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  1. #181
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Letís put it this way....

    If the process became incentivised lie you suggest and £5 was returned to me should I miss a game and the club resell my seat (whether in credit or in actual cash), I would donate that incentive back to the club. No questions asked!

    Thatís the difference!
    You're a star.

    If only everyone was like you.

    But, the reality is they're not.
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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    You're not paying attention.

    If I return my ticket, and it's not sold, I get nothing.
    Are you suggesting that EPL teams pay for unsold returns!!!!???????

    The whole point is you should get nothing!!!

    By purchasing the ST you have taken that specific revenue away from the club should you not attend!!!!

    After all the club wants bums in seats, if you buy a ST and donít attend do you think the club are 100% happy about it!!!?

    From a financial POV they will be happy, they had a product and they sold it... good business.

    From a football club POV they will want a bum in that seat shouting and singing and supporting the club further... and more than likely pumping more revenue into the club through pies and bovril and spontaneous club shop sales after we thump the Yams 5-0 and buy a T Shirt after the game that says so.........!

  4. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    You're a star.

    If only everyone was like you.

    But, the reality is they're not.
    And that is why many are called Hibs FANS.

    I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!

  5. #184
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    And that are what many call Hibs FANS.

    I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!
    Super.

    Well done.
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  6. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    And that is why many are called Hibs FANS.

    I consider myself a Hibs SUPPORTER!
    Check you

  7. #186
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    The whole FAN v SUPPORTER issue is universal in football, but in the current climate where we see 100,000 people in the streets of Edinburgh celebrating the Cup victory and then struggle to beat our noisy neighbours in ST sales itís a valid point to be made!

    We could mention the dreaded HIbs Class phrase but I know that will open a whole new can of worms!
    Last edited by BlackSheep; 15-02-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  8. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    And we'll continue to watch the empty seats, week after week.

    At least we'll be pure.
    This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

    To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

    I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

    It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.

  9. #188
    @hibs.net private member grammyb111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

    To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

    I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

    It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.
    In an ideal world every season ticket holder who can't go to a match notifies the club without recompense, no one is disagreeing with that. We don't live in an ideal world though.

    The club have details of the number of returns they get for each game, but human nature would suggest that these will be less for big games, because out of towers etc make a bigger effort to make the game. Next sold out game (no one that I can see is saying that an incentive will be paid if game isn't sold out) the club offers £5 credit to next year's season ticket (whether that is lower for child ST's is for discussion but for the sake of argument say £5 across the board) if you notify that your ticket can be resold and it sells. The club can then assess whether the scheme is profitable vs the uncompensated approach. No one knows the answer to this but a lot of posters (myself included) think it would be, you say it wouldn't be which is fine, but I'm sure we all agree that whichever is more profitable should be the route we go down.

  10. #189
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    This sounds like a bit of moral guilt seaping through!!!

    To suggest that the only way to get fans to release unused seats is to incentivise it is actually a pretty low estimation of your fellow Hibees!

    I think the number of empty seats will dwindle if the club make mor effort to inform everyone how to release them.

    It costs nothing to send out an email to every registered fan explaining how to do so.
    You need to brush up your interpretation skills.

    What you think was "moral" guilt (whatever that is) was, in fact, sarcasm. Why would I feel guilty about empty seats? :

    I have the same estimation of other Hibs supporters as I have of any other group of people. I have never suggested that there is only 1 way to encourage people to release their seats. Unlike you, I'm ruling no initiative out.

    You would agree that recycling our waste is important, wouldn't you. Important to keep council tax down and important for the health of the planet, something which is even more vital than Hibs' continuing success.

    Why doesn't everyone recycle all their recyclable waste? In the UK, around 50% of our glass bottles are not recycled. That's shocking, particularly when you consider that in Finland only 3% gets through the net.

    Why the difference? You've guessed it. There is a small financial incentive for returning used glass bottles. Even for something as important as the health of our planet, and the environment that we and our children live in, people don't do the right thing.

    Mind you, they're not supporters like you, right enough. (For the sake of clarity, that was also sarcasm).

    In any case, as I've said before, it's academic so I'll just leave it there.
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  11. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    I think itís a mixture, but looking at the Famous Five stand, I would estimate that the majority are childrenís STs
    What does an empty children's seat look like compared to an empty adults?

