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Thread: Another one...

  1. #1
    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Another one...

    I debated the merits of even starting this thread.

    There's no point in another .net debate about gun control. It's well tread ground. Thoughts and prayers are absolutely pointless.

    Yet 17 school kids are dead in the USA and all I feel is apathy to a situation that is the norm, and won't ever change.

    What a ****ed up world we live in.


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    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    I debated the merits of even starting this thread.
    Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

    There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

    If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.
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    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

    There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

    If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.
    It's soul-destroying, but at the same time, I feel I've grown completely numb to these events. "Oh, another one..." is almost my default setting.

    Stepping away from schools, there have been 30 mass shootings already in the US in 2018 - it's only the 15th of Feb!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

    There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

    If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.
    Some more stats. JUST THIS YEAR, 45 DAYS!!!

    USA gun violence stats for 2018. 6,572 incidents. 1826 killed.3142 injured, 69 under 11s killed or injured...2018 - 30 mass shootings so far ; 333 teenagers killed or injured; add to this around 2000 suicides per month
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    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    I'll put a slightly different slant on it.

    Our politicians get a lot of grief, much of it deserved.

    They deserve credit for the gun controls that were introduced in the wake of the Dunblane massacre.

    As long as there are guns in the world (and unfortunately, regrettably there still are uses for guns) there will be the possibility of gun problems and incidents.

    But our authorities deserve credit for the fact that we have evolved to a position where we do not have to live with the increased risk of appalling incidents like this happening, which our American friends do have to live with.

    I wish they'd get a ******* grip over there.

    I absolutely love America and really wish I'd had the opportunity to move there, but the gun laws and Donald Trump are big ticks in the negative column.

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    @hibs.net private member BroxburnHibee's Avatar
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    I'm not numb to this, just utterly sickened that the USA just will not do anything about it.

    The NRA have massive influence so don't expect politicians to do anything. Obama had 8 years and didn't do a thing.

    They might have a friend in Trump at the moment but I don't think any president can do anything and no one will get elected to that office if they say they were going to do something about it.

    I truly wonder if there is ANY tipping point at which it becomes too much but I just don't see it.

    It seems as if children dying in school is becoming a fact of life in the USA.
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    Coaching Staff Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee View Post
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    I'm not numb to this, just utterly sickened that the USA just will not do anything about it.

    The NRA have massive influence so don't expect politicians to do anything. Obama had 8 years and didn't do a thing.

    They might have a friend in Trump at the moment but I don't think any president can do anything and no one will get elected to that office if they say they were going to do something about it.

    I truly wonder if there is ANY tipping point at which it becomes too much but I just don't see it.


    It seems as if children dying in school is becoming a fact of life in the USA.
    I was going to post something related to Sandy Hook, but then it's just yet another statistic now. If the massacre of so many innocent young children wasn't going to stimulate change, I don't believe there's anything.

    It doesn't matter the age, gender, sexuality, religion, colour or political persuasion of the victims - their right to bear arms is far more significant. More guns, not less.

    They've had it drilled into them so hard that they're 'entitled' to carry these weapons - that attitude would require generations of work to undo.

    The truth is, a large majority of these idiots care more about their own arsenals than they do their own children, loved ones, friends and colleagues.

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    Its horrible, and as we all keep saying, what needs to happen for the majority to start making noises about it?

    Within an hour of the shooting last night I seen a video on Youtube that a kid had taken from his phone in a room where the shooter was shooting. I believe it was on CBS news but was taken down due to it being too graphic and upsetting (loud bangs and kids screaming). IMO this video should be on every news channel over their to show what IS happening, not that it would probably do much help.
    To make matters worse there was comments on this video saying its another false flag, just like sandy hook, from the left to try and take away our guns. How do you argue with people when this is their automatic mindset within an hour of such a horrible thing?

    Again, I dont belive things are going to change but I have (maybe just because i seen news and videos of somthing live that ive never really watched unfold before, social media youtube etc) but a lot of comments form Americans saying 'why is it always the USA where this is happening'? at least some are starting to ask questions, but I suspect a lot of Americans DO ask these questions when such horrific events happen.

  10. #9
    The 'what can we do about it?' and 'why is this happening?' rhetoric is bizarre.

    It's not mental health or unarmed teachers or any other reason that is causing this, it's non existent gun control. The weight of evidence when comparing the US to other developed countries with tighter gun control backs that up.

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    Donald J. Trump
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    So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
    12:12 PM - Feb 15, 2018







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    One NRA member just told me on social media that gun control doesn't work and the only reason we don't have shootings in the UK is because we have armed police in every school.

