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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    As an ex resident of the city every time I come through for a night out I love it. The city centre has improved massively and if the council had not developed the city we would lose thousands of tourists and millions from the citys economy which would mean less jobs of the residents. Edinburgh should be celebrated as a fantastic city to work, rest and play in
    It should also be celebrated because of its diversity.


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    As an ex resident of the city every time I come through for a night out I love it. The city centre has improved massively and if the council had not developed the city we would lose thousands of tourists and millions from the citys economy which would mean less jobs of the residents. Edinburgh should be celebrated as a fantastic city to work, rest and play in
    Well said mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Fair enough, i dont agree thats what the OP meant, but yours is as reasonable a guess as mine.
    I wouldn't definitively say your interpretation is wrong (be nice if the OP could perhaps return and clarify, but this seems to be a grenade into an empty room and walk away job...), but the language of 'swarm' certainly leaves it open to be interpreted the way you have. I interpreted it thusly as he only specifies purchases rather than moving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    I wouldn't definitively say your interpretation is wrong (be nice if the OP could perhaps return and clarify, but this seems to be a grenade into an empty room and walk away job...), but the language of 'swarm' certainly leaves it open to be interpreted the way you have. I interpreted it thusly as he only specifies purchases rather than moving.

    Aren't internet forums fun?
    Subconsciously i think that word is what swayed my interpretation and made me read it as some bitter, nasty rant - which i think it probably is, hence my reply to it.

    Indeed they are 😁

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edinburgher View Post
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    Commoditised andcommercialised New Year celebrations, born and bred Edinburgher`s being priced out of the city by the swarm of southerners purchasing all property, touristsbeing put first, traditional working class boozers turned into generic coffeeshops and mundane middle -class "bars", gentrification of areas likeLeith…………..


    Does anyone else (ornot) think the city is soulless these days?
    Soulless?

    That's probably the last word I'd use to describe Edinburgh.

    Every time I come back and get off the train at Waverley, I'm struck by how vibrant and exciting the city is.

    I used to take Princes Street for granted, but I now find it almost overwhelming. It's joyous, not soulless.

    I remember Edinburgh in the 70s and 80s. The city centre was full, dull, dull.

    Soulless would have been a compliment.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    It should also be celebrated because of its diversity.
    Indeed it should, yet having the nicer parts of many cities unoccupied much of the time because the owner is living elsewhere, dilutes diversity. London is the most extreme example of course, where many areas have been socially cleansed of all but the very wealthy, meaning the diversity has been lost.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    It's a booming and successful city for some e.g. property speculators, as this thread discusses. For many it's getting increasingly difficult to survive, and keeping a roof over one's head is fundamental to that. The shocking rise in homelessness and food banks are indicators which suggest it isn't booming for a lot of people. There are many factors in this of course: employment, wages, education, social services etc; the growing lack of affordable housing is but one. One thing we definitely need is a massive housebuilding plan for the public sector. The UK has one million people, a good proportion of them children, living in temporary accommodation such as bed and breakfasts because of the chronic housing shortage. Slum landlords in the private sector who are filling the gap, is another issue to address. Hundreds of thousands of new homes in the public sector will reduce demand, and thus prices, in the private sector.
    Exactly. To me, there are no genuine arguments against a mass program of public sector house building...not private or "affordable"...public sector.

    There also seems to be a misconception that it's foreigners causing all the problems...southern investors and immigrants increasing demand. A rental property in Edinburgh is more likely to be owned by a fellow Edinburgh resident, probably just a rich one living in a suburb.
    There was an article in the Evening news about refugees being housed in Scotland and the comments were sad, most along the lines of the SNP losing their vote because they prioritise immigrants who are taking up this precious resource. They'll probably vote for party who will maintain the status quo and and target immigrants rather than one that will solve the real problem here...housing.

