1 Derby defeat does not result in a crisis

[Stevie Reid]

Definitely a bit of perspective is needed here. Folk keep banging on about the horrendous run that we're on, the two wins in nine league games is getting trotted out a lot - though the fact that only three defeats have taken place in that time is never mentioned. Incidentally those defeats occurred against the teams that finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the SPL last season.

We are at the end of January and we have only lost five games - and just once away from home. We lost our fifth league game on 16 December. We have won nine league games - we won our ninth league game on 23 December. Out of curiosity I decided to look back on our previous four seasons in the SPL to compare - if people really want to see horrendous runs they should look back at those seasons:

2010 - 11
Lost five league games by 23 October 2010
Won nine league games by 1 March 2011

2011 -12
Lost five league games by 1 October 2011
Only won 8 league games

2012 - 13
Lost five league games by 24 November 2012
Won nine league games by 29 December 2012

2013 - 14
Lost five league games by 3 November 2013
Only won 8 league games

Yes the points total from the last round of fixtures isn't great, and we have some very tough games coming up - but we are nowhere near like being the basket case that many on here would have you believe. We are currently on track for 60 points, which would have seen us 4th last season.

This is the first tough period we've been through for a while, certainly the first under Lennon, and I'm really disappointed at many people's reactions - we don't always have to make a drama out of a crisis. It's funny how many people took offence at Levein's "natural order" comment, yet there are folk on here who will have you believe that we're never more than a couple of results away from disaster, that crisis is our default setting, and make predictions of our demise very regularly.

Yes, we need to start picking up more points in this round of fixtures, but we're five points clear in 4th and are closer to Celtic at the top than we are to Ross County at the bottom. Obviously people are entitled to ask questions when things are not going so well, that's what discussion boards are all about - it's the catastrophising that does my head in.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Definitely a bit of perspective is needed here. Folk keep banging on about the horrendous run that we're on, the two wins in nine league games is getting trotted out a lot - though the fact that only three defeats have taken place in that time is never mentioned. Incidentally those defeats occurred against the teams that finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th in the SPL last season.

We are at the end of January and we have only lost five games - and just once away from home. We lost our fifth league game on 16 December. We have won nine league games - we won our ninth league game on 23 December. Out of curiosity I decided to look back on our previous four seasons in the SPL to compare - if people really want to see horrendous runs they should look back at those seasons:

2010 - 11
Lost five league games by 23 October 2010
Won nine league games by 1 March 2011

2011 -12
Lost five league games by 1 October 2011
Only won 8 league games

2012 - 13
Lost five league games by 24 November 2012
Won nine league games by 29 December 2012

2013 - 14
Lost five league games by 3 November 2013
Only won 8 league games

Yes the points total from the last round of fixtures isn't great, and we have some very tough games coming up - but we are nowhere near like being the basket case that many on here would have you believe. We are currently on track for 60 points, which would have seen us 4th last season.

This is the first tough period we've been through for a while, certainly the first under Lennon, and I'm really disappointed at many people's reactions - we don't always have to make a drama out of a crisis. It's funny how many people took offence at Levein's "natural order" comment, yet there are folk on here who will have you believe that we're never more than a couple of results away from disaster, that crisis is our default setting, and make predictions of our demise very regularly.

Yes, we need to start picking up more points in this round of fixtures, but we're five points clear in 4th and are closer to Celtic at the top than we are to Ross County at the bottom. Obviously people are entitled to ask questions when things are not going so well, that's what discussion boards are all about - it's the catastrophising that does my head in.

I agree with all of this Stevie, with the caveat that it cant be denied we could be picking up more points from games we dominate and its something we need to rectify. The only thing about the 'natural order' comment which has made it 'a thing' this time is the source of the comment.

As fan banter it can be dismissed .... When it comes from the club itself that's different. It was nothing short of an arrogant dismissal of our club and our players from another club and that's something we cant and shouldn't tolerate ... there are times its right to take offence and this is one of them. Everybody at Easter Road should be champing at the bit for the 10th of March to come around. The best way to get ready is to give everything in the fixtures leading up to it.

[Stevie Reid]

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I agree with all of this Stevie, with the caveat that it cant be denied we could be picking up more points from games we dominate and its something we need to rectify. The only thing about the 'natural order' comment which has made it 'a thing' this time is the source of the comment.

As fan banter it can be dismissed .... When it comes from the club itself that's different. It was nothing short of an arrogant dismissal of our club and our players from another club and that's something we cant and shouldn't tolerate ... there are times its right to take offence and this is one of them. Everybody at Easter Road should be champing at the bit for the 10th of March to come around. The best way to get ready is to give everything in the fixtures leading up to it.

I don't disagree with any of that, Levein has provided us even more motivation for next time round - and Lennon alluded to that himself.

My point, possibly not articulated very well, was that some of our own fans are just as disrespectful towards Lennon as Levein was. And you're correct, anyone with an ounce of humility would never make such comments - but then it is Levein that we're talking about.

