SPORTSCENE- Is it on tonight ???

[SkintHibby]

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It's just terrible negotiation from the SPFL. You can't blame BBC for trying to get value for money.

If the SPFL asked the UK BBC for a population percentage fair ratio of funds for Scottish Football the BBC would have told them to bolt. Trust me.

Really irks me why Scots people put up with this crap.

[McD]

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A part from losing TV revenue and exposure

That wasn’t what was said though. The previous post said the champions league banned other matches from being played, this is incorrect on both counts. It’s neither the champions league who ban matches, nor are the matches banned. What you’ve posted is sadly correct, but not relevant to what was said.

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I don't think there is now.

Happy to be corrected mate

[Northernhibee]

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If the SPFL asked the UK BBC for a population percentage fair ratio of funds for Scottish Football the BBC would have told them to bolt. Trust me.

Really irks me why Scots people put up with this crap.

Why should they pay millions more than what is required for a product? To not upset some sensitive souls who don't understand that a product is worth only what people are willing to pay for it?

Blame the SFA for devaluing the game so much over the last few years.

[blackpoolhibs]

What percentage do the BBC pay towards English football in ratio to the population?

[brog]

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Yes. They didn't analyse it though.

I thought it was offside at the time.

I'm not sure why their goal was ruled out either.

Both goals were offside. Ours was clearly off, theirs more marginal but still off. Good to see Scottish officials getting it right for once.

[Hibbyradge]

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Dont think you even get SPL highlight in England,apart from online.

If it was a possibility....people may watch it.

I get BBC Scotland in York and I watch Sportscene on it. Sky channel 951.

No-one else I've met watches it, ever.

[greenlex]

Just saw the”foul” for the free kick Rangers scored from. A fee kick? Seriously? Why did Sportscene not show and discuss it? Are the fed pictures from RangersTV because of the ongoing dispute? Contentious doesn’t cover it.

[Beefster]

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What percentage do the BBC pay towards English football in ratio to the population?

It's irrelevant. The BBC, rightly, pay as little as they can to broadcast a sport.

The sad reality is that if the BBC don't pay what they do for EPL highlights packages, someone else will. That's not the case in Scotland. Anyone looking to blame the BBC for that is looking in the wrong place.

[Ryan69]

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I get BBC Scotland in York and I watch Sportscene on it. Sky channel 951.

No-one else I've met watches it, ever.

If you pay sky or virgin you do yes

Not on normal TV or freeview though. Freely available..They are not.

[Hibbyradge]

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If you pay sky or virgin you do yes

Not on normal TV or freeview though. Freely available..They are not.

That's correct.

That's because, apart from very occasional Rantic games, there is absolutely no interest in Scottish football or enthusiasm to watch it.

There's always Scottish games on BT or Sky, but even the pubs don't bother showing them, regardless if there's an English game on or not.

That's just the UK. It's even more stark across the globe.

[jgl07]

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Why should they pay millions more than what is required for a product? To not upset some sensitive souls who don't understand that a product is worth only what people are willing to pay for it?

Blame the SFA for devaluing the game so much over the last few years.

Absolutely.

Watch the highlights of a match between Hamilton Accies and Dundee in a two sided stadium with less than 2,000 in attendance and see what TV ratings that is likely to generate. Compare that with a average match in the English Premier League or even the EFL Championship and you will see why so little is paid to the SPFL.

The SPFL and before them the SPL conspired to shift as much cash to the Bigot Brothers as they could do. In England the TV money is much more evenly distributed and that has made the PL more competitive (not this season though!). Over the last six seasons, there have been four different winners: City, United, Chelsea and Leicester. In Scotland, there has been one: Celtic.

[patlowe]

GEEK ALERT

This is slightly off-topic as it doesn't cover the highlights package, but I thought I would do a very rough comparison of TV figures to get a vague idea of whether the difference in TV deals between Scotland and England is simply the market at play, as some have suggested, or whether it is actually a case of gross mismanagement and unfairness.

I'm just on my lunch break so doing a quick comparison based on some viewing figures for live TV I have to hand. I appreciate that there are other factors at play: no. of teams, no. of games, Rantic skew etc, so a more detailed analysis would be interesting – I might consider it if I find some time and up to date data!

Scotland

In 2016/17, the average viewing figure was 150,511 for the SPFL Premiership and 198,000 for the Scottish Cup.

The lowest average in the premiership was Dundee Utd at 62,286. The highest average in the premiership was Celtic at 211,432 (Celtic v Rangers matches tended to get between 300-500,000).

