Shambles at the turnstiles

[Scouse Hibee]

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Depends on the type of emergency and circumstances, can't think of any other ground where opposing supporters would be put on a collision course with each other, down sets of steps to get through a smaller gate at the bottom together just to get to the street.

Not a problem really, people exiting in an emergency become just that, not battling opposition supporters. Segregation not considered in emergency evacuation procedures and nor should it be.

[Kavinho]

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Not a problem really, people exiting in an emergency become just that, not battling opposition supporters. Segregation not considered in emergency evacuation procedures and nor should it be.

hmmn. Not fully convinced by that.
Whilst it might prove accurate, it might not and you’d only find out once the event had occurred.

So there’s a “risk” that some inter fan “arguments” could lead to delays when exiting in an emergency, which in turn could create a risk of further danger.

Something that should be avoided where possible for the one in a hundred thousand chance, but I Suppose the jambos had little alternative.

The Question is should this have been another one of those council turning a blind eye moments......

[greenginger]

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Depends on the type of emergency and circumstances, can't think of any other ground where opposing supporters would be put on a collision course with each other, down sets of steps to get through a smaller gate at the bottom together just to get to the street.

That narrow exit gate at the end of the exits from north of their new stand and the Roseburn stand is clearly breaking the Green Guide regs for safety at Sportsgrounds.


http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org...reen-guide.pdf

Page 80, 10.2

" Smooth unimpeded flow through the exit route is best achieved by ensuring the exit system does not narrow along its length "

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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That narrow exit gate at the end of the exits from north of their new stand and the Roseburn stand is clearly breaking the Green Guide regs for safety at Sportsgrounds.


http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org...reen-guide.pdf

Page 80, 10.2

" Smooth unimpeded flow through the exit route is best achieved by ensuring the exit system does not narrow along its length "

Correct.

[-Jonesy-]

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Anyone able to provide the best email addresses to write to with complaints?

http://www.scotland.police.uk/contact-us/contact-us-form

[BigKev]

Clearly a shambles last night. Go right to the Health & Safety Executive who can pull up both Hearts and the Council for their negligence.

[Scouse Hibee]

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hmmn. Not fully convinced by that.
Whilst it might prove accurate, it might not and you’d only find out once the event had occurred.

So there’s a “risk” that some inter fan “arguments” could lead to delays when exiting in an emergency, which in turn could create a risk of further danger.

Something that should be avoided where possible for the one in a hundred thousand chance, but I Suppose the jambos had little alternative.

The Question is should this have been another one of those council turning a blind eye moments......

You've answered your own question with your "one in hundred thousand chance".

[Skol]

I was right up the back of the stand and found the journey downstairs quite treacherous. The stairs are not big enough for a human foot and I kept hitting my heel on the bag of the step and was close to stumbling over

[21.05.2016]

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Not a problem really, people exiting in an emergency become just that, not battling opposition supporters. Segregation not considered in emergency evacuation procedures and nor should it be.

It shouldn't be but it is still a risk unfortunalty. Some drunken idiots will use any opportunity to start trouble with rival fans even in some emergency situations. Sad but unfortuantly true.

[Skol]

Is there not a big fence that would keep fans apart ?

That said its still a horrific design as Hearts fans would exit and turn right into a stramash of people who exited to the right of you

Away fans go down treacherous metal steps that are not big enough and with a handrail obscurely set at an angle

[Scouse Hibee]

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It shouldn't be but it is still a risk unfortunalty. Some drunken idiots will use any opportunity to start trouble with rival fans even in some emergency situations. Sad but unfortuantly true.

Sorry I disagree, a real emergency situation very quickly changes folks way of thinking and rivalry is the last thing on your mind as you make your way to percieved safety. Let's not forget that it's only a very small minority in every club including ours that become mindless ****wits at a football match.

[21.05.2016]

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Sorry I disagree, a real emergency situation very quickly changes folks way of thinking and rivalry is the last thing on your mind as you make your way to percieved safety. Let's not forget that it's only a very small minority in every club including ours that become mindless ****wits at a football match.

Hopefully you're right. I've thankfully never been in an emergency situation at a football match and hopefully I never get to find out what its like. I just know that some people, especially if they've had a lot to drink can be very stupid and selfish even in desperate situations.


Tynecastle and Hampden trips often bring out the idiot element of our support as some folk seem to think they can't possibly go unless they are absolutely wasted. Having a good drink before games is fine if you behave but unfortuantly some folk turn into absolute ********s after a few.

[GreenCastle]

You would think they would get the basics right..

Lights
Turnstiles
Seat numbers in the correct order

The seat numbers is a simple fix surely.

I took pictures of the seats - literally 4 random numbers in a row stuck onto the seats in section H.

Shambles / Hoofball of Midlothian living up to its name

[The Hibee Harp]

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It would be good to hear from the support reps on this ? It’s an accident waiting to happen


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This.

Hibs should be raising these issues with Hearts through official channels to ensure there is no repeat going forward. If there any genuine concerns for supporter safety this needs addressed and our reps need to be taking this into our boardroom. I'm not suggesting they haven't or aren't aware but clarification would be good.

[Skol]

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Sorry I disagree, a real emergency situation very quickly changes folks way of thinking and rivalry is the last thing on your mind as you make your way to percieved safety. Let's not forget that it's only a very small minority in every club including ours that become mindless ****wits at a football match.