  12. #191
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    All pretty straight forward, offer the ticket holder the money they paid for said seat when they hand it back to the club if they can't make certain games, not really rocket science, maybe charge a small admin fee to do so.

  13. #192
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    If there was an easy way where you could log on and give your ticket back, then recieve a small refund if sold, then i'm all for it.

    Where i would not refund anything, would be if the ticket was a discounted one, they are already benefiting greatly in my opinion.

    I'd imagine if it was easy, and if it did give that refund or a sum of credit say for the club shop, more folk would make the effort than if nothing was forthcoming.

    Personally i feel that would be the fair way to go, sometimes a little incentive is needed for folk to act, it is easy to do nothing.

    And of course if that ticket is resold, its win win.

  14. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    You need to brush up your interpretation skills.

    What you think was "moral" guilt (whatever that is) was, in fact, sarcasm. Why would I feel guilty about empty seats? :

    I have the same estimation of other Hibs supporters as I have of any other group of people. I have never suggested that there is only 1 way to encourage people to release their seats. Unlike you, I'm ruling no initiative out.

    You would agree that recycling our waste is important, wouldn't you. Important to keep council tax down and important for the health of the planet, something which is even more vital than Hibs' continuing success.

    Why doesn't everyone recycle all their recyclable waste? In the UK, around 50% of our glass bottles are not recycled. That's shocking, particularly when you consider that in Finland only 3% gets through the net.

    Why the difference? You've guessed it. There is a small financial incentive for returning used glass bottles. Even for something as important as the health of our planet, and the environment that we and our children live in, people don't do the right thing.

    Mind you, they're not supporters like you, right enough. (For the sake of clarity, that was also sarcasm).

    In any case, as I've said before, it's academic so I'll just leave it there.
    I have said it once and I will say it again, I think we are going the same point with slightly differing perspectives... if a solution that maximises Hibs finances for ST return (ie no incentive) didn’t work, then I would say trying an incentivised solution would be the next step... I would just prefer that the fans backed the non incentive method.

    Like the Finnish incentivised recycling programme, I don’t deny that it would work, but I cannot deny that it’s disappointing that funds that could be used for better things are used to pay people to ‘do the right thing’. Maybe it’s a generational thing, I see a lot more older generations that do not make the effort to recycle. It’s certainly not down to being misinformed about recycling in the uk, most councils do almost all of the work for you! Those who choose not to recycle in this country are more than likely just lazy. In the ST scenario the fans are actually asked to do a bit more work themselves (a quick email seems too much for some folk!) so I can see their struggle with the additional steps :)

    Can I ask you directly, what is your issue with the club getting all the money from reselling STs?
    You are more than aware of the process of returning your ST, do you return it if you cannot attend and cannot pass it on to a friend?
    Last edited by BlackSheep; 16-02-2018 at 11:44 AM.

  15. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Are you suggesting that EPL teams pay for unsold returns!!!!???????

    The whole point is you should get nothing!!!

    By purchasing the ST you have taken that specific revenue away from the club should you not attend!!!!

    After all the club wants bums in seats, if you buy a ST and donít attend do you think the club are 100% happy about it!!!?

    From a financial POV they will be happy, they had a product and they sold it... good business.

    From a football club POV they will want a bum in that seat shouting and singing and supporting the club further... and more than likely pumping more revenue into the club through pies and bovril and spontaneous club shop sales after we thump the Yams 5-0 and buy a T Shirt after the game that says so.........!
    Well that's a new one.
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  16. #195
    @hibs.net private member grammyb111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    I have said it once and I will say it again, I think we are going the same point with slightly differing perspectives... if a solution that maximises Hibs finances for ST return (ie no incentive) didnít work, then I would say trying an incentivised solution would be the next step... I would just prefer that the fans backed the non incentive method.

