We are delighted to report that we continue to receive kind donations of Shares from ordinary supporters as can be seen here http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/news.html
Please contact us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk if you would like to donate shares.
HSL
Results 1 to 30 of 39
Thread: Share Donations
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05-02-2018 06:57 PM #1
Share Donations
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06-02-2018 09:51 AM #2
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Many have said over the last few months that donating shares to HSL would help them grow their share %. Personally, I feel this is a cracking way to grow their share % as I've always said 25.01% is a must for HSL.
For me, and I know many may not agree, but a strong HSL would prevent any such issues like the 'Mercer' debacle and prevent any such issues before they got off the ground. We (I've said it before) also need to look to the bigger picture and ask ourselves what kind of club will we be leaving for future generations? Granted, we have a sizable % within the club, but surely a strong HSL would be a good thing. Leeann, RP, and STF won't be around for ever and I do worry what will become of our club once they/we have all moved on.
Some have also touched on the fact that there are sizable shareholders that surpass what most would call a small shareholding, this is a big concern for me also.
Not sure what their % is sitting at (perhaps HSL Official can give an update?) thought it was around 12%. Also, the link doesn't work on my phone but I follow you on facebook anyway.
https://www.facebook.com/hfcsupporte...type=3&theater
GGTTHLast edited by HappyHibby93; 06-02-2018 at 09:53 AM.
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06-02-2018 11:01 AM #3This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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06-02-2018 11:13 AM #4This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Agree. A meaningful, and hopefully protective shareholding above 25% for HSL has been my ambition for it since the outset. Will review again when that's achieved. The larger or nominee shareholding are not necessarily a huge concern as a fair few will be Hibbies who can either afford to spend more or just choose not to have their holding known publicly. I know at least one who doesn't want his family to know he's spending even more cash on Hibs
"I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"
Sir Matt Busby
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06-02-2018 11:24 AM #5
Did Leann not say on the radio recently that 30% of Hibs shares were owned by fans? If that is correct we are already protected from the Mercer type attack but that being said still good to build up the fan shareholding percentage.
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06-02-2018 11:45 AM #6
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I’m more interested in more cash coming in for HSL
Whilst it’s good that people are donating their shares it’s not providing any extra funding
Indeed others may see as getting closer to the target percentage and think they don’t really need to get involved
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06-02-2018 12:15 PM #7This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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06-02-2018 12:19 PM #8This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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"I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"
Sir Matt Busby
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06-02-2018 12:37 PM #9This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Lots of people have complained that HSL is not good at communicating and having a new website is not of itself going to cure that. There really is no reason for the News section to be such a dogs dinner.
IMO they really need to get away from having all those weel kent personalities on board and getting people with savvy involved.
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06-02-2018 03:39 PM #10
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I would be happier if those keen on HSL increasing its shareholding to a significant figure would be able to help it become more professional.It might be for example that paid administrators may be necessary.I only say this because HSL seems to get a lot of criticism on here which is clearly partly because it’s run on a voluntary basis .
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06-02-2018 07:44 PM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We would be most grateful if you could pass on our details to your friend. We can assure him/her that any donation would not be made public so no need for anyone to know how much they are helping Hibs !
HSL
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06-02-2018 07:48 PM #12This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Agreed completely. Of course the biggest benefit of all is simply getting more money to help Neil keep improving the playing squad.
HSL
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06-02-2018 07:51 PM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We agree with you completely and hope that other fans can see the sense in have a fully transparent and democratic vehicle that will facilitate such a vote.
HSL
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06-02-2018 07:52 PM #14This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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"I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"
Sir Matt Busby
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06-02-2018 08:29 PM #15
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Is this the monumental HSL relaunch?
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07-02-2018 10:43 AM #16
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Absolutely agree, the cash that has come in over the years has made a difference and it would be really good if it could grow.
What I don't get it why so many have to have a kick at HSL when they have clearly asked for help with admin. I have paid in and I'm now a full member, unfortunately I couldn't keep it going and the help I got from them was brilliant.
Do people just jump on and have a kick at them for the sake of it. If you have a real issue then get in touch with them and they will sort it, why wouldn't they?
I genuinely can't be ar$ed with all this bickering towards a group who have put themselves in a position the help the club. The finances they raised probably went a fair way towards us winning the cup.
There are elections coming up at some point this year (not sure when) so my guess is that there will be many changes.
