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Thread: Plastic

  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Plastic

    Sorry for yet another thread from me, but this really is tragic.

    https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/vid...5953914506108/


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    That's disgusting. 😞

    Plastic use is definitely an area that needs looked at both in terms of retailers packaging and consumers recycling.
    Mon the Hibs.

  4. #3
    It's sad.

    However whilst it needs an international consensus to undertake a big clean up and put measures in place to prevent a repeat it is also a situation the public can directly influence as consumers.

    Stop buying fruit and veg with needless additional packaging, stop buying takeaway coffee in non recyclable cups and invest in a reusable one that all the major coffee chains will fill for you, stop buying shower gels with micro plastics in them, stop buying bottled water in plastic bottles and so on. If people take a stand and stop buying the stuff then producers will stop using it as soon as it effects their bottom line.

    Talking to a lot of people after the Attenborough documentary it seemed they were all horrified for 5 minutes and 'wanted something done' but typically they all wanted someone else to do it exemplified by the moaners Diet Coke bottles going straight in the bin at lumchtime when a recycling option was about 3 metres away.

  5. #4
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    On a connected theme, I was pleasantly surprised at how much the "plastic-bag tax" affected people's habits.

    It is only 5p a bag, yet it has had a profound effect on how people manage their shopping. The consequent effect on the environment has to be positive.

    With that in mind, a similar "plastic tax" might have similar consequences, no?

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    It's sad.

    However whilst it needs an international consensus to undertake a big clean up and put measures in place to prevent a repeat it is also a situation the public can directly influence as consumers.

    Stop buying fruit and veg with needless additional packaging, stop buying takeaway coffee in non recyclable cups and invest in a reusable one that all the major coffee chains will fill for you, stop buying shower gels with micro plastics in them, stop buying bottled water in plastic bottles and so on. If people take a stand and stop buying the stuff then producers will stop using it as soon as it effects their bottom line.

    Talking to a lot of people after the Attenborough documentary it seemed they were all horrified for 5 minutes and 'wanted something done' but typically they all wanted someone else to do it exemplified by the moaners Diet Coke bottles going straight in the bin at lumchtime when a recycling option was about 3 metres away.
    Totally agree, so many people moan about it but aren't willing to change their habits in a minimal way.

    I was fortunate to go down to Ecuador this year to some of the cloud forests and out to the Galapagos and it really has opened my eyes with just how much crap we waste and seeing how the locals genuinely care about where they stay does make me feel that there is a bit of hope out there for us all if we put our minds to it.

    In a lot of the shops/hotels they didn't sell plastic bottles and there were water stations where you would re-fill your bottle either for free or a minimal charge - such a simple thing that makes such a difference
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  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    When we see these things on tv I always wonder where in the world itís coming from. In this country does any of our waste end up in the sea? I always recycle all my household plastics, and Iím sure lots of other people also recycle. Is it just a case of the accumulation of years of littering, or is it that certain countries are dumping waste in the sea?

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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    When we see these things on tv I always wonder where in the world itís coming from. In this country does any of our waste end up in the sea? I always recycle all my household plastics, and Iím sure lots of other people also recycle. Is it just a case of the accumulation of years of littering, or is it that certain countries are dumping waste in the sea?
    I suspect a lot of it comes from the less developed countries, and china. Im sure we do our fair share too though.

    Agree with others on the thread, something needs to be done and i have been trying to be a lot more discerning with my xhoices as a consumer since watching that.

    It is easy to feel powerless when faced with such a big problem, and of course it woyld need some kind of inter governmental action, but it is also an area where we as consumers can make a big difference.

    Also agree totally about the plastic bag tax, surely one of the best policy interventions we have seen from government in terms of changing behaviour completely - a good example of nudge theory in action?

  9. #8
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    I arrived in Germany back in 1984. Even back then the West Germans recycled packaging and plastics because it was known that plastic would become a major problem due to its non biodegradable properties. Unlike the UK, the Green Party are long established and have an impact on the policy making of the big 2 parties, it's about time the UK woke up to the environmental disaster that's just around the corner. Hopefully it's not too little too late.

  10. #9
    It's truly horrific.

    There was something on the other week showed millions of microbeads on Gullane beach. The birds are eating them because they look like fish eggs etc. We think we are not too bad but we put a lot of **** in here too.