    People can talk all they want and quote figures but working night shift on the cabs for ten years, I've seen first hand what's happening. Lots of these "foreigners" work in industries that require unsociable hours and they're working their bollox off. They are definitely adding to the soul of the city but their housing needs should be met by the state instead of private investors. Other young people are living in flats that they will never be able to afford because they have no choice. They don't quite know what to do because if they have good jobs, they'll have to sacrifice so much to save for a deposit and if they've a normal job, they've no chance as all their money is going on rent. Where is there room for the stuff that makes life worth living such as leisure time? How can they even begin to think about putting roots down and starting a family in Edinburgh? It's not just a financial bubble, it's a mental health one but no doubt it will be swept under the carpet by those with vested interests such as the press and the liberal politicians.

    It's all very well stepping off a plane and thinking the place is buzzing but there's a darker side to all this "growth". It simply can't go on like this.

  9. #38
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    Nothing stays the same , the international make up of Edinburgh, for me, has created a new vibrant soul ..and Long may it keep evolving ...

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Nothing stays the same , the international make up of Edinburgh, for me, has created a new vibrant soul ..and Long may it keep evolving ...
    If I understand the OP correctly, he laments the individuality of the city being lost. The same can be said of many places now, where there are Starbucks every fifty yards and all the new building look the same. In some instances you'd be hard pushed to tell city centres apart.
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  11. #40
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    Regarding the "swarms of southerners" hiking up property prices, I'd be prepared to wager that the majority of rental property is owned by native Edinburgh landlords.
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  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Regarding the "swarms of southerners" hiking up property prices, I'd be prepared to wager that the majority of rental property is owned by native Edinburgh landlords.
    Buy to let is a modern curse, creating huge price increases as a consequence of folk buying properties they have no intention of ever living in. This of course creates a vicious cycle of rising prices and fewer homes available to buy for families.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    If I understand the OP correctly, he laments the individuality of the city being lost. The same can be said of many places now, where there are Starbucks every fifty yards and all the new building look the same. In some instances you'd be hard pushed to tell city centres apart.
    I do agree with this - and i would be all for looking st how we can keep small indepensent retailers thriving. I believe charity shops are part ofbthe problem also as they pay different rates, or something like that, and habe fewer costs.

    But it is democracy in action - Starbucks are everywhere because people buy from it (not personally, but in a general sense).

  14. #43
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    Nah , Edinburgh's still great. People just like to complain that things were better in the past.

  15. #44
    I'll move out of Edinburgh within 2/3 years because I can't afford to live in the city for much longer. I'm going to have nursery fees to deal with soon, rent to pay and still try to save to buy somewhere and none of that is doable on my current income in Edinburgh. Sad but true.

    It's a great city in many ways but for a lot of people trying to make ends meet that comes at a cost.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edinburgher View Post
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    Commoditised andcommercialised New Year celebrations, born and bred Edinburgher`s being priced out of the city by the swarm of southerners purchasing all property, touristsbeing put first, traditional working class boozers turned into generic coffeeshops and mundane middle -class "bars", gentrification of areas likeLeith…………..


    Does anyone else (ornot) think the city is soulless these days?
    I moved from Edinburgh in 1992 but remember the drunken street fight that was New Year up the Tron and not with any fondness. As a comparison George Square in Glasgow was equally crap.

    In contrast New Year in Glasgow’s West End was quite a convivial affair and very local. The town centre events bring a lot of money in and are maybe a victim of their own success. I wouldn’t go but if others want to, fine.

  17. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by samcrowe View Post
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    The point is people from wealthier areas I.e. London. But just as much Russia and the middle East are buying property in Edinburgh for vastly over inflated prices. Meaning people who have lived here all their lives and do work hard are priced out of their own city. They might still be able to pay their way, just, but the quality of their life takes a hit as they spend more and more money on rent/mortgage and council tax because the prices have been driven up.

    What the OP is clearly saying is it's not fair people are being priced out of Edinburgh having lived and worked here all their days. I doubt the OP is racist either he could have said northerners if folk from Aberdeen were doing it. Imagine everyone in Edinburgh started buying second homes in Livingston and the locals struggled to afford to live there? Would that be fair?
    I certainly fancy buying a property in Edinburgh when I retire!!!

