IMHO.

BTW - I'm a big advocate of synthetic surfaces - at all levels of the game. It's probably why we're lagging behind 3rd world countries in youth development in the game.

YMMV

[Golden Bear]

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I hold my hands up and admit I (couldn't) see today's match.

If Killie are using 3G then that isn't acceptable - 4G is IMHO.

BTW - I'm a big advocate of synthetic surfaces - at all levels of the game. It's probably why we're lagging behind 3rd world countries in youth development in the game.

YMMV

I daresay that some plastic pitches will be better than other plastic surfaces but Rugby Park must rank as one of the poorer ones. Diabolical in fact.

[Billy Whizz]

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Sorry - but you're not quite 100% on the mark.

Maidstone are pushing for 4G to be accepted into the League structure - and I'm reliably informed that their wish will be granted at the next vote.

I've just returned from a Pub League match on a perfectly acceptable 3G surface and it's sour grapes if you cite the surface as the reason for the result.

Just my opinion.

I didn’t there was a pitch graded as G4

[Sergey]

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If you had witnessed today's televised game and seen the many inconsistencies in the playing surface then your thoughts might be different. It's not sour grapes, it's a fact.

I'm not looking to argue the fact - I admitted I didn't see the game - but there is a huge difference between 3G and 4G and 4G is the way forward. It's clear from the recent posts on this thread that Kilmarnock aren't using 4G as that plays nigh-on perfect.

As I stated - I'm an advocate of synthetic surfaces as it's the way forward at youth level.

We (as a nation) can't progress players playing on grass pitches in Scotland in February.

You surely agree on that?

[Billy Whizz]

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I'm not looking to argue the fact - I admitted I didn't see the game - but there is a huge difference between 3G and 4G and 4G is the way forward. It's clear from the recent posts on this thread that Kilmarnock aren't using 4G as that plays nigh-on perfect.

As I stated - I'm an advocate of synthetic surfaces as it's the way forward at youth level.

We (as a nation) can't progress players playing on grass pitches in Scotland in February.

You surely agree on that?

Sergey, the Killie pitch isn’t good enough
Kilmarnock used to have one of the best playing surfaces in Scotland. What they have now is awful

[Iggy Pope]

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Sergey, the Killie pitch isn’t good enough
Kilmarnock used to have one of the best playing surfaces in Scotland. What they have now is awful

The gist, exactly. Not acceptable here, not acceptable anywhere for pro use. Even in the 'pub league' referred to.

[we are hibs]

The worst Ive ever seen was that carpet Dunfermline put down about 12/13 years ago. I'm sure there were players getting injured every other week on it

[Sergey]

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Sergey, the Killie pitch isn’t good enough
Kilmarnock used to have one of the best playing surfaces in Scotland. What they have now is awful

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The gist, exactly. Not acceptable here, not acceptable anywhere for pro use. Even in the 'pub league' referred to.

You boys (girls - I don't know) clearly know more about the Killie pitch than I do. I bow to your knowledge and will admit defeat on this one (I wasn't really arguing about excuses).

4G pitches are the way forward (IMHO) - not Pikey ones...proper synthetic surfaces where matches can be played in Baltic conditions.

[Iggy Pope]

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I'm not looking to argue the fact - I admitted I didn't see the game - but there is a huge difference between 3G and 4G and 4G is the way forward. It's clear from the recent posts on this thread that Kilmarnock aren't using 4G as that plays nigh-on perfect.

As I stated - I'm an advocate of synthetic surfaces as it's the way forward at youth level.

We (as a nation) can't progress players playing on grass pitches in Scotland in February.

You surely agree on that?

(You've replied to the same Golden Bear post twice. Not sure if that was intentional but if you were replying to my thoughts on the English standards, then there are plenty of top flight Scottish pitches, here in February in the frozen Northern wastes, that are fine surfaces. Easter Road and Dens for example and cash strapped Ibrox. Cappielow also in great Nick in tier 2. Some clubs manage it).