The Scottish TV live rights are worth around £19m per season.

(Interesting stats from the year before - The average for Hibs in the Championship that season (obviously inflated by games vs Rangers) was 147,000 and there were 151,000 and 192,000 viewers for the cup games at Tynie over the two years. Hibs vs Falkirk in the playoffs had 126,000 and 112,000 viewers for the respective legs. The playoff final legs (between Falkirk and Killie) had 136,000 and 115,000 viewers. There were 247,000 viewers for the 2016 cup final - can’t for the life of me remember the game )

England

In the first half of 2016/17 (the only specific stats I could find on a quick search) the average viewing figure for prime time English Premiership matches (Sunday afternoons) was 1,100,000.

The lowest average was Hull with 600,000. The highest average was around 1,100,000 (Liverpool and Man United).

The English TV live rights are worth roughly £1.83bn per season.

Comparison

The average viewing figures for English football were just above 7 x those for Scottish football, and that is comparing our total average (all kick off times included) with England’s prime-time figures (as that is all I can find). This also doesn’t take into account our relatively well-watched and woefully undervalued Scottish Cup and play-off coverage. However, the reason the English stats were widely reported on is because they were apparently at a record low, so that should also be taken into account.

The highest average viewing figure for English football is just above 5 x Scottish football (Celtic vs Man U/Liverpool).

The lowest average viewing figure is just under 10 x Scottish football (Hull vs Dundee Utd).

Now that is a significant difference but, considering the populations of our nations, we are very much pulling our weight. Even if you compare the very lowest viewing figure from last season in Scotland (37,000), which is silly as it discounts the significant number of healthy audiences throughout the season, and compare it with the average in England (1.1m), it is a multiple of 29 to 30.

Now, the English Premiership receives around 95 x what Scottish football does for live TV rights. I’m not saying our deal should relate directly to the viewing figures of course but that differential is off the scale and is completely unrepresentative of how many people want to watch English and Scottish football respectively.

Conclusion

Even allowing for variables and the unscientific nature of the comparison, we are clearly absolutely shafted by the broadcasting companies and the failure of our leaders to sell our game appropriately. Is it time to take broadcasting in house?

(Credit www.thefootballlife.co.uk which is where I got the SPFL info)

[Hibbyradge]

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GEEK ALERT

This is slightly off-topic as it doesn't cover the highlights package, but I thought I would do a very rough comparison of TV figures to get a vague idea of whether the difference in TV deals between Scotland and England is simply the market at play, as some have suggested, or whether it is actually a case of gross mismanagement and unfairness.

I'm just on my lunch break so doing a quick comparison based on some viewing figures for live TV I have to hand. I appreciate that there are other factors at play: no. of teams, no. of games, Rantic skew etc, so a more detailed analysis would be interesting – I might consider it if I find some time and up to date data!

Scotland

In 2016/17, the average viewing figure was 150,511 for the SPFL Premiership and 198,000 for the Scottish Cup.

The lowest average in the premiership was Dundee Utd at 62,286. The highest average in the premiership was Celtic at 211,432 (Celtic v Rangers matches tended to get between 300-500,000).

The Scottish TV live rights are worth around £19m per season.

(Interesting stats from the year before - The average for Hibs in the Championship that season (obviously inflated by games vs Rangers) was 147,000 and there were 151,000 and 192,000 viewers for the cup games at Tynie over the two years. Hibs vs Falkirk in the playoffs had 126,000 and 112,000 viewers for the respective legs. The playoff final legs (between Falkirk and Killie) had 136,000 and 115,000 viewers. There were 247,000 viewers for the 2016 cup final - can’t for the life of me remember the game )

England

In the first half of 2016/17 (the only specific stats I could find on a quick search) the average viewing figure for prime time English Premiership matches (Sunday afternoons) was 1,100,000.

The lowest average was Hull with 600,000. The highest average was around 1,100,000 (Liverpool and Man United).

The English TV live rights are worth roughly £1.83bn per season.

Comparison

The average viewing figures for English football were just above 7 x those for Scottish football, and that is comparing our total average (all kick off times included) with England’s prime-time figures (as that is all I can find). This also doesn’t take into account our relatively well-watched and woefully undervalued Scottish Cup and play-off coverage. However, the reason the English stats were widely reported on is because they were apparently at a record low, so that should also be taken into account.

The highest average viewing figure for English football is just above 5 x Scottish football (Celtic vs Man U/Liverpool).