GGTTH
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07-02-2018 07:05 PM #17This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Thank you for your kind words and support.
We know we have not always got things right all of the time and that mistakes have been made. We are doing our best to get better.
Please note that the donate page on our web site is fully functional and that the proposition remains extremely simple. If you can spare an extra £10 per month why not help Neil to keep improving our team ?
http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/donate.html
HSL
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08-02-2018 01:29 PM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We couldn't agree more and as you can see from our note below ( item 4 ) we just want to get as much additional money into our playing squad as possible, long term.
Can we also point out that no one is suggesting that supporters should donate all of their shares, far from it. We would suggest that any supporter who is minded to donate shares should retain some to allow them to continue to attend the Club AGM and keep their Share Certificate on the wall and pass it on when they pass on.. Many supporters hold 5000 shares and some of our donations involved the supporter retaining 1000 shares and donating 4000. Hope the note below better explains our position :
"We are often asked by both existing Members and prospective Members what is the best way to invest in Hibs – buy shares directly or through HSL ?
Well the first and most obvious thing to say is not to consider any contribution as an “investment” in the normal sense of the word. This is essentially a donation to provide additional financial support to your Club. Having said this, we make no apology for pointing any supporter with a spare £225 firmly in the direction of HSL, and here is why :
- Proof of Ownership
In both cases, supporters will be given a Certificate with their own name on it. A Share Certificate and a Membership Certificate are legal equivalents. When joining HSL with £225 a member will own a part of their Club in the same sense as a fellow supporter acquiring £225 worth of shares. An HSL Member is not in any sense an inferior owner. They have slightly different ownership rights but they are both owners. And in both cases supporters can pass on their part ownership of the Club to their family. HSL Members proudly display their Ownership Certificate on their walls at home or office or work place.
- Voting Rights/Democracy
For many supporters, one of the reasons for becoming financially involved with their Club is to have some sort of say or influence in how their Club is run. A fundamental principle of HSL is our belief that every single supporter should have an equal voice. No matter who you are, your opinion is just as important as any other supporter. This means that when we have matters that we are required to vote upon each member has one vote. One member who has contributed £1000 cannot overrule the votes of four other members who have each contributed £225.
This was the very principles on which our great Club was established. More able members of the Community were able to assist those who were less able. Supporters buying shares however must be aware that one individual wealthy supporter who has many more shares can overrule the will of hundreds of other supporters, especially those who have bought the minimum of £200.
- Supporter Representation
Apart from those occasions that require formal voting, the ongoing running of the Club falls to the Board of Directors. HSL has an exclusive formal agreement with the Club that entitles HSL to appoint a Director to the Board on a permanent basis once our shareholding and donations have reached a certain level. This means that there is a formal process for introducing the views of many ordinary Hibs fans. Supporters buying individual shares do not have this legal entitlement.
- Accessible to All
The reality of a Football Club operating in the environment that we do is that we all have a responsibility for our Club. We cannot for ever look towards an individual to financially support our Club. HSL gives a realistic prospect to all fans to share this responsibility by offering the facility to pay a small amount each month. Not many supporters actually have a spare £200 which means that direct Shareholding is limited to the more affluent supporters. HSL gives all supporters the chance to own part of their Club and as stated earlier, owning it on an equal basis with our fellow supporters.
- Loss of Voting Rights
One of the principle benefits of HSL is the certainty that none of our voting rights will ever be wasted. Whatever ownership stake we end up with 10%, 25% or 35% our entire voting block will always be exercised. This means that if we owned 26% of our Club and a contentious issue arose, even if only 1800 Members out of a 2000 Membership voted, our 26% voting rights would still be exercised. For those supporters owning, in the same example, the remaining 25% of the Club it is very unlikely that every single shareholder will cast a vote ( many have died, or have been passed on to those who don’t have an interest).
These are all the reasons why it feels great to be a part of HSL and an owner of our Club."
HSL
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08-02-2018 07:50 PM #19This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
However the part you've quoted is poorly worded as it implies that my HSL membership is the equivalent of my own shareholding when it isn't.
HSL enables me to part of a much bigger shareholding but I have no real say in how that shareholding votes because I am only one small voice amongst hundreds. It doesn't make me an owner of any part of Hibs but it does make me part of a supporter's collective providing funds to the club which is exactly what I signed up for.
