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Thread: Attendances

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    It worked for ICT despite everyone at the time from the two previous clubs vowing not to support them.

    Itís a sensible but sensitive option.

    Maybe not Motherwell, but certainly E Fife, Stirling Albion Cowdenbeath etc.

    Check out that chart that gave the average attendances. To be in the professional set up it should a min of 1000 or something.

    Itís ridiculous that a club that averages 300 fans has any say whatsoever in the running of our professional game.

    I know itís not popular but it should at least be considered. These clubs offer nothing to the game and simply being called Ďía good community clubí just doesnít cut it.

    What does that even mean? Somewhere to have a coffee morning now and again?!
    All of these clubs manage to live within their means - regardless of their attendances. They deserve nothing but respect for managing to do so..

    When Sevco were being formed we were all shouting about Ďsporting integrityí, so provided these clubs maintain their position in the league setup by fair means, then attendances should not matter a jot.


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  3. #92
    Coaching Staff jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringothedog View Post
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    So you are suggesting that we close down clubs and then start a new one with no history, no support and no stadium, all the clubs you mention punch well above their weight. They deserve our respect.



    Itís not the authorities to decide how many clubs there should be and where they should be. They need to create a competitive structure for them to play in.

  4. #93
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Do they need to be part of the professional leagues though? Couldnít they play local or junior leagues? I donít know, just throwing it out there.

    We complain when Hamilton only only bring a handful of fans but itís not exactly the clubs fault.

    If if we want fuller stadiums across the country then maybe that kinda drastic action is required.

    As for merging Hibs and Hearts, itís hardly comparable really is it.

    Cowdenbeaths history? What have ever contributed to the game? Chasing fans away? ICT get more fans than the 2 previous clubs I bet and theyíve won a trophy and played in the top flight.

    Thereís plenty clubs have never had a sniff and never will. They donít produce players that bigger clubs snap up and basically offer nowt to the game.

    If they merged they might do a bit better. They couldnít really do any worse!

  5. #94
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Im not advocating team mergers but it is not quite accurate to suggest these clubs pay their own way. The long tail of the Scottish football dog is heavily subsidised by the top league. Without that money, many would close.


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  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by renato View Post
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    Take out the huge sheep and sevco away supports they had at Murrayfield and their average drops quite a bit.
    They also reported the recent Kilmarnock attendance at 15,862 despite there being 10k there tops, due to the weather.

    Both clubs report the tickets sold apparently, but itís obvious weíve already had more bums on seats this season even including the novelty of their Murrayfield experience.
    Last edited by Austinho; 12-03-2018 at 01:42 AM.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Im not advocating team mergers but it is not quite accurate to suggest these clubs pay their own way. The long tail of the Scottish football dog is heavily subsidised by the top league. Without that money, many would close.


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    The top league isnít going away though, but it is still their money, they budget with that guaranteed. Thatís what you get a tv deal for. If they didnít get that money Iím sure they would budget accordingly. We are subsidised heavily by the old firm, does that mean we donít pay our way?

    Regardless the argument for closing teams down to make our game better is completely bonkers.

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by May2116 View Post
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    The top league isnít going away though, but it is still their money, they budget with that guaranteed. Thatís what you get a tv deal for. If they didnít get that money Iím sure they would budget accordingly. We are subsidised heavily by the old firm, does that mean we donít pay our way?

    Regardless the argument for closing teams down to make our game better is completely bonkers.
    Looking at that list there really is too many clubs in this country


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  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOLA View Post
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    Looking at that list there really is too many clubs in this country


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    Or not enough people

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOLA View Post
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    Looking at that list there really is too many clubs in this country
    What an inane comment.

    There are a lot more clubs in Scotland than those listed. There are the Senior Leagues (Highland and Lowland, East of Scotland and South of Scotland before we get on to the Juniors. May of the Junior teams get better support than some SPFL.

    England has vastly more clubs but only gives League status (PL plus EFL) to 92 clubs. Scotland gives it to 42 (SPFL) with less than 10% of the population. Redesignating the bottom two SPFL divisions as Seniors rather than SPFL would do bugger-all for anyone.

    Merging clubs is bad news for all concerned. Had Inverness Caley gone alone into the SFL I suspect that would have had a better support than ICT have now. Many defected to Ross County in protest over the merger. It left a feeling of bitterness with many.

  11. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    It worked for ICT despite everyone at the time from the two previous clubs vowing not to support them.

    Itís a sensible but sensitive option.

    Maybe not Motherwell, but certainly E Fife, Stirling Albion Cowdenbeath etc.