The lowest average viewing figure is just under 10 x Scottish football (Hull vs Dundee Utd).

Now that is a significant difference but, considering the populations of our nations, we are very much pulling our weight. Even if you compare the very lowest viewing figure from last season in Scotland (37,000), which is silly as it discounts the significant number of healthy audiences throughout the season, and compare it with the average in England (1.1m), it is a multiple of 29 to 30.

Now, the English Premiership receives around 95 x what Scottish football does for live TV rights. I’m not saying our deal should relate directly to the viewing figures of course but that differential is off the scale and is completely unrepresentative of how many people want to watch English and Scottish football respectively.

Conclusion

Even allowing for variables and the unscientific nature of the comparison, we are clearly absolutely shafted by the broadcasting companies and the failure of our leaders to sell our game appropriately. Is it time to take broadcasting in house?

(Credit www.thefootballlife.co.uk which is where I got the SPFL info)

The £1.83bn figure you quote isn't from the BBC.

THE BBC paid £204m for 3 years highlights in 2015.

MOTD gets around 4m viewers.

People in Scotland aren't getting shafted.

[patlowe]

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The £1.83bn figure you quote isn't from the BBC.

THE BBC paid £204m for 3 years highlights in 2015.

MOTD gets around 4m viewers.

People in Scotland aren't getting shafted.

As I noted, I was going off topic to take a broader look at TV rights (specifically live) rather than the BBC or highlights. Apologies, I shouldn't conflate the BBC with my comments re subscription broadcasting companies.

[WhileTheChief..]

The EPL has a huge following worldwide.

Think of the amount that they earn from selling tv rights in Taiwan, Japan, China etc. These are huge markets.

I don’t think we can blame Doncaster etc for not getting billions for the rights to Dundee v Hamilton!

I know it’s not a popular view but the Old Firm is where the interest from abroad comes. That means any new deal is only going to make them richer.

We might get a few more quid but the gap would increase further between the Old Firm and the rest.

[patlowe]

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The EPL has a huge following worldwide.

Think of the amount that they earn from selling tv rights in Taiwan, Japan, China etc. These are huge markets.

I don’t think we can blame Doncaster etc for not getting billions for the rights to Dundee v Hamilton!

I know it’s not a popular view but the Old Firm is where the interest from abroad comes. That means any new deal is only going to make them richer.

We might get a few more quid but the gap would increase further between the Old Firm and the rest.

The overseas deal is entirely separate though. It still doesn't explain why 10 times as many viewers equates to 100 times as much money for the rights.

For Dundee V Hamilton see Stoke v West Brom. It's all relative.

[WhileTheChief..]

Simple explanation is that companies were fighting over the rights to show the EPL and were willing to pay mega bucks. Probably will again in the future as it’s well worth it to them to do so.

It’s just not the case with Scottish football. There is very little, if any, interest in it outwith Scotland.

It’s no ones fault and there doesn’t need to be anyone to blame, it’s just the way it is.

Similarly BT pay for the rights to show Italian, German and French football here. They don’t for the Finnish, Latvian or Belgian leagues though. Why? Because there isn’t a market for it here.

We are trying to compare our league with the richest and most popular in the world. Madness.

[Hibbyradge]

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Apologies, I shouldn't conflate the BBC with my comments re subscription broadcasting companies.

Yeah, it was that which prompted my reply.

I can't find Sportscene viewing figures anywhere so it's difficult to make a direct comparison between the £2.8m per year paid by the BBC to Scottish football and the £68m to the English FA.

However, the SPFL valued its highlights at £3m so it's receiving close to that.

As an aside, I wonder how much the BBC pays for highlights of Welsh and N Irish football.

[Hibbyradge]

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The overseas deal is entirely separate though. It still doesn't explain why 10 times as many viewers equates to 100 times as much money for the rights.

For Dundee V Hamilton see Stoke v West Brom. It's all relative.

It's many times more than 10 times, though.

There are 2 live English games on a Saturday, often 3 on a Sunday, and games throughout the week.

There's usually 1 Scottish game, sometimes two, sometimes none.

[patlowe]

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Yeah, it was that which prompted my reply.

I can't find Sportscene viewing figures anywhere so it's difficult to make a direct comparison between the £2.8m per year paid by the BBC to Scottish football and the £68m to the English FA.

However, the SPFL valued its highlights at £3m so it's receiving close to that.

As an aside, I wonder how much the BBC pays for highlights of Welsh and N Irish football.