  18. #47
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    As an ex resident of the city every time I come through for a night out I love it. The city centre has improved massively and if the council had not developed the city we would lose thousands of tourists and millions from the citys economy which would mean less jobs of the residents. Edinburgh should be celebrated as a fantastic city to work, rest and play in
    This in spades. Rose Street and Lothian Road are umpteen times nicer than in my youth.

    Edinburgh is great. Looking forward to a decent stretch there from Friday onwards.

  19. #48
    First Team Breakthrough Lendo's Avatar
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    Wow. never seen a thread decent in to insults as quickly as this one has.

    I was born in Edinburgh and currently live in Leith. The biggest issue I have with the city at themoment (and this isn’t restricted to just Edinburgh) is the relentless surge inAir B&B properties.There are nowfour in my stairwell and five in my girlfriends block.
    That is nine flats that would previously been rented privately or used to house those in need. The sheer number of flats that have gone off the market is driving up private rent (a study in the US found that for a 10% increase in Air B&B listings for an area the average rent in that area also increased by 0.4% and property value increased 0.64%). Edinburgh now has around 6,200 listings on Air B&B.

    There is an argument to say that this helps to regenerate an areas local economy. Air B&B claim that 44% of visitor spending happens in the local area around the property.This is maybe apparent in Leith and its continued gentrification.

    Note: I am a total hypocrite and use AirB&B whenever I go away for a long weekend.
    Last edited by Lendo; 20-12-2017 at 11:52 AM.

  20. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    This in spades. Rose Street and Lothian Road are umpteen times nicer than in my youth.

    Edinburgh is great. Looking forward to a decent stretch there from Friday onwards.
    Not aimed at you directly but it's interesting a lot of people singing Edinburghs praises open with 'I used to', 'I moved from' or 'I love visiting'.

    Not living in the city probably offers a pretty decent level of protection from rising house prices, scandalous rents and continuing cuts to public services. It's interesting to note that in the UK whilst house prices continue to rise (the sign of a strong economy apparently) the number of homeowners has been stagnating for 15 years and the rise has been modest in 30. It's not a problem specific to one area but a desirable area like Edinburgh is always going to be harder hit. I dont't have a figure for Edinburgh but for a rough comparison; 30 years ago a home in Oxford cost approx 3 times an annual salary, it's now 11 times. It's unsustainable for all but the few.

  21. #50
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    It's not even a buy to let scourge, it's a buy to holiday let scourge. I've stayed in the old town for two years now, there are multiple lockboxes on just about every front door. The airbnb market is much much more profitable for the landlord and more or less unregulated in terms of fit for occupancy. I stay in a post war block of flats and I have only a handful of fulltime neighbours. Instead I get a never ending stream of luggage wheeling up and downstairs at all hours of the day and bins that are emptied in the morning and full again the same evening. The housing stock for rental is rapidly disappearing and pushing prices up to ridiculous levels. £850pcm for a one bed flat, gtf!!
    I understand Edinburgh thrives on tourism but somebody needs to step in and regulate it in some way. I feel that in a few years it'll just be me living my life, going to work surrounded by nothing but a sea of people struggling with keyboxes

  22. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendo View Post
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    Wow. never seen a thread decent in to insults as quickly as this one has.

    I was born in Edinburgh and currently live in Leith. The biggest issue I have with the city at themoment (and this isn’t restricted to just Edinburgh) is the relentless surge inAir B&B properties.There are nowfour in my stairwell and five in my girlfriends block.
    That is nine flats that would previously been rented privately or used to house those in need. The sheer number of flats that have gone off the market is driving up private rent (a study in the US found that for a 10% increase in Air B&B listings for an area the average rent in that area also increased by 0.4% and property value increased 0.64%). Edinburgh now has around 6,200 listings on Air B&B.

    There is an argument to say that this helps to regenerate an areas local economy. Air B&B claim that 44% of visitor spending happens in the local area around the property.This is maybe apparent in Leith and its continued gentrification.

