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  1. #121
    @hibs.net private member steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Can I ask how many children go to your daughters school?

    Do you know if that bursary element is proportionate throughout the independent sector?
    The guy on the radio being dramatic about the business rates for Clifton Hall school was saying that 3 of 358 kids are on bursaries.

    That, to me, feels almost like it's the absolute bare minimum to keep up the illusion of charity.


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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    I think people overlook the influence the parents have, makes a massive difference I believe.

    Too many parents see the school as some kind of childcare facility rather than engaging with their kids and taking an active interest and encouraging them to learn.
    Completely the opposite.

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    On 30k it's around 20%. On 80k it's about 35%.
    This guardian article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...e-australia-us

    Claims that for the UK -

    Gross salary £25,000
    After tax £20,279
    Tax rate 18.9%

    Gross salary £40,000
    After tax £30,480
    Tax rate 24.8%

    Gross salary £100,000
    After tax £65,780
    Tax rate 34.3%

    cf Sweden -

    Gross salary £25,000
    After tax £19,500
    Tax rate 22%

    Gross salary £40,000
    After tax £30,000
    Tax rate 25%

    Gross salary £100,000
    After tax £55,000
    Tax rate 45%

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    This guardian article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...e-australia-us

    Claims that for the UK -

    Gross salary £25,000
    After tax £20,279
    Tax rate 18.9%

    Gross salary £40,000
    After tax £30,480
    Tax rate 24.8%

    Gross salary £100,000
    After tax £65,780
    Tax rate 34.3%

    cf Sweden -

    Gross salary £25,000
    After tax £19,500
    Tax rate 22%

    Gross salary £40,000
    After tax £30,000
    Tax rate 25%

    Gross salary £100,000
    After tax £55,000
    Tax rate 45%
    Does that include NI too (effectively an income tax)?

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Does that include NI too (effectively an income tax)?
    Yes

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Yes
    Very interesting! Thank-you for posting.

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish hibee View Post
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    Very interesting! Thank-you for posting.
    You're welcome.

  9. #128
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patch1875 View Post
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    Completely the opposite.
    What do you mean?

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    What do you mean?
    Parents who sent their kids to private school are taking an active interest in their children's education, making sacrifices to ensure they get off to as good a start as possible and don't see it as some sort of expensive childcare - as you suggested.

    I didn't go to private school, and found the concept quite alien - I don't know the %'s, but not many kids in Glenrothes went to private school! I've since moved to Edinburgh and I know a lot of people from a variety of backgrounds who went to private school. It's somewhat muddied my view, and something that I would have previously never considered doing, sending my kids to private school, I'd be more open to considering when the time came.
    Mon the Hibs.

  11. #130
    @hibs.net private member CapitalGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Parents who sent their kids to private school are taking an active interest in their children's education, making sacrifices to ensure they get off to as good a start as possible and don't see it as some sort of expensive childcare - as you suggested.

    I didn't go to private school, and found the concept quite alien - I don't know the %'s, but not many kids in Glenrothes went to private school! I've since moved to Edinburgh and I know a lot of people from a variety of backgrounds who went to private school. It's somewhat muddied my view, and something that I would have previously never considered doing, sending my kids to private school, I'd be more open to considering when the time came.
    Unless I'm mistaken I don't think he was referring to the parents of Private school pupils.

  12. #131
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalGreen View Post
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    Unless I'm mistaken I don't think he was referring to the parents of Private school pupils.
    You're right - I read it wrong. Sorry johnb.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Yes
    Cheers - interesting stats and interesting reading.

    It doesnt include council tax though i dont think, but given the difficulty in comparing numerous complex systems, that is a good read.

    Had no idea about the church tax in Germany, seems mad.

    Also quite a few seem to have far lower personal allowances than the UK, which of coursr may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view.

    Would it not be possible for a government to levy a tax on registered users of social media companies as a way to resdpond and tax those companies (i mean tax the company per user, not the person).

    This would seem like an obvious solution to their sliperiness, and if they decided to pull out of the country, there would be no loss. Just something i was mulling over...
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 19-12-2017 at 02:42 PM.

  14. #133
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    You're right - I read it wrong. Sorry johnb.
    That's OK.

  15. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    That's OK.
    Iím the same thought you referring to private school education, well seeing I didnít do well at school😆

  16. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I had a state school education, and it was generally faultless.

    (Most of the problems I had/have are due to awful career choices and being a soft kid who had pushy parents, but that's a story for another day and another place).

    If I knew the same education was going to be delivered now, I'd have no doubts about sending my kids to a state school.

    The problem is, there has been a silent erosion of the standards of all state provisions over the past few decades and standards will be nowhere near where they were when I was at school. I work within (very loosely) the healthcare sector and when you start to see what the NHS can do vs what private healthcare can often do (and consider the reputation that the NHS has elsewhere in the world) you can't hero but wonder if the same situation exists in all sectors, including education.

    Politicians of every type are the lowest form of ****. They interfere and play with people's health, lives, livelihoods and prospects. They are the ones who shoulder the blame for being unable to have a sensible conversation with the public regarding what we should expect for the taxes we spend. From Brown and Blair into the Tory austerity years we've seen standards drop and their job as they see it has not been to improve matters - it's been to hide from us the true state of play and somehow make us continue to be grateful.

    In the unlikely event that my situation improves over the next few years, one of my priorities will be to ensure that my children are privately educated.