[Hermit Crab]

Losing the derby is not a crisis in itself. The fact we have only 2 win in the last 10 is not a crisis either, it is however worrying form. We are not scoring goals which is a big concern. 5 games in the next 2 and a bit weeks, if we come out of these games still 2 wins from 15 games then theres a crisis and that is very much manager sacking form. I'm not saying NL should be sacked, just pointing out that its a results based business and that could be enough for the board. Top 6 is the absolute minimum requirement for us this season, if we continue the way we are going we wont even make that!

[Stevie Reid]

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Losing the derby is not a crisis in itself. The fact we have only 2 win in the last 10 is not a crisis either, it is however worrying form. We are not scoring goals which is a big concern. 5 games in the next 2 and a bit weeks, if we come out of these games still 2 wins from 15 games then theres a crisis and that is very much manager sacking form. I'm not saying NL should be sacked, just pointing out that its a results based business and that could be enough for the board. Top 6 is the absolute minimum requirement for us this season, if we continue the way we are going we wont even make that!

I very much doubt that the board are even remotely thinking of removing Lennon as manager, nor would be in the scenario that you've just outlined.

By the way, if you want a really scary stat (and I agree that we don't score enough btw) - we've already scored as many goals as we did the season we went down.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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I very much doubt that the board are even remotely thinking of removing Lennon as manager, nor would be in the scenario that you've just outlined.

By the way, if you want a really scary stat (and I agree that we don't score enough btw) - we've already scored as many goals as we did the season we went down.

Youre on fire with your stats today Stevie - not got work to do...?!

Agree with what you say - weve had some lickings at tynie in the not too distant past, that game on sunday was a slog fest between two very even teams separated by one goal and one terrible refereeing decision over two games at tynie.

Also, its nothing new from Hearts, remember anderton and his docksiders comment, and of course mercer just plain trying to out us out of business.

I dont deny that hearts have a better derby record than us, but i really do think that as a club, they know that they should be a much bigger club than us - theyve had every advantage over the decades, and yet here they are, still battling away with us, the outsider club. Anyone who has to remind thenselves of how big and successful they are, probably isnt.

Levein will go down in history as the worst Scotland manager ever, as a player who won nothing, amd was part of a sqaud that committed the biggest choking job in modern scottish fitba history, and who has so far won nothing as a manager.

Added to the fact, that his managerial reputatiob is defensive, negative and overly physical. And he failed massively in England (ironically at a club in which lennon was a key part of a successful team).

The man, amd the club, are the epitome of underachievers.

Yes they habe won more cups than us. But we habe won the same number of league titles, and hibs are more recent. We hold the attendancd records for biggest crowd, and highest average crowd, and have achieved far more in Europe than they ever will. And in our lifetime, weve won the same number of cups.

All while fighting that pernicious establishment, conquering enormous prejudice, and overcoming social, religious and ethnic division. They should be so much bigger amd better than us, and it kills them they arent. So **** them.

Agree also about some perspective being needed - we are doing ok, bit could be better - if anhone thinks lennon doesnt know that, they are off their heads. Can he fix it? I think he probably can.

[Not In The Know]

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Youre on fire with your stats today Stevie - not got work to do...?!

Agree with what you say - weve had some lickings at tynie in the not too distant past, that game on sunday was a slog fest between two very even teams separated by one goal and one terrible refereeing decision over two games at tynie.

Also, its nothing new from Hearts, remember anderton and his docksiders comment, and of course mercer just plain trying to out us out of business.

I dont deny that hearts have a better derby record than us, but i really do think that as a club, they know that they should be a much bigger club than us - theyve had every advantage over the decades, and yet here they are, still battling away with us, the outsider club. Anyone who has to remind thenselves of how big and successful they are, probably isnt.

Levein will go down in history as the worst Scotland manager ever, as a player who won nothing, amd was part of a sqaud that committed the biggest choking job in modern scottish fitba history, and who has so far won nothing as a manager.

Added to the fact, that his managerial reputatiob is defensive, negative and overly physical. And he failed massively in England (ironically at a club in which lennon was a key part of a successful team).

The man, amd the club, are the epitome of underachievers.

Yes they habe won more cups than us. But we habe won the same number of league titles, and hibs are more recent. We hold the attendancd records for biggest crowd, and highest average crowd, and have achieved far more in Europe than they ever will. And in our lifetime, weve won the same number of cups.

All while fighting that pernicious establishment, conquering enormous prejudice, and overcoming social, religious and ethnic division. They should be so much bigger amd better than us, and it kills them they arent.

Steady on...

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Steady on...

Maybe an exaggeration! But given historical starting point amd what we have had to contend with versus them, they should be. That they aren't is where this insecurity comes from.

[stantonhibby]

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Youre on fire with your stats today Stevie - not got work to do...?!