    Admittedly I don't know where this is from but look how minging it is.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=no...Itx7xWdw5wrYYM


    Terrible

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=north+atlantic+gyre+plastic&client=ms-android-orange-gb&prmd=ismvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKE wjk9ceex7zYAhVlJsAKHQyVCp8Q_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=51 1#imgrc=0GfInQicbzB

    Sorry 2nd link not working, on phone.
    Last edited by beensaidbefore; 03-01-2018 at 06:53 PM.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    When we see these things on tv I always wonder where in the world itís coming from. In this country does any of our waste end up in the sea? I always recycle all my household plastics, and Iím sure lots of other people also recycle. Is it just a case of the accumulation of years of littering, or is it that certain countries are dumping waste in the sea?
    The trouble with plastics recycling is China. To recycle plastic there needs to be a market for recycled plastic. There is not a huge market for recycled plastic as it is relatively expensive compared to the cheap fresh plastic coming out of China. A percentage of the plastic you are Ďrecyclingí will end up in landfill.

  12. #11
    Watched a programme on sky about whales that had beached or got into trouble post-mortem revealed the intestines full of plastic bags.

    Really sad.

  13. #12
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patch1875 View Post
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    Watched a programme on sky about whales that had beached or got into trouble post-mortem revealed the intestines full of plastic bags.

    Really sad.
    And scary, we're eating plastic too.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by overdrive View Post
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    The trouble with plastics recycling is China. To recycle plastic there needs to be a market for recycled plastic. There is not a huge market for recycled plastic as it is relatively expensive compared to the cheap fresh plastic coming out of China. A percentage of the plastic you are Ďrecyclingí will end up in landfill.
    https://youtu.be/cHWYoDKYnQo

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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wembley67 View Post
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    Totally agree, so many people moan about it but aren't willing to change their habits in a minimal way.

    I was fortunate to go down to Ecuador this year to some of the cloud forests and out to the Galapagos and it really has opened my eyes with just how much crap we waste and seeing how the locals genuinely care about where they stay does make me feel that there is a bit of hope out there for us all if we put our minds to it.

    In a lot of the shops/hotels they didn't sell plastic bottles and there were water stations where you would re-fill your bottle either for free or a minimal charge - such a simple thing that makes such a difference
    How this last point hasn't practically become law by now escapes me. Or rather it doesn't because …vian etc wouldn't be having it.

  16. #15
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by overdrive View Post
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    The trouble with plastics recycling is China. To recycle plastic there needs to be a market for recycled plastic. There is not a huge market for recycled plastic as it is relatively expensive compared to the cheap fresh plastic coming out of China. A percentage of the plastic you are Ďrecyclingí will end up in landfill.
    Blaming everything on the Chinese is convenient but it also becomes an excuse not to take some personal responsibility for individual behaviour. There are many things I can do as an individual (especially after the plastic rubbish fest that was Christmas for three kids in my household) or us as a country, (how much of the plastic wrapped things you buy from supermarkets actually needs to be plastic wrapped?), we need to make changes ourselves.

    Otherwise no-one will be eating stuff out of the sea in ten years.
    Last edited by hibsbollah; 05-01-2018 at 11:17 AM.

  17. #16
    Coaching Staff Pete's Avatar
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    I think the first change we can make ourselves is actually recycling plastic properly.

    I donít know about Edinburgh but in Fife, a few years ago we were given a bin specifically for cans and plastics. Instructions were given about what type of plastic goes in it and what we should do to it beforehand. People forget over time and wrong types get put in the bin and stuff isnít washed and squashed.

    Maybe itís time for councils to really make people aware of the correct procedures and the impact of not doing it properly. Warnings, fines and bins being left unemptied should be part of a more forceful approach.

    Only when itís in our consciousness and weíre fully aware of our actions can we collectively make choices that force the manufacturers to make changes. Itís sad that money from ďconsumersĒ is the only thing that will make them change because without a planet to host them, all the man-made bull**** like markets, finance, the economy and growth will count for absolutely nothing.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    I think the first change we can make ourselves is actually recycling plastic properly.

    I donít know about Edinburgh but in Fife, a few years ago we were given a bin specifically for cans and plastics. Instructions were given about what type of plastic goes in it and what we should do to it beforehand. People forget over time and wrong types get put in the bin and stuff isnít washed and squashed.