    Note: I am a total hypocrite and use AirB&B whenever I go away for a long weekend.
    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    It's not even a buy to let scourge, it's a buy to holiday let scourge. I've stayed in the old town for two years now, there are multiple lockboxes on just about every front door. The airbnb market is much much more profitable for the landlord and more or less unregulated in terms of fit for occupancy. I stay in a post war block of flats and I have only a handful of fulltime neighbours. Instead I get a never ending stream of luggage wheeling up and downstairs at all hours of the day and bins that are emptied in the morning and full again the same evening. The housing stock for rental is rapidly disappearing and pushing prices up to ridiculous levels. £850pcm for a one bed flat, gtf!!
    I understand Edinburgh thrives on tourism but somebody needs to step in and regulate it in some way. I feel that in a few years it'll just be me living my life, going to work surrounded by nothing but a sea of people struggling with keyboxes
    Air B&B. Is this where somebody buys a property to let out for short term stays to tourists? I didn't know it's such a big thing.
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  23. #52
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    It's the classic classic conundrum of a successful city.

    Leith Walk is a bit of a bellweather for me. It's rather difficult to find a pub to watch football in now but on the flip side you have a vibrant cafe culture generating money for the local economy.

    The down side of that is that the traditional housing that surrounds the street is now out of a lot of people's price range with a 2 bed in an old tenement going for close to £200k nowadays.

    But there is no doubt Edinburgh was pretty drab and soulless in the 80's and early 90's so I think a lot of the changes are for the better.

    That said it's pretty clear the City itself is drastically underfunded and it should have been the SG's priority to give Edi its fair share of the revenue it raises and have allowed it to open up other routes to raise money.

  24. #53
    It's terribly sad for so many of the working class who grew up all their life in Leith (as did their families) and now this generation can't afford to buy or rent there. And no chance for social housing either.

    Everytime I come to Edinburgh I find the amount of rubbish & dog poo in the street appalling. But as a city, I like it. But wouldn't live there if I moved to Scotland. Would just come to ER every 2nd Saturday!!!
    Last edited by Swedish hibee; 21-12-2017 at 09:55 AM.

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Air B&B. Is this where somebody buys a property to let out for short term stays to tourists? I didn't know it's such a big thing.
    Pretty much and it’s growing.

    Buy-to-let turbo...and all the problems associated with an overwhelmingly transient population are also increased.

  26. #55
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Not aimed at you directly but it's interesting a lot of people singing Edinburghs praises open with 'I used to', 'I moved from' or 'I love visiting'.

    Not living in the city probably offers a pretty decent level of protection from rising house prices, scandalous rents and continuing cuts to public services. It's interesting to note that in the UK whilst house prices continue to rise (the sign of a strong economy apparently) the number of homeowners has been stagnating for 15 years and the rise has been modest in 30. It's not a problem specific to one area but a desirable area like Edinburgh is always going to be harder hit. I dont't have a figure for Edinburgh but for a rough comparison; 30 years ago a home in Oxford cost approx 3 times an annual salary, it's now 11 times. It's unsustainable for all but the few.
    I was going to add the caveat that yes, I get to stay rent free ta very much in my childhood home just off London Road and jolly nice it is too. I just meant from the walking around, going to pubs/restaurants POV not from a deeper social POV.

    Have also lived in Oxford for 2 years as it happens and what you say is true and visibly so. Very much "town Vs gown' there.

    Back to Edinburgh, I don't know exactly which era folk would like to go back to housing wise. Like you I don't have a number but at any point in history there'll have been a certain chunk of the local population "left behind" as the town evolves and housing stock (average quality wise) improves (not talking about quantity or affordability here but as a nipper I spent a fair bit of time in the car being driven around old Wester Hailes as my Mum worked out there. I can't talk for the intangible sense of community angle, but there's a vast then Vs now difference in the housing quality at least)

    If/when I move back, I'll doubtless have more to say on the matter but I do know of various friends (admittedly childless) who work decent but pretty normal jobs and are now on the property ladder in nice places within striking distance of the centre, so it's not impossible.