    I'm 99.99999% sure that's incorrect but it sums up the mentality of these people and how they believe 'fake news' when it suits them.
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    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    One NRA member just told me on social media that gun control doesn't work and the only reason we don't have shootings in the UK is because we have armed police in every school.

    I'm 99.99999% sure that's incorrect but it sums up the mentality of these people and how they believe 'fake news' when it suits them.
    Itís utterlly bizarre. They really have no grasp on reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    The 'what can we do about it?' and 'why is this happening?' rhetoric is bizarre.

    It's not mental health or unarmed teachers or any other reasob that is causing this, it's non existent gun control. The weight of evidence when comparing the US to other developed countries with tighter gun control backs that up.
    I don't buy into this "why does it always happen here?" argument, they know fine well what the problem is and it's obvious that as a nation they love their guns more than they love their children.

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    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee View Post
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    I'm not numb to this, just utterly sickened that the USA just will not do anything about it.

    The NRA have massive influence so don't expect politicians to do anything. Obama had 8 years and didn't do a thing.

    They might have a friend in Trump at the moment but I don't think any president can do anything and no one will get elected to that office if they say they were going to do something about it.

    I truly wonder if there is ANY tipping point at which it becomes too much but I just don't see it.

    It seems as if children dying in school is becoming a fact of life in the USA.
    He said the right things though.

    I honestly think that if there was anything more that he could have done then he would have.

    His biggest regret during his time in charge will surely be that he wasn't able to make a bigger impact on the gun lobby.

    It is so powerful over there though that even the president struggles to make an impact on it.

    At least Obama seemed deeply upset every time he had to go in front of the cameras and attempt to explain the latest mass shooting, and would acknowledge exactly why it seems to keep happening in the USA, unlike the current incumbent.

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    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Some more stats. JUST THIS YEAR, 45 DAYS!!!

    USA gun violence stats for 2018. 6,572 incidents. 1826 killed.3142 injured, 69 under 11s killed or injured...2018 - 30 mass shootings so far ; 333 teenagers killed or injured; add to this around 2000 suicides per month

    These statistics are frightening, soul destroying, and heart breaking. And still the powers that be in states wonít or canít do anything.

    Six and half thousand incidents, in 45 days. Itís actually difficult to comprehend such a scale of hideous acts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Me too, and I suspect we're not the only ones. I decided against.

    There have been 18 gun related incidents at schools already this year, 8 of which ended with fatalities.. 18 this year!!!

    If we started a thread everytime took advantage of their right to carry arms, we'd need a bespoke forum.
    18 includes a discharge of weapon on school grounds. It doesn't mean an intentional discharge or injury.
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    It doesn't alter the fact that one death is one too many. America gets regular wake-up calls on gun violence but do nothing. Its mind boggling.

    What is not in dispute is gun violence’s pervasiveness and its devastating impact on children. A recent study of World Health Organization data published in the American Journal of Medicine that found that, among high-income nations, 91 percent of children younger than 15 who were killed by bullets lived in the United States.

    And the trends are only growing more dire.

    On average, two dozen children are shot every day in the United States, and in 2016 more youths were killed by gunfire — 1,637 — than during any previous year this millennium.

  18. #17
    Donald J. Trump
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    So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!
    12:12 PM - Feb 15, 2018



    And here is what the president has to say. Words fail me.
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    *** ker.

  19. #18
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    I heard a piece on Five Live tonight driving home from work and it basically posed the question of how many people need to die in a single gun attack before something changes? Does it need to be a major terrorist attack killing hundreds before anything is done?

    It's a really interesting question as the time for change really ought to have been many years ago and there's many individual cases over the years which, alone, would have prompted change in most countries. Some of the stats on gun crime in the USA are utterly staggering, even allowing for their large population.

    Their attitude to gun possession is unbelievable and whenever something like this happens, the people in charge just seem to bury their heads in the sand and either just ignore it completely or even call for more guns!

    My heart goes out to every single friend and relative of the victims of this latest, senseless slaughter but we will be back here in the very near future talking about some other part of the country being the latest place to add itself to the long list of places to fall victim to this scourge of American society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir David Gray View Post
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    I heard a piece on Five Live tonight driving home from work and it basically posed the question of how many people need to die in a single gun attack before something changes? Does it need to be a major terrorist attack killing hundreds before anything is done?

    It's a really interesting question as the time for change really ought to have been many years ago and there's many individual cases over the years which, alone, would have prompted change in most countries. Some of the stats on gun crime in the USA are utterly staggering, even allowing for their large population.