[hibbysam]

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You boys (girls - I don't know) clearly know more about the Killie pitch than I do. I bow to your knowledge and will admit defeat on this one (I wasn't really arguing about excuses).

4G pitches are the way forward (IMHO) - not Pikey ones...proper synthetic surfaces where matches can be played in Baltic conditions.

The fact they had a game postponed on said surface says all you need to know about it.

[Iggy Pope]

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The worst Ive ever seen was that carpet Dunfermline put down about 12/13 years ago. I'm sure there were players getting injured every other week on it

That had a seam up the middle like my Granny's back room carpet. (RIP Nana 1892-1977)......

[Billy Whizz]

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(You've replied to the same Golden Bear post twice. Not sure if that was intentional but if you were replying to my thoughts on the English standards, then there are plenty of top flight Scottish pitches, here in February in the frozen Northern wastes, that are fine surfaces. Easter Road and Dens for example and cash strapped Ibrox. Cappielow also in great Nick in tier 2. Some clubs manage it).

I wouldn’t bother, the only 4G at the moment is a phone signal!
Anyone at the game today could see that the surface was atrocious. Killie know how to play to it, think they’ve won 7 on the blue cat home. Made our good players look like amateurs

[Rocky]

Pretty sure I read that Killie are going back to grass from 2019/20 season.

I'm torn on the artificial vs grass debate but I know, as a youth football coach, that it's an absolute boon at our level. The quality of passing play compared to a muddy field is just a massive difference.

The one thing I would say about the bounce of the ball is that any spin on the ball has a much bigger impact on astro than on grass - maybe players need to learn to read the spin.

And I would like to see all astro pitches well watered, they play much better when wet. Obviously the cost of this is prohibitive at youth level but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a condition of professional matches.

[silverhibee]

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The cancer thing’s not been supported bar the initial research. It’s a bit of a misnomer. The Killie pitch, however, is dreadful. The number of unpredictable bounces today was off the scale

The unpredictable bounces are due to build up of pellets, they also cause injury on players who are landing on a foot, land on a pile of pellets and a chance you will snap your ankle, the pitches should be brushed after every game to smooth the pellets out.

They should just be banned from top flight football.

[heretoday]

I hate these pitches. The players wear white boots, they can't handle the bouncing ball and it looks like they're playing in a gym.

[Dashing Bob S]

It gives the likes of No Class Clarke a distinct advantage. Would Killies home record be as impressive on grass? I doubt it.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

That surface yesterday was a shocker, the ball hardly rolled along the surface for the whole game. Whilst their first goal was a cracker their main tactic seemed to be high lobbed balls into the box and then taking advantage of an inconsistently bouncing ball.

[judas]

It's the future imo.

Kids are playing on it all the time now and each new generation of surface is better than the last.

The pitches do need to be watered though.

Use these surfaces in Scandinavian countries and they can play a bit.

My own personal experience is that (as a wobbly ankles guy) uneven and poor grass pitches are far worse for injuries that Astro.

[weecounty hibby]

My son played on one n Airdrie yesterday morning and it was the same as the one at Kilmarnock. Uneven bounce, balls bouncing over kids heads, balls bouncing up at chest level that should never get that high. It is just so unnatural and Inconsistent and grass should always be the surface that top level teams play on

[RyeSloan]

Can any of the advocates of 4G pitches on this thread care to explain what they are?

[SChibs]

Don't see much of an issue with plastic pitches as long as they are up to a certain standard. I'm sure CSKA Moscow have one and they play on it in the UCL. If it was really that bad surely UEFA would tell them they can't use it in that competition?

The majority of teams have access to training on 3G/4G pitches so it's not really alien to them when they go to these stadiums

[SirDavidsNapper]

All for hybrid pitches but unless you have endless sums of money like Hearts its not viable. Plastic is horrendous though.