    And one of the things that I liked least from my childhood was the "inverse snobbery" that went on towards good friends of mine whose parents happened to have chosen a different educational path for them. People are people, and deserve respect of not being judged positively or negatively depending on whether their parents happen to have chosen to pay for their education, and it is a prejudice that works both ways.

    Really? Like most people of my age (secondary in the 80s) I had a pretty mixed bag with some good teachers, some hopeless, most demoralised, with a background of strikes, nothing extra-curricular and pretty dilapidated surroundings. I went to Currie which was way overcrowded until Balerno opened, with half the classrooms in various huts dotted about the place.

    My sons, 1 finished, 1 in 6th year, have also had a fairly mixed bag but on the whole I'd say a better school experience in the state sector than I had.

    I have a principled objection to private education (as articulated already by H&A etc) but not so principled as not to move house to a perceived "good school" catchment before we had kids. I would say it's one thing to have principles and quite another to actually subject your kids to something you perceive to be worse in the name of those principles. As it happens, I've been happy with the education they got and the money we haven't spent on fees has meant a richer life for them in terms of travel, etc and probably much less financially stressed parents!

    The private schools cream off not only the moneyed but also a good proportion of the most able kids and the most potentially involved parents. With all those people pulling for the state sector it would undoubtedly be better for all.

  17. #136
    Is not using the 6k that it costs per pupil each year classed as contributing?

  18. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Really? Like most people of my age (secondary in the 80s) I had a pretty mixed bag with some good teachers, some hopeless, most demoralised, with a background of strikes, nothing extra-curricular and pretty dilapidated surroundings. I went to Currie which was way overcrowded until Balerno opened, with half the classrooms in various huts dotted about the place.

    My sons, 1 finished, 1 in 6th year, have also had a fairly mixed bag but on the whole I'd say a better school experience in the state sector than I had.

    I have a principled objection to private education (as articulated already by H&A etc) but not so principled as not to move house to a perceived "good school" catchment before we had kids. I would say it's one thing to have principles and quite another to actually subject your kids to something you perceive to be worse in the name of those principles. As it happens, I've been happy with the education they got and the money we haven't spent on fees has meant a richer life for them in terms of travel, etc and probably much less financially stressed parents!

    The private schools cream off not only the moneyed but also a good proportion of the most able kids and the most potentially involved parents. With all those people pulling for the state sector it would undoubtedly be better for all.

    Its a very good point about catchment areas. I even once read a study that said that it cost more to pay tge catchment area premium than to pay school fees.

    It was certaibly the biggest consideration when i was house hunting.

  19. #138
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I agree for the most part but the one thing a private school does get you is access to their old boy network which sadly, even in 2017, is worth having in some Edinburgh professions.
    I went to an aforementioned private school. Could you kindly provide me the details of how I might tap up this nebulous "old boy network". Would I just hang around Charlotte Square and make braying noises until one of them recognised me?

  20. #139
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr White View Post
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    Another 10/10 from me too. Have experienced a lot of it myself as a lad and still hear the stock phrase "posh ****" get used far too much just because of someone's education history.

  21. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    Another 10/10 from me too. Have experienced a lot of it myself as a lad and still hear the stock phrase "posh ****" get used far too much just because of someone's education history.
    But thats OK abuse...

    Its almost as if jealousy and dogma, and not a desire for 'fairness' is the main motivator for some people on this issue ...

  22. #141
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    But thats OK abuse...

    Its almost as if jealousy and dogma, and not a desire for 'fairness' is the main motivator for some people on this issue ...
    I think it's only fair that we all get Skiing holidays.

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/12...kiing-holiday/

    The shrill of Tory hacks, and their supporters is fair game.

  23. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I think it's only fair that we all get Skiing holidays.

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/12...kiing-holiday/

    The shrill of Tory hacks, and their supporters is fair game.
    It's a pretty shrill piece itself. MSW is, strangely enough, a bit of a free marketeer but has written plenty attacking Tory policies as well. I don't agree with everything she says but to some degree she has a point here. You can't just ignore the fact that as the gap grows larger between what take home pay people will get in rUK v Scotland that it won't be a consideration for some...and that some may well be in the very same income brackets that the tax system is relying on more and more to pay larger proportions of the total income tax pot.

    A point of course shared by no other than Derek MacKay who rather recently I believe had the opportunity to deliver significant tax rises at the upper level but declined to do so as he believed they wouldn't work.

  24. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    It's a pretty shrill piece itself. MSW is, strangely enough, a bit of a free marketeer but has written plenty attacking Tory policies as well. I don't agree with everything she says but to some degree she has a point here. You can't just ignore the fact that as the gap grows larger between what take home pay people will get in rUK v Scotland that it won't be a consideration for some...and that some may well be in the very same income brackets that the tax system is relying on more and more to pay larger proportions of the total income tax pot.

    A point of course shared by no other than Derek MacKay who rather recently I believe had the opportunity to deliver significant tax rises at the upper level but declined to do so as he believed they wouldn't work.
    A good point. The SNP are walking a bit of a political tight rope, with the tories stalking them from the right (their traditional base) and now the prospect of a resurgent, left wing labour attacking them from thw left (their new base).

    I think MacKay trod a fairly balanced path, the problem i think he will have is that he will now (rightly or wrongly) be judged on the outcomes that result from these increases, and my gut instinct is that the increases are not high enough to make a big, obvious or quick difference to the bottom line of outcomes - but maybe not, and maybe the publix sector pay rise will be enough to win folk around / or keep them onside.

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