    Maybe itís time for councils to really make people aware of the correct procedures and the impact of not doing it properly. Warnings, fines and bins being left unemptied should be part of a more forceful approach.

    Only when itís in our consciousness and weíre fully aware of our actions can we collectively make choices that force the manufacturers to make changes. Itís sad that money from ďconsumersĒ is the only thing that will make them change because without a planet to host them, all the man-made bull**** like markets, finance, the economy and growth will count for absolutely nothing.
    I concur with your thoughts but if you are wanting to rely on millions of individuals 'doing the right thing' then it's doomed to fail.

    The problem needs tackled at source. Packing needs to be fully and easily recyclable or there should be a levy paid by the purveyor to account for the environmental damage, the managing and sorting of recycling needs to be dramatically improved (shipping it all off to China was never the answer) etc etc

    I said recently on another thread that I had stopped buying overly packaged items in the supermarket so the consumer can defo play a role but that should be the end point not the starting point.

    On the flip side the world really does seem to be finally starting to waken up to such issues. Even Unilever has introduced reduction targets and is aiming to have 100% recyclable plastic packaging by 2025. I would suggest governments and supra governmental organisations should be 'encouraging' these types of companies to go further and faster but the the momentum does seem to be building.

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    I notice a few references to the "plastic bag charge", so to clarify....

    As a small trader at craft events I use clear polythene bags which do not require the payment of the 'Single Use Bag Charge' but for some items I use paper carrier bags with handles which DO require the payment of the 'Single Use Bag Charge'

    It is not what the bags are made of but that they are above a certain size and have handles that triggers the payment.

    I don't pass on the charge but have paid the charge myself on the quantity of paper carrier bags I purchased to the Scottish Wildlife Trust.
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  20. #19
    Coaching Staff Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    I concur with your thoughts but if you are wanting to rely on millions of individuals 'doing the right thing' then it's doomed to fail.

    The problem needs tackled at source. Packing needs to be fully and easily recyclable or there should be a levy paid by the purveyor to account for the environmental damage, the managing and sorting of recycling needs to be dramatically improved (shipping it all off to China was never the answer) etc etc

    I said recently on another thread that I had stopped buying overly packaged items in the supermarket so the consumer can defo play a role but that should be the end point not the starting point.

    On the flip side the world really does seem to be finally starting to waken up to such issues. Even Unilever has introduced reduction targets and is aiming to have 100% recyclable plastic packaging by 2025. I would suggest governments and supra governmental organisations should be 'encouraging' these types of companies to go further and faster but the the momentum does seem to be building.
    To be honest, such is the magnitude of the problem, it probably needs tackled immediately from every angle. Itís amazing how certain types of ďencouragementĒ can influence the way people behave so as much of that as possible would be for the greater good, even though it might mean some short term pain for people.

    Some of the images are horrible and I hope that people now wake up permanently. Itís good that companies are taking action but as far as the general population is concerned, it canít be a five minute issue thatís replaced by something more interesting in a few months.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    I notice a few references to the "plastic bag charge", so to clarify....

    As a small trader at craft events I use clear polythene bags which do not require the payment of the 'Single Use Bag Charge' but for some items I use paper carrier bags with handles which DO require the payment of the 'Single Use Bag Charge'

    It is not what the bags are made of but that they are above a certain size and have handles that triggers the payment.

    I don't pass on the charge but have paid the charge myself on the quantity of paper carrier bags I purchased to the Scottish Wildlife Trust.
    You would be in the position to know better than I am, but I was pretty sure paper bags weren't to be charged? (Edit: but I'm wrong on that front in Scotland, I think that might be the case in England though)

    I also thought the legal part was that you had to pass the 5p fee on to the customer, and not absorb it - although I don't think any of it counts for a small craft trader at a market like yourself.
    Last edited by danhibees1875; 05-01-2018 at 01:10 PM.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    To be honest, such is the magnitude of the problem, it probably needs tackled immediately from every angle. Itís amazing how certain types of ďencouragementĒ can influence the way people behave so as much of that as possible would be for the greater good, even though it might mean some short term pain for people.

    Some of the images are horrible and I hope that people now wake up permanently. Itís good that companies are taking action but as far as the general population is concerned, it canít be a five minute issue thatís replaced by something more interesting in a few months.
    It is starting to feel a bit like that CFC and save the whale moment though, where as i remember it, awareness raising among the public, govt and company action all came pretty swiftly and, as far as i know, pretty successfully.