My own shareholding may be only one small voice amongst hundreds but crucially it is still my own voice and a direct holding in the club.Mature, sensible signature required for responsible position. Good prospects for the right candidate. Apply within.
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08-02-2018 08:18 PM #20This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Thank you for your comments, I'm sorry if you feel this is poorly worded, I can assure you there is no intention to mislead.
As you know, HFC Holdings is the principal owner of Hibernian Football Club Ltd. HFC Holdings is 90% owned by Sir Tom Farmer and 10% Rod Petrie.
This does not stop everyone from recognising that Hibs are owned by Sir Tom and Rod. It is not at all uncommon for ownership to be held like this.
There is however a significant difference. Our Members own HSL and HSL now owns almost 14 % of Hibs. What should be noted is that unlike other similar situations HSL can't own anything else. It is exclusive ownership of Hibs. Many of our Members do not want to hold their ownership stake through the Shareholder method as they like the fact that all of our Members are equal. Our voices are all equal. You may be one Member among 1700 but it needs two Members to outvote you. You and every other small shareholder can have you voice cancelled out by one wealthy supporter. They like the collective strength. Wealthy contributors have the same voice as someone who can only manage £5 per month.
I am simply trying to highlight that many people do not feel it is an inferior method of owning Hibs, it is simply their method of choice.
Likewise, we fully recognise that others may prefer the Shareholding method.
I hope this helps.
HSL
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08-02-2018 10:40 PM #21
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I'm a HSL contributor and obviously take an interest in its progress. I'm a bit confused, while reading through this thread when HSL states it has 1300 members then later states it has 1700 members. I know both figures are pretty modest but the latter is of course more encouraging. So which is the true figure?
Last edited by Criswell; 08-02-2018 at 10:57 PM.
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09-02-2018 08:09 AM #22
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You are confusing me, can't see anywhere that quotes 1300 members.
(if I am wrong then fair do's)
HSLOfficial
Can we have an update to the figures that actually matter. Would be good to clear up a lot of this kind of nonsense..
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09-02-2018 11:28 AM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
You quote 1700 members so if 851 members vote one way and 849 the opposite way you vote all of the HSL shares with the 851. You only have a voice that is listened to if you vote with the majority. Is that right or fair? If HSL were listening to all of their members then 50.5% of the shares HSL own should be voted with the majority and 49.5% with the others. It is of course highly unlikely that every member would vote and if HSL used those non votes with the majority it would just about be acceptable but not using the "shares" of someone who said no and voting yes.
Only my opinion of course, but one formed through many years experience of working with companies in relation to and at their AGM's.
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09-02-2018 01:05 PM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-02-2018 09:30 PM #25
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This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteLast edited by Criswell; 09-02-2018 at 09:35 PM.
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10-02-2018 04:26 PM #26This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Allow us to clarify. The 1300 is historical, at that point in time we had reached the 1300 mark but we have continued to grow to just over 1700. We know the web site is outdated but are working right now on the new one. Our ownership stake is now around 14%. We are past the half way mark of our target of 26%.
HSL
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10-02-2018 04:41 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Thank you for your view, we know we have discussed this before. There isn't a right or wrong answer here however can we perhaps share some thoughts on this :
Some would say that this is democracy in action. The simple majority carries the day. Prior to launch we considered this issue and came to the view that the idea that you prefer, which is essentially proportional representation, was more suited to political situations where decisions are being made constantly over a period of time. Some States choose voting methods which will deliberately produce a coalition to ensure that both left and right views can be heard over the course of a government. In our scenario, a social collective, where there is no real expectation of many major decisions to be made the view held was that simple democracy was the best way. We also felt it was very highly unlikely that we would ever have a vote that would split supporters down the middle. Imagine who the vote would go on a proposal to sell Easter Road ?
What is important of course id that we have made clear in our articles that this is how things operate and therefore Supporters can make a decision with this in mind.
HSL
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10-02-2018 04:44 PM #28This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Just read your post and we think we have just given more or less the same response. Great minds think alike !
HSL
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10-02-2018 05:35 PM #29This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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10-02-2018 06:08 PM #30This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We could debate this for ever, as I said there isn't a right or wrong answer. The political situation was the only comparable I could think of in terms of your preferred method. We also took our steer from Supporters Direct Scotland who also recommended this approach. The first vote our Members will be asked to take is just coming up, new Directors, and this will again be done on a simple majority.
HSL
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