    On a separate note, I'm sure it's due to cuts and/or the fact I live in sterile Switzerland, but it's my impression that large swathes of central Edinburgh could do with a bloody good "power hose and scrub' session
    Last edited by lyonhibs; 20-12-2017 at 12:13 PM.

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Air B&B. Is this where somebody buys a property to let out for short term stays to tourists? I didn't know it's such a big thing.
    exactly that.

    Airbnb listings in Scotland increased by 184% from January 2016 to January 2017.

    There are New Town flats which have 5 beds in each of the 5 bedrooms. Imaging being a resident in that stairwell and having stag do's of 25 people turning up each weekend.

  28. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Not aimed at you directly but it's interesting a lot of people singing Edinburghs praises open with 'I used to', 'I moved from' or 'I love visiting'.

    Not living in the city probably offers a pretty decent level of protection from rising house prices, scandalous rents and continuing cuts to public services. It's interesting to note that in the UK whilst house prices continue to rise (the sign of a strong economy apparently) the number of homeowners has been stagnating for 15 years and the rise has been modest in 30. It's not a problem specific to one area but a desirable area like Edinburgh is always going to be harder hit. I dont't have a figure for Edinburgh but for a rough comparison; 30 years ago a home in Oxford cost approx 3 times an annual salary, it's now 11 times. It's unsustainable for all but the few.
    We sold our flat in oxgangs about 4 years ago for 110k - two bed, family starter/young couple flat in a block of six - surely prices cant have risen that much in 4 years?

    If average salary is circa 27k, x 2, that is only twice a 54k salary.

    I apprdciate this is highly anecdotal, and not everyone will fit into these broad figures, but that doesnt seem unaffordable?

    I accept Edinburgh is an expensive city, but that is the price of success - there are plenty of cheap cities, but generally people dont want to live in them or there is little work.

    I think something has to be done though, to increas supply. Rhere will always be bars / shops / houses that are out of any given persons reach, thats life, but a situation where virtual renting agencies afe taking over does seem unfair - im not sure what the solution is though?

  29. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish hibee View Post
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    It's terribly sad for so many of the working class who grew up all their life in Leith (as did their families) and now this generation can't afford to buy or rent there. And no chance for social housing either.

    Everytime I come to Edinburgh I find the amount of rubbish & dog poo in the street appalling. But as a city, I like it.
    Every time I leave the house on a Saturday or Sunday morning it's like waking into an open sewer, kebabs and vomit everywhere.
    Most times I come home on a Friday or Saturday night there's always some **** taking a slash against someone's door and groups of "lads" strolling about screaming at the top of their lungs, wtf is that all about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    It's the classic classic conundrum of a successful city.

    Leith Walk is a bit of a bellweather for me. It's rather difficult to find a pub to watch football in now but on the flip side you have a vibrant cafe culture generating money for the local economy.

    The down side of that is that the traditional housing that surrounds the street is now out of a lot of people's price range with a 2 bed in an old tenement going for close to £200k nowadays.

    But there is no doubt Edinburgh was pretty drab and soulless in the 80's and early 90's so I think a lot of the changes are for the better.

    That said it's pretty clear the City itself is drastically underfunded and it should have been the SG's priority to give Edi its fair share of the revenue it raises and have allowed it to open up other routes to raise money.
    Funnily enough, my groyp who go to Easter Road were lamenting this the other week after the match.

    But lets not get too romantic about Leith or Leith Walk, it was shabby and run-down for years, full of bookies and horrible pubs.

    Its sad to an extent - same thing has happened in the South Side recently too. All the old time jakeballs are struggling to get a crap pint these days...!

    Also we shouldn't overlook how many working class families have done very well out of Edinburgh's property prices.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 20-12-2017 at 12:19 PM.

  31. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Relplace the word southerners with blacks. Or Poles.

    Im certain you wouldnt be defending it then.

    Leaving that aside, it is an ill-informed bitter rant that is just not true.
    I happen to agree with the OP, and don't find his remark to be racist. On the morning commute through Morningside, you could be forgiven for thinking you were in south-east England some mornings.

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