    It would be yet another fittig legacy of Attenborough if his programme was one of the main catalysts for change.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    To be honest, such is the magnitude of the problem, it probably needs tackled immediately from every angle. Itís amazing how certain types of ďencouragementĒ can influence the way people behave so as much of that as possible would be for the greater good, even though it might mean some short term pain for people.

    Some of the images are horrible and I hope that people now wake up permanently. Itís good that companies are taking action but as far as the general population is concerned, it canít be a five minute issue thatís replaced by something more interesting in a few months.
    I agree. I didnít recycle until the council stopped weekly bin collections. Now I have a recycle bin, a general waste bin and a small blue box for glass.
    Sometimes it needs the authorityís to give people a nudge in the right direction.

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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I agree. I didnít recycle until the council stopped weekly bin collections. Now I have a recycle bin, a general waste bin and a small blue box for glass.
    Sometimes it needs the authorityís to give people a nudge in the right direction.
    I agree, although I have a general waste bin a recycling bin and 2 green waste bins, unfortunately my authority is going to charge £25 a year for each green waste bin from next year which will discourage the use of green waste bins and increase the general landfill waste or fly-tipping (IMHO)
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    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    I think the first change we can make ourselves is actually recycling plastic properly.

    I donít know about Edinburgh but in Fife, a few years ago we were given a bin specifically for cans and plastics. Instructions were given about what type of plastic goes in it and what we should do to it beforehand. People forget over time and wrong types get put in the bin and stuff isnít washed and squashed.

    Maybe itís time for councils to really make people aware of the correct procedures and the impact of not doing it properly. Warnings, fines and bins being left unemptied should be part of a more forceful approach.
    There lies one of the problems. There should be a uniform national Ďprocedureí for waste collection. The differences between each authority causes a lot of confusion.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by overdrive View Post
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    There lies one of the problems. There should be a uniform national Ďprocedureí for waste collection. The differences between each authority causes a lot of confusion.
    Thatís right. I researched this when I was doing an eco-village 18 years ago and raised this issue then.

    Things havenít changed theyíve just got more embedded in their bad practice

  27. #26
    Black plastic containers that supermarket ready meals come in - green bin or grey bin? Council says 'hard' plastics are green but how hard is hard?

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
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    Straying off-topic, does everybody recycle their food waste? We donít as my wife thinks itís really unhygienic and encourages vermin. I donít really get her point as I donít see the difference between the food waste being in the residual waste bin and being in a specific food waste bin. It is still there! She wonít budge though. It used to make me feel guilty (it still does but to a lesser extent) as a previous job I had was connected to the waste/recycling industry and it seemed somewhat hypocritical.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by overdrive View Post
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    Straying off-topic, does everybody recycle their food waste? We donít as my wife thinks itís really unhygienic and encourages vermin. I donít really get her point as I donít see the difference between the food waste being in the residual waste bin and being in a specific food waste bin. It is still there! She wonít budge though. It used to make me feel guilty (it still does but to a lesser extent) as a previous job I had was connected to the waste/recycling industry and it seemed somewhat hypocritical.
    I recycle anything biodegradable that hasn't been cooked in my composter. Anything that has been cooked stinks and attracts vermin. When I lived in Berlin we used to have a bio rubbish bin that was collected once a fortnight and stank to high heaven in the summer, now living in the countryside just outside and it just gets chucked in with the rest waste.

    We get various different rubbish collections every month and have a green bin for waste, blue for paper, yellow for recyclables, green bags for garden rubbish and bulk rubbish like furniture and electrical goods are picked up from outside the house around once a month. There's also recycling yards all over the place where you can bring almost any kind of waste and you pay nothing except for toxic waste like paint and chemicals. The hardest thing to get rid of over here is building rubbish, especially porporcelain and plaster board.

  30. #29
    We gave up on the food waste due to it not getting picked up.

    Tried phoning but it was so inconsistent.

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by patch1875 View Post
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    We gave up on the food waste due to it not getting picked up.

    Tried phoning but it was so inconsistent.
    Similar, not getting collected but getting regularly raided by foxes and badgers made it a pain in the erse.
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