Anyone who was at the CS Gas game will know that an emergency situation was not initially seen as that. People needed out and this was treated as a pitch invasion. Gates not opened and police horses deployed. And this was just a matter of weeks after Hillsborough

[blackpoolhibs]

A real emergency situation could be fighting and a pitch invasion from the away stand attacking the home support. Letting them all out using the same escape would be like fighting a fire with petrol.

[Kavinho]

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You've answered your own question with your "one in hundred thousand chance".

So you accept there’s a risk then

[staunchhibby]

Just wondering if the fans reps are aware of last nights problems and what there thoughts are.

[Scouse Hibee]

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So you accept there’s a risk then

Of course there's a risk. Surely you realise the importance of likliehood when assessing a risk?
Throwing in scenarios like fighting to come up with an excuse to increase the risk is just silly. The main issue is evacuation of all persons not relating tbem as rival supporters. Evacuation of a stadium is not taken likely and would hardly be instigated becauseof a bit of crowd trouble.

[Mr White]

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Anyone who was at the CS Gas game will know that an emergency situation was not initially seen as that. People needed out and this was treated as a pitch invasion. Gates not opened and police horses deployed. And this was just a matter of weeks after Hillsborough

It was 18 months before Hillsborough but I think you make a good point with the rest of the post.

[kaimendhibs]

That could have turned nasty last night. People having to q before put in a pen thru one set of gates is just not on. If there had been a surge it could have been very dangerous. Place should never have got safety certificate, someone has had a large brown envelope.

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[Skol]

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It was 18 months before Hillsborough but I think you make a good point with the rest of the post.

Wow, that just shows how memory plays tricks on you.

To this day I can still recall vividly the crush against the fencing and I had to use my seven stone weakling teenage body to push back and create enough space to climb out. I was certain that I experienced this in the weeks after Hillsborough, but clearly didnt.

[green day]

Without wishing to allow Hearts any latitude for what was a shambles the other night, I know that Hearts fans have similar complaints when accessing Easter Road - Police kettle them in Albion Road ahead of the turnstiles and let them through in batches to what is a limited number of turnstiles (although still more than their midden).

It should be said that the way Easter Road is built allows for a lot more room for manoeuvre and less chance of crushing - I guess thats what happens when they built on such a small plot.

[Billy Whizz]

I got in the ground just after 7.10 on Wednesday, everything appeared fine.
What sort of time did the chaos start?

[Blaster]

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I got in the ground just after 7.10 on Wednesday, everything appeared fine.
What sort of time did the chaos start?

I got there just after 7.15 and took a good 20 mins to get in

[wookie70]

I got there at 7.20 and the crowds were moving freely. I was waiting for a mate who pitched up at around 7.30 and by that time they had started to kettle fans. The whole situation was badly dealt with but the big problem is the lighting and number of turnstiles. Not sure the Police had too much choice as you couldn't have let everyone through to the turnstile area as that would have made a bad situation worse. There is no way that entrance is safe for a night time game in icy conditions and it is a disaster waiting to happen if there was an emergency.

[lapsedhibee]

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I got there at 7.20 and the crowds were moving freely. I was waiting for a mate who pitched up at around 7.30 and by that time they had started to kettle fans. The whole situation was badly dealt with but the big problem is the lighting and number of turnstiles. Not sure the Police had too much choice as you couldn't have let everyone through to the turnstile area as that would have made a bad situation worse. There is no way that entrance is safe for a night time game in icy conditions and it is a disaster waiting to happen if there was an emergency.

Is there no lighting fitted, or did Potter & Bodge just decide not to turn it on (to save money, keep vermin in their place, etc)?

[bingo70]

Hibs don't need to make a big deal about this but even a wee tweet saying they are "aware of an issue for fans getting in through the turnstiles and are taking this up with Hearts", would be enough to bring attention to what sounds like could have been a serious issue.

[linlithgowhibbie]

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I got there at 7.20 and the crowds were moving freely. I was waiting for a mate who pitched up at around 7.30 and by that time they had started to kettle fans. The whole situation was badly dealt with but the big problem is the lighting and number of turnstiles. Not sure the Police had too much choice as you couldn't have let everyone through to the turnstile area as that would have made a bad situation worse. There is no way that entrance is safe for a night time game in icy conditions and it is a disaster waiting to happen if there was an emergency.

Not sure how it was "Badly dealt with". Are you meaning the police? I thought they handled their side of the problem really well.

I think the crowd/crush would have been harder to control if they had allowed everyone into the "pen" making large individual queues merge into a shoving mass of people.

The problems are as you say with lack of lighting and turnstyles which should have been a planning deartment prerequisite.

PS the police are not happy using their resources to oversea crowds queueing as it is seen as a Hearts problem for them to steward unless police intervention is required for public safety.(ie trouble/fights breaking out)

[wookie70]

The badly dealt with refers to the way the entrance was set up. Dark, not enough stewards at the turnstiles which were almost in darkness and insufficient salt to clear ice. I think if the police are going to kettle fans they could do it in the street before the pen where it was lighter and less slidy. There were as many police as I have ever seen around the entrance and it might have been easier if they were telling fans what was happening. From what I saw the Police allowed the queue to flow freely as long as they could. So many fans arrived at around 7.30 that they had no choice but to use the pen. The issues with the entrance are nearly all Hearts fault. It would be interesting to hear the views of Police. They did their job getting fans in safely and in reasonable time.