Agree with what you say - weve had some lickings at tynie in the not too distant past, that game on sunday was a slog fest between two very even teams separated by one goal and one terrible refereeing decision over two games at tynie.

Also, its nothing new from Hearts, remember anderton and his docksiders comment, and of course mercer just plain trying to out us out of business.

I dont deny that hearts have a better derby record than us, but i really do think that as a club, they know that they should be a much bigger club than us - theyve had every advantage over the decades, and yet here they are, still battling away with us, the outsider club. Anyone who has to remind thenselves of how big and successful they are, probably isnt.

Levein will go down in history as the worst Scotland manager ever, as a player who won nothing, amd was part of a sqaud that committed the biggest choking job in modern scottish fitba history, and who has so far won nothing as a manager.

Added to the fact, that his managerial reputatiob is defensive, negative and overly physical. And he failed massively in England (ironically at a club in which lennon was a key part of a successful team).

The man, amd the club, are the epitome of underachievers.

Yes they habe won more cups than us. But we habe won the same number of league titles, and hibs are more recent. We hold the attendancd records for biggest crowd, and highest average crowd, and have achieved far more in Europe than they ever will. And in our lifetime, weve won the same number of cups.

All while fighting that pernicious establishment, conquering enormous prejudice, and overcoming social, religious and ethnic division. They should be so much bigger amd better than us, and it kills them they arent. So **** them.

Agree also about some perspective being needed - we are doing ok, bit could be better - if anhone thinks lennon doesnt know that, they are off their heads. Can he fix it? I think he probably can.

Think there league titles are more recent (59-60) unless you're counting our championship win last season !

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Think there league titles are more recent (59-60) unless you're counting our championship win last season !

I mean that three of our four have come since fhe war, but i believe two of their four.came before ww1 - maybe should jabe reworded as one more, more recently / in the postwar era etc

[stantonhibby]

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I mean that three of our four have come since fhe war, but i believe two of their four.came before ww1 - maybe should jabe reworded as one more, more recently / in the postwar era etc

Ah ok....i get you.

[eastcoasthibby]

Its not a crisis but a couple more poor results and it will be, there are a number of things that just aren't happening every game these days .... And its down to the manager and players to fix, the manager to get the team prepared and the right selections. The players to switch on and get themselves ready to deliver on the pitch, whether working hard in training, mentally being on it, working hard and doing their jobs on match days.
From what I have watched all season we have been very hot and cold during games, not concentrating whether it be a keeper, defender, midfielder or forward, they all switch off during games or make bad decisions and the consequences are loss of a goal or a good missed opportunity ... Our inconsistency and lack of focus for 90 minutes or however long on the park is a real weakness.
We have good players, some think they are better than they are, some don't apply themselves properly and others have limited ability, whatever applies the right attitude and desire to play well should always bee there, you see it in almost every team we play, bar none, their application is always there, I can honestly say that in almost every game I question some of our players application and want to give all they can and that's not singling anyone out.
My concerns exist around all of this and perhaps the anger/frustration about Sunday is that a lot of the players showed these features in that game, why ? And the bigger question is why can't they apply themselves in every game ...I know some do and its possible to have off days, but our levels of inconsistency seems beyond what would seem understandable. It raises the question of why are our players like this, and to be fair I think that possibly 4-5 give their all every time they play, the others I think don't ... Only they will know why at the time !!
It also may be NL in his team selection and training, shot shy team, short corners, can't cross a ball, freekicks poor, matching runs,finishing, defenders switching off, chopping and changing the team structure, ..I'll leave it there ..
While this all seems pretty negative, we have a squad of players with good quality and ability, but we can't put it together on a pitch for any length of time, its a half, 20 minutes, or some other length of time but never a full game, less chance being 2,3,4 games on the bounce. (That I can remember)
Finally, how does the way certain players behave, what they get away with, their professionalism, commitment, impact on the other players ?
if its not sorted over the next 3-4 games then it will be a real slide and problem,if unchecked a crisis
, so an interesting time in the very near future. Which needs the whole lot of the coaching, management and players to get it sorted out, forget about blaming each other and take responsibility for what they can do.
As fans we need to do the same !!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Correct Not winning in 9 is a crisis particularly for Hearts as it’s their benchmark.

[147lothian]

I'm as gutted as anyone about the result on Sunday but to call to call it a crisis is OTT, a scrappy game on a tattie field that could have gone either way, gets settled in the end with a very scrappy goal, this doesn't make a crisis.

A better benchmark of how we are doing in our first season back in the spl is our league position were sitting 4th, Lennon is very good manager for me who is doing a good job with what's available to him, a legitimate question can be asked as to why he's not been given more funds given our attendances this season and last, im sure he had other target signings in mind, I however have full faith in NL to make the most of what's available to him, the team is going through a transition phase and it might well take a bit of time for the team to settle so patience is required but I for one have faith in the way the club is currently being run