    Like the Finnish incentivised recycling programme, I donít deny that it would work, but I cannot deny that itís disappointing that funds that could be used for better things are used to pay people to Ďdo the right thingí. Maybe itís a generational thing, I see a lot more older generations that do not make the effort to recycle. Itís certainly not down to being misinformed about recycling in the uk, most councils do almost all of the work for you! Those who choose not to recycle in this country are more than likely just lazy. In the ST scenario the fans are actually asked to do a bit more work themselves (a quick email seems too much for some folk!) so I can see their struggle with the additional steps :)

    Can I ask you directly, what is your issue with the club getting all the money from reselling STs?
    You are more than aware of the process of returning your ST, do you return it if you cannot attend and cannot pass it on to a friend?
    I'd imagine his issue is exactly the same as mine, that if incentives paid makes Hibs more money than the status quo then we should introduce them. Simple as that for me. The recycling analogy is relevant here, offer a reward and you'll get more people emailing the club I can almost guarantee it. If that amount more equates to more than the cost of the incentive (I would suggest it certainly would) then Hibs are making more than they would be doing nothing. I don't see what you're missing here?

  17. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Onceinawhile View Post
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    What does an empty children's seat look like compared to an empty adults?
    There's no dents in the back of the seat infront

  18. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by grammyb111 View Post
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    I'd imagine his issue is exactly the same as mine, that if incentives paid makes Hibs more money than the status quo then we should introduce them. Simple as that for me. The recycling analogy is relevant here, offer a reward and you'll get more people emailing the club I can almost guarantee it. If that amount more equates to more than the cost of the incentive (I would suggest it certainly would) then Hibs are making more than they would be doing nothing. I don't see what you're missing here?
    We are not debating the status quo tho are we... we are debating whether incentives should or shouldnít be used to make fans aware of the process. Not whether incentives would work better than no incentives!!

    So you are saying that you think Hibs making £22 per resold seat, is worse than Hibs making £17 on resold seats and you get a fiver!!!!!

    My argument has always been to make the process easy, straight forward and most of all with no financial incentive. So that HIBS CAN MAXIMISE FUNDS, not you!!!

    Itís seems that a lot of people on here would only return their unused ST if they were rewarded for doing so, which I feel is a shame.

    What it seems many of you are doing in this debate is making assumptions that should every ST holder be perfectly aware of how to return their unused ST seat that most would only do so for financial gain!!!
    Last edited by BlackSheep; 16-02-2018 at 01:35 PM.

  19. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Well that's a new one.
    Another who reads one line out of context and highlights it for their own agenda I see!!!


    Do you need me to explain in context???

    Hereís a hint... read the rest of the post and you will understand the point.
    Last edited by BlackSheep; 16-02-2018 at 01:37 PM.

  20. #199
    @hibs.net private member grammyb111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    We are not debating the status quo tho are we... we are debating whether incentives should or shouldnít be used to make fans aware of the process. Not whether incentives would work better than no incentives!!

    So you are saying that you think Hibs making £22 per resold seat, is worse than Hibs making £17 on resold seats and you get a fiver!!!!!

    My argument has always been to make the process easy, straight forward and most of all with no financial incentive. So that HIBS CAN MAXIMISE FUNDS, not you!!!

    Itís seems that a lot of people on here would only return their unused ST if they were rewarded for doing so, which I feel is a shame.

    What it seems many of you are doing in this debate is making assumptions that should every ST holder be perfectly aware of how to return their unused ST seat that most would only do so for financial gain!!!
    What I do agree with is that ideally everyone who couldn't go would release their ticket back to the club and the club would resell it. There are a number of issues with that though where 'maximising revenue' cannot work:
    Since this is only happening for sold out games would we only resell that to an adult rather than concession, if it was to a concession we'd make less so aren't maximising revenue.
    All the people (myself included) who can't go but pass on their ticket to a friend, if we passed it back to the club the club would make money, but just about everyone would accept that giving it to a friend is a reasonable thing to do

    We have at most six games a season where this might be an issue. By all means the club could (and should) do more to make it clear to people that if they can't go they should return their season ticket, but how long does that plea fall on deaf ears before they give up? Some people need incentivised to do things, so give it a try and see if it's more profitable.