    Check out that chart that gave the average attendances. To be in the professional set up it should a min of 1000 or something.

    Itís ridiculous that a club that averages 300 fans has any say whatsoever in the running of our professional game.

    I know itís not popular but it should at least be considered. These clubs offer nothing to the game and simply being called Ďía good community clubí just doesnít cut it.

    What does that even mean? Somewhere to have a coffee morning now and again?!
    Has it really worked for ICT fan wise? Ross County up the road continually get bigger crowds, over double what ICT manage this season albeit in the championship. Merging clubs will never work, if it was a good suggestion some of the smaller clubs in the country would havs done it already

  12. #101
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    Those numbers mean that between Hibs, Hearts and Edinburgh City around 7% of Edinburgh's population attend the games along with away fans. This too will be slightly inflated because of Hearts' Murrayfield adventure.

    Stenhousemuir has around 4% of their population attend their games which is pretty decent in my book considering the quality, their bogging strips, the amount of teams around them and the lure of a big team.

    There's nothing to suggest that one of their ST holders is any less passionate than one of ours.

    Killie are averaging 12.5% which is huge!

  13. #102
    All this guff about club size and attendances is Jambo nonsense. We are a small country and well run clubs, whatever their fanbase, deserve to progress in a performance based sport. There are many more populous European countries than Scotland where small clubs have survived, even occasionally thrived in the top divisions. Yes, its bad when clubs are inflated to levels they shouldn't be at, by spending money they don't have through rich owners (or worse, through bumped businesses and Lithuanian taxpayers), but that applies to the entire EPL as well as the Gretnas of this world.

    What's wrong with a club like Hamilton, who bring through plenty of young, talented local players, progressing on footballing merit rather than the number of bodies who they bring to support them at away games?

  14. #103
    Would a Cowdenbeath fan care any less about their club than we do about Hibs? As a Fifer i'm well aware of the affection Dunfermline, Raith Rovers and East fife fans have for their clubs and they all have a history they can be extremely proud of. Dunfermline have a huge fan base and really should be a Premiership club imo.

    These clubs are a huge part of the local communities and a staple part of a lot of peoples weekends. I think amalgamating clubs is a terrible idea. A regionalised system would make sense but not sure how it would work.

  15. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S View Post
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    All this guff about club size and attendances is Jambo nonsense. We are a small country and well run clubs, whatever their fanbase, deserve to progress in a performance based sport. There are many more populous European countries than Scotland where small clubs have survived, even occasionally thrived in the top divisions. Yes, its bad when clubs are inflated to levels they shouldn't be at, by spending money they don't have through rich owners (or worse, through bumped businesses and Lithuanian taxpayers), but that applies to the entire EPL as well as the Gretnas of this world.

    What's wrong with a club like Hamilton, who bring through plenty of young, talented local players, progressing on footballing merit rather than the number of bodies who they bring to support them at away games?
    This. All this dick measuring cringy.

  16. #105
    We need to cut the Professional game to 24 clubs max with the rest regionalised and absolutely strict stadium criteria

    I know the 8/8/8 split got short shrift from the difficult of thinking but two qualifying leagues of 12 play each other twice and split.

    Top 8 play each other again from scratch. No points carry over gives 36 games. Means a cut of 1 x home game on average but that can happen even with current set up.

    Bottom 4 of tier1 and top 4 of tier2 play each other and at end the best 4 join the top qualifying tier next season. Possible 4 team churn but adds a bit bite to game.

    Bottom 8 teams plus top 4 from each new regional Highland/Lowland leagues split into two seeded pools of 8. Top 4 from each pool into 2nd tier qualifying league next season.

    Means Highland/Lowland regional leagues need to have adjusted season timetable, inc summer football.

    Throw in a revamped single cup competition and the revenues are preserved maximised.

    Meaningfull football throught the season and marketable to TV

  17. #106
    Maybe if we were to stop sectarianism at football and give it a generation or two then the Celtic or The Rangers religious bigots offspring might support a local team rather than travelling the length and breadth of the country to Spey their bile at one another. Unfortunately Iím probably hoping for a miracle.

    GGTTH

  18. #107
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Cowdenbeath in trouble:

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...e-within-year/

    Average attendance of 320, and looking like finishing bottom of league 2. Is there still a play off game they'd have to lose to get relegated?
    Mon the Hibs.