Looking at your figures re highlights I would say the BBC probably pay a fair rate for Scottish highlights. I wouldn't imagine the viewing figures for Sportscene would be great at all, although that's purely speculation on my part and issues around scheduling, production quality and the cultural significance of MOTD make it hard to compare.

[Hibbyradge]

There are 12 SPFL Premiership games live on TV between today and 1 April. There are 30 live EPL games.

Factor in the quality and the salaries and it's easier to understand the high cost of screening the games.

[Sammy7nil]

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Looking at your figures re highlights I would say the BBC probably pay a fair rate for Scottish highlights. I wouldn't imagine the viewing figures for Sportscene would be great at all, although that's purely speculation on my part and issues around scheduling, production quality and the cultural significance of MOTD make it hard to compare.

That has a massive impact on viewing figures.

[patlowe]

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It's many times more than 10 times, though.

There are 2 live English games on a Saturday, often 3 on a Sunday, and games throughout the week.

There's usually 1 Scottish game, sometimes two, sometimes none.

That is a good point, and a more in-depth analysis would be useful. I am not naive enough to think that we could get anywhere close to what the English game gets in TV money but the intention is to show that it is not one man and his dog watching Scottish games while huge armies of people around the UK sit and watch English matches. Far from it, yet that is what people suggest when they justify us getting a miniscule percentage of what other leagues get for TV rights.

[Hibbyradge]

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That is a good point, and a more in-depth analysis would be useful. I am not naive enough to think that we could get anywhere close to what the English game gets in TV money but the intention is to show that it is not one man and his dog watching Scottish games while huge armies of people around the UK sit and watch English matches. Far from it, yet that is what people suggest when they justify us getting a miniscule percentage of what other leagues get for TV rights.

It would be interesting to find out how many people in Scotland watch the live English games too.

Very, very few people in England watch the Scottish games.

Edit: I was the only person in the pub watching the game at Tiny in the 2016 Scottish Cup. There were 2 big screens and a large TV showing the English games, and Hibs were on a tiny screen at the back.

When Hanlon scored the equaliser, I instinctively jumped to my feet and shouted "Get in there, ya f***ing" beauty", at the top of my voice.

Everyone immediately shut up, turned around and looked at me standing there with my arms in the air

[ancient hibee]

It’s actually very difficult to get a true picture(no pun)There is the difference between subscription,where income from subscribers and advertising,particularly gambling,plays a part in reducing the cost to the TV companies,and free TV.As stated there are often half a dozen more English than Scottish games on in any one week so it’s not just the average viewing figures to think about.I wonder if the average viewers are domestic ones only because clearly the pubs and clubs contribute to the numbers particularly for SKY and BT.The whole subject is interesting and I read somewhere that Doncaster has negotiated an increase for Scottish games to take effect next season.

[patlowe]

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It would be interesting to find out how many people in Scotland watch the live English games too.

Very, very few people in England watch the Scottish games.

I would agree on both points. I would also be interested to see how many subscriptions there are in Scotland (although this may be depressingly Old Firm based) and how many would cancel if they stopped showing Scottish football. It may or may not be significant.

[Beefster]

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As I noted, I was going off topic to take a broader look at TV rights (specifically live) rather than the BBC or highlights. Apologies, I shouldn't conflate the BBC with my comments re subscription broadcasting companies.

Viewing figures are not particularly relevant for Sky, beyond driving advertising sales. They pay big bucks for the things that drive customers to take out sport subscriptions.

[PatHead]

Does anyone know how much Sky pays for rugby league and their viewing figures?

[Geo_1875]

SKY are guilty of not supporting football in Scotland. Travel to any European country and SKY will advertise and broadcast domestic football to an extent that we can only dream of. It may be that other countries football authorities (or possibly even governments) have more clout than we do in Scotland.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

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It would be interesting to find out how many people in Scotland watch the live English games too.

Very, very few people in England watch the Scottish games.

Edit: I was the only person in the pub watching the game at Tiny in the 2016 Scottish Cup. There were 2 big screens and a large TV showing the English games, and Hibs were on a tiny screen at the back.

When Hanlon scored the equaliser, I instinctively jumped to my feet and shouted "Get in there, ya f***ing" beauty", at the top of my voice.

Everyone immediately shut up, turned around and looked at me standing there with my arms in the air

LOL

I did that exact same thing! Celebrating all by myself like an escaped mental patient

My wife went to the bar to get more drinks, the barmaid said "he'll be happy they won" "No they only got a draw" was her eye rolling response