  21. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by grammyb111 View Post
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    What I do agree with is that ideally everyone who couldn't go would release their ticket back to the club and the club would resell it. There are a number of issues with that though where 'maximising revenue' cannot work:
    Since this is only happening for sold out games would we only resell that to an adult rather than concession, if it was to a concession we'd make less so aren't maximising revenue.
    All the people (myself included) who can't go but pass on their ticket to a friend, if we passed it back to the club the club would make money, but just about everyone would accept that giving it to a friend is a reasonable thing to do

    We have at most six games a season where this might be an issue. By all means the club could (and should) do more to make it clear to people that if they can't go they should return their season ticket, but how long does that plea fall on deaf ears before they give up? Some people need incentivised to do things, so give it a try and see if it's more profitable.
    Finally a sensible reply.

    Yup, we all have friends to pass on our tickets to in our absence but there is the odd time that even they cannot go in your place.

    This is where this discussion started.

    Yes how long can the club ask for unused ST to be returned? No one knows because they havenít tried it yet... their recent mention of the process on social media was the first I have seen publicly tried and it was more of a pop than with an attention catching bang if you get what I mean.

    The one aspect of this discussion that seems to divide people is the incentive-to-make-folk-aware approach.

    Until the club have tried and failed to make it public knowledge and shoved it down our throats that we can return unused STs I am not for trying the incentive based approach.

    As for maximising profits, the tickets can be resold to any level of buyer be it Adult, Child or Concession... my only wish is that if the ticket is resold, HIbs keep 100% of the resale.

    I am in not correct in saying that if we can create a system where ST holder return their ticket for no reward and Hibs make 100% resale then this is the best solution.

    It just seems to me that some folk are not willing to try and spread the word and make fans aware of the process without an added incentive.

  22. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Finally a sensible reply.

    Yup, we all have friends to pass on our tickets to in our absence but there is the odd time that even they cannot go in your place.

    This is where this discussion started.

    Yes how long can the club ask for unused ST to be returned? No one knows because they havenít tried it yet... their recent mention of the process on social media was the first I have seen publicly tried and it was more of a pop than with an attention catching bang if you get what I mean.

    The one aspect of this discussion that seems to divide people is the incentive-to-make-folk-aware approach.

    Until the club have tried and failed to make it public knowledge and shoved it down our throats that we can return unused STs I am not for trying the incentive based approach.

    As for maximising profits, the tickets can be resold to any level of buyer be it Adult, Child or Concession... my only wish is that if the ticket is resold, HIbs keep 100% of the resale.

    I am in not correct in saying that if we can create a system where ST holder return their ticket for no reward and Hibs make 100% resale then this is the best solution.

    It just seems to me that some folk are not willing to try and spread the word and make fans aware of the process without an added incentive.
    Full marks on three fronts:
    - Flogging the arse out of this thread with a truly vast number of words typed
    - Relentless commitment to supercilious responses to reasonable posts
    - Bringing exceptional levels of complexity to arguments around a really straightforward subject

    So to summarise, if Hibs do a better job of publicising the returns process they'll probably be able to resell more tickets without an incentive scheme. And if there are still lots of empty seats at sold out games after doing that then considering an incentive scheme is worth doing if it generates, net, more income for Hibs because volume increase offsets cost of incentive.

    Is that about the size of it?

  23. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Another who reads one line out of context and highlights it for their own agenda I see!!!


    Do you need me to explain in context???

    Hereís a hint... read the rest of the post and you will understand the point.
    I read the whole post and whatever context you try to put that daft statement into it still sounds daft. Here's a hint for you, stop trying to belittle everyone elses opinion and accept that not everyone agrees with you.
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    an advantage, then he should be."

  24. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
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    Full marks on three fronts:
    - Flogging the arse out of this thread with a truly vast number of words typed
    - Relentless commitment to supercilious responses to reasonable posts
    - Bringing exceptional levels of complexity to arguments around a really straightforward subject

    So to summarise, if Hibs do a better job of publicising the returns process they'll probably be able to resell more tickets without an incentive scheme. And if there are still lots of empty seats at sold out games after doing that then considering an incentive scheme is worth doing if it generates, net, more income for Hibs because volume increase offsets cost of incentive.

    Is that about the size of it?
    Yup.

  25. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Yup.
    Ah well, why didn't you just say that😁

    I'll go along with that as a reasonable suggestion.
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    an advantage, then he should be."

  26. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Ah well, why didn't you just say that😁

    I'll go along with that as a reasonable suggestion.
    Those who know me well, know I am terrible at summarising! 😂

    But thatís the long and short of it.

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