    Their attitude to gun possession is unbelievable and whenever something like this happens, the people in charge just seem to bury their heads in the sand and either just ignore it completely or even call for more guns!

    My heart goes out to every single friend and relative of the victims of this latest, senseless slaughter but we will be back here in the very near future talking about some other part of the country being the latest place to add itself to the long list of places to fall victim to this scourge of American society.
    I think many of those who need to make the decision on a gun ban are terrified of the bloodbath that would more than likely ensue if they tried to enforce it. There would be thousands of incidents similar to Waco all over the country and thousands more smaller incidents. Who would want to be associated with that?

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    I debated the merits of even starting this thread.

    There's no point in another .net debate about gun control. It's well tread ground. Thoughts and prayers are absolutely pointless.

    Yet 17 school kids are dead in the USA and all I feel is apathy to a situation that is the norm, and won't ever change.

    What a ****ed up world we live in.
    Itís just part of their culture. They wonít change.

  22. #21
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I'll put a slightly different slant on it.

    Our politicians get a lot of grief, much of it deserved.

    They deserve credit for the gun controls that were introduced in the wake of the Dunblane massacre.

    As long as there are guns in the world (and unfortunately, regrettably there still are uses for guns) there will be the possibility of gun problems and incidents.

    But our authorities deserve credit for the fact that we have evolved to a position where we do not have to live with the increased risk of appalling incidents like this happening, which our American friends do have to live with.

    I wish they'd get a ******* grip over there.

    I absolutely love America and really wish I'd had the opportunity to move there, but the gun laws and Donald Trump are big ticks in the negative column.
    The other side if this one is that the lad responsible clearly has had a total breakdown with tragic results. The US has sweet FA in the way of a mental health system and Trump is busy ripping up the health access that Obama put in place.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    The other side if this one is that the lad responsible clearly has had a total breakdown with tragic results. The US has sweet FA in the way of a mental health system and Trump is busy ripping up the health access that Obama put in place.
    Personality disorder rather than a mental breakdown possibly according to some.
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  24. #23
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Personality disorder rather than a mental breakdown possibly according to some.
    I understand he had been through some personal trauma recently.

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    I understand he had been through some personal trauma recently.
    Bless. Somehow I doubt this rationalisation from the media would be happening if the dude wasn't white. His MAGA political identity and links with far right groups are being gradually whitewashed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Bless. Somehow I doubt this rationalisation from the media would be happening if the dude wasn't white. His MAGA political identity and links with far right groups are being gradually whitewashed.
    If you try and understand how things happen, youíve got a better chance of preventing them happening again.

  27. #26
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    If you try and understand how things happen, youíve got a better chance of preventing them happening again.
    Sadly, Trump isnt going to a) put federal funds into mental healthcare or b) control what weaponry is available to the mentally unstable. He's passed legislation since 2016 doing the exact opposite of both things. All I can see from the media now is an attempt to hide the reality of home grown, internet fuelled, far right terrorism.

  28. #27
    The fact is the vast majority of people with mental health issues don't go around shooting children or indeed breaking other laws.

    Trying to paint this as a symptom of mental illness is just lazy reporting and the exact opposite of trying to work out how it happened. This is a young man who has been radicalised by extreme videos and literature. We don't try and pass of the actions of IS as being a mental health issue so why are we doing it for this individual?
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  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    The fact is the vast majority of people with mental health issues don't go around shooting children or indeed breaking other laws.

    Trying to paint this as a symptom of mental illness is just lazy reporting and the exact opposite of trying to work out how it happened. This is a young man who has been radicalised by extreme videos and literature. We don't try and pass of the actions of IS as being a mental health issue so why are we doing it for this individual?
    The answer to your question is they need a scapegoat that isn't linked to any of the interest groups that fund his operation. So in the absence of Muslim extremism, blacks, Russians or socialists, theyve gone for the mentally ill.
    Which is peculiar, because if there WERE a proven link between mental health issues and gun violence, Trumps destruction of mental health provision would put him front and centre as the man to blame.

  30. #29
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    I saw today a kids baseball team is being pressured after offering an assault rifle as a prize in a raffle only hours after the massacre. It seems gun raffles are common practice in the states!

    Imagine a kids sports club for under 9ís raising money by raffling an assault rifle and getting the kids to sell the tickets! Crazy stuff.

  31. #30
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    About on average 1 school shooting per week in USA.

    With about 32,000 high schools that's simply staggering.

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