[Pretty Boy]

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Can any of the advocates of 4G pitches on this thread care to explain what they are?

For amateur football they are ideal imo. Edinburgh Leisure have called off pitches on a Friday morning on at least 4 or 5 occasions this season due to frost or waterlogging. Parks like the Gyle and Cavalry park have 3 or 4 games played on them every weekend and are in a disgraceful condition. There's very few floodlit grass parks in Edinburgh and the ones there are cost a fortune to rent, again for amateur teams training in winter the synthetic surfaces are a necessity.

The very best artificial surfaces are very good, I think the NE Patriots in the NFL have about the best going at the moment but as with everything quality costs.

[RyeSloan]

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For amateur football they are ideal imo. Edinburgh Leisure have called off pitches on a Friday morning on at least 4 or 5 occasions this season due to frost or waterlogging. Parks like the Gyle and Cavalry park have 3 or 4 games played on them every weekend and are in a disgraceful condition. There's very few floodlit grass parks in Edinburgh and the ones there are cost a fortune to rent, again for amateur teams training in winter the synthetic surfaces are a necessity.

The very best artificial surfaces are very good, I think the NE Patriots in the NFL have about the best going at the moment but as with everything quality costs.

Aye I get that for certain levels artificial pitches are a necessity.

What I’m confused by is the 3G / 4G thing.

Google seems to suggest that there really isn’t a such a thing as a 4G pitch and that the black crumb pitches are 3G and that’s about as far as they have been developed.

But I see 4G mentioned a lot and as you have alluded to folk claiming big differences between that nonsense pitch of yesterday and other pitches used at top levels.

[Liam978]

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In Killie’s case, not only is it a terrible surface, they have significantly reduced the size of the pitch to something akin to Tynecastle proportions. They are doing everything they can to give themselves advantage. Can’t blame them but there has to be a limit to this stuff

Yes noticed that yesterday that the touchlines were much further away from the stands, also do they not have to install the under ground heating with those surfaces as the main stand area looked treacherously frozen to which 3 of our players fell at vital moments.

[Hibrandenburg]

Football should be played on grass. It not just about how the ball rolls or bounces, but also about how the foot addresses the ball and what effect stopping, turning and other impact movements have on players joints. You wouldn't expect golf professionals to play on plastic grass so why would you expect footballers to?

[Eyrie]

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Football should be played on grass. It not just about how the ball rolls or bounces, but also about how the foot addresses the ball and what effect stopping, turning and other impact movements have on players joints. You wouldn't expect golf professionals to play on plastic grass so why would you expect footballers to?

I'm sure a similar argument was made about not giving women the vote. All that happened was we got competent and incompetent female politicians to add to the competent and incompetent male politicians.

The correct approach isn't some prehistoric idea that football can only be played on grass but instead a sensible recognition that football should be played on the best possible surface available. A sub-standard grass pitch (eg the PBS) is every bit as unacceptable as a sub-standard plastic pitch like yesterday's.

[monktonharp]

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I’d prefer they were banned. But if not the standard has to be better than the ones Killie and Hamilton have. They are the same as the ones you would play on at Schools all over Scotland.

I think the pitch had an effect on SJM 's game yesterday. he did not have a good game, but his particular normal game is for holding the ball, twisting, turning etc. he kept falling over. as did Scott Allan at times.

[monktonharp]

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For amateur football they are ideal imo. Edinburgh Leisure have called off pitches on a Friday morning on at least 4 or 5 occasions this season due to frost or waterlogging. Parks like the Gyle and Cavalry park have 3 or 4 games played on them every weekend and are in a disgraceful condition. There's very few floodlit grass parks in Edinburgh and the ones there are cost a fortune to rent, again for amateur teams training in winter the synthetic surfaces are a necessity.

The very best artificial surfaces are very good, I think the NE Patriots in the NFL have about the best going at the moment but as with everything quality costs.

lets not bring the Patriots into it. they don't play "soccer" do they?