  19. #108
    @hibs.net private member Greentinted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Cowdenbeath in trouble:

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...e-within-year/

    Average attendance of 320, and looking like finishing bottom of league 2. Is there still a play off game they'd have to lose to get relegated?
    From wiki:

    From season 2014Ė15, the bottom League Two team enters into a play-off against the winner of a play-off between the winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues.[4] If the Highland or Lowland team wins the final, they are promoted to League Two, with the team finishing 10th being relegated to either the Highland or Lowland league. If the League Two side prevails, they retain their place in the following season's competition.[4]

  20. #109
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentinted View Post
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    From wiki:

    From season 2014Ė15, the bottom League Two team enters into a play-off against the winner of a play-off between the winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues.[4] If the Highland or Lowland team wins the final, they are promoted to League Two, with the team finishing 10th being relegated to either the Highland or Lowland league. If the League Two side prevails, they retain their place in the following season's competition.[4]
    so it's not a foregone conclusion. Thanks.

    I assume if they went into the lowlands and the winners came up from the Highlands then the team located geographically central would flip flop between leagues. In this instance, I think that would actually be cowdenbeath - the travel costs of being in the highland league would be a nightmare.
    Mon the Hibs.

  21. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    so it's not a foregone conclusion. Thanks.

    I assume if they went into the lowlands and the winners came up from the Highlands then the team located geographically central would flip flop between leagues. In this instance, I think that would actually be cowdenbeath - the travel costs of being in the highland league would be a nightmare.
    Yeah Cowdenbeath would go into the lowland league following east Stirling.

  22. #111
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauzee16 View Post
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    Yeah Cowdenbeath would go into the lowland league following east Stirling.
    If the winners that come up to league 2 are from the Highland league there would be an imbalance of teams though. Would 1 team not have to go into the Highland league?
    Mon the Hibs.

  23. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    If the winners that come up to league 2 are from the Highland league there would be an imbalance of teams though. Would 1 team not have to go into the Highland league?
    I think Cowdenbeath would be put in the lowland with only one promotion instead of two from the league below with two promotions from the league below the highland league. Not that many of the highland league teams want to reach the spfl.

  24. #113
    @hibs.net private member Greentinted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauzee16 View Post
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    I think Cowdenbeath would be put in the lowland with only one promotion instead of two from the league below with two promotions from the league below the highland league. Not that many of the highland league teams want to reach the spfl.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but was there not a recent case of a Highland League club knocking promotion back?

  25. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentinted View Post
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but was there not a recent case of a Highland League club knocking promotion back?
    I think the last Highland champions (Brora maybe) that are spending money on old pros didnít fancy it much and didnít compete well in the final against the lowland champions.

  26. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauzee16 View Post
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    I think the last Highland champions (Brora maybe) that are spending money on old pros didnít fancy it much and didnít compete well in the final against the lowland champions.
    Brora actually won the first Highland/Lowand league play off but then lost against Montrose, won the first leg though. There chairman said the below though so yeah obviously not keen

    "looked at all options and there's no way we can avoid competing. We meet SPFL criteria for entry level so we canít opt out, weíve got to go for it."




  27. #116
    If we are talking about clubs merging how could/would it work if a junior club wanted to merge with a smaller senior club ..in order to make a stronger club ! I realise that a major issue of mergers relate to history, town associations, independence, pride, ... Would the key part be about ambition, and /or financial capability making the club more solid.

  28. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    If the winners that come up to league 2 are from the Highland league there would be an imbalance of teams though. Would 1 team not have to go into the Highland league?
    No

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Cowdenbeath in trouble:

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...e-within-year/

    Average attendance of 320, and looking like finishing bottom of league 2. Is there still a play off game they'd have to lose to get relegated?
    I had heard of this and was 1 of the reasons I said about merging clubs!

    Its not just the fact that they have small crowds, its also that their stadia is falling apart and with low crowds there is no way they can afford to upgrade it.

    I know it is hard for supporters to lose their club (just ask Third Lanark) but with a merger they have a chance of having a say in the new club, rather than being lost to football forever!!!!

  30. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by where'stheslope View Post
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    I had heard of this and was 1 of the reasons I said about merging clubs!

    Its not just the fact that they have small crowds, its also that their stadia is falling apart and with low crowds there is no way they can afford to upgrade it.

    I know it is hard for supporters to lose their club (just ask Third Lanark) but with a merger they have a chance of having a say in the new club, rather than being lost to football forever!!!!

    Cold hard facts suggest that there's just not enough interest in some of these small towns for the local teams.

    Maybe crowds of 3-400 is enough to keep a Lowland League team going but any club with ambitions to be even a semi-pro, national league team needs a bigger support base.

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