Stokes

[andybev1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/...ip/top-scorers

not a lot in the stats

[BSEJVT]

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Fair point mate

I accept that the 'party line' jibe was a step too far and for that I apologise.

Good on you

Takes a big man to do that

[Firestarter]

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People throwing Murray under the bus in defense of Stokes is pish. Murray acts like a man who loves every minute of being at Hibs on and off the pitch, Stokes sometimes looks like a man who would be anywhere else.

So because their body language is different we are to kid on Murray is better than Stokesy?

[IlDiavola]

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Good on you

Takes a big man to do that

Cheers for saying that, much appreciated.

[IlDiavola]

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So because their body language is different we are to kid on Murray is better than Stokesy?

Don't need to kid on that Murray is better than Stokes because quite clearly he is not.

The guy was just pointing out that one player over another shows far more enthusiasm and, for me, that's the sort of attitude one should allude to applauding in a Hibs player.

[21.05.2016]

Stokes isn't cutting it for me regularly enough. His cup final heroics definatly tainted folks memories of his last spell with us IMO and made folk more keen to bring him back. He ran a riot on 21.05.16 and had the game of his life but before that, bar the odd few occassions, he was poor. In a poor league like the Championship he should have scored far more.

Forever a legend but for me i'm sorry but he is not the answer.

[IlDiavola]

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Stokes isn't cutting it for me regularly enough. His cup final heroics definatly tainted folks memories of his last spell with us IMO and made folk more keen to bring him back. He ran a riot on 21.05.16 and had the game of his life but before that, bar the odd few occassions, he was poor. In a poor league like the Championship he should have scored far more.

Forever a legend but for me i'm sorry but he is not the answer.

I'm starting to like this thread.

[Lago]

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I thought Stokes was excellent, some of his touches,especially when surrounded by multiple players was immense, some folk on here seem to have a need of bringing our players down regularly, I have done it myself on occasion when warranted but on here it seems a few need to always complain about the same players, Lewis and now it seems Stokesy.

Does so much that is unseen and unappreciated.

[Onion]

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Does so much that is unseen and unappreciated.

Quality player who's 2 steps ahead the rest. Up to the manager to motivate, deploy and get the best out of him.

[Lago]

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Quality player who's 2 steps ahead the rest. Up to the manager to motivate, deploy and get the best out of him.

Correct & because he is ahead in his play when others aren't it makes him look like he has miss placed a pass, made a wrong run or no run etc etc.

[cleanyman]

Stokes is quality.

Yeah he's not been performing but he's still an important player for us. Lovely pass on Sunday led to the equaliser and I thought he played well on Wednesday.

He just needs to bang them in and no love will be lost

[Iggy Pope]

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See that thing that was the pinnacle of your Hibs career - we’re gonna forget about that and judge you on a crappy night in Inverness instead...

He was actually brilliant one crappy night in Inverness as well, on the way to that defining day. Might've already been mentioned.

[Centre Hawf]

It's fairly simple really.

Stokes has all the ability to make a difference, but his attitude and work rate means he will only do that on rare occasions.

Murray has the right attitude and work rate to make a difference, but his lack of genuine ability means he will only do that on rare occasions.

New striker needed as neither one of these men will take this club forward I'm afraid, thank you Stokes for that day in May, thank you Simon for your work ethic. But let's not sit and pretend that either one with these attributes alone will bang the goals in to get us challenging Aberdeen and Rangers for second.

[Firestarter]

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Don't need to kid on that Murray is better than Stokes because quite clearly he is not.

The guy was just pointing out that one player over another shows far more enthusiasm and, for me, that's the sort of attitude one should allude to applauding in a Hibs player.

I would rather have the class than looking happy playing. Trying hard gets you a lot of leeway these days end product or not.

[majorhibs]

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Correct & because he is ahead in his play when others aren't it makes him look like he has miss placed a pass, made a wrong run or no run etc etc.

See Stevie Archibald!

[Firestarter]

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Correct & because he is ahead in his play when others aren't it makes him look like he has miss placed a pass, made a wrong run or no run etc etc.

Correct.

[jacomo]

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It's fairly simple really.

Stokes has all the ability to make a difference, but his attitude and work rate means he will only do that on rare occasions.

Murray has the right attitude and work rate to make a difference, but his lack of genuine ability means he will only do that on rare occasions.

New striker needed as neither one of these men will take this club forward I'm afraid, thank you Stokes for that day in May, thank you Simon for your work ethic. But let's not sit and pretend that either one with these attributes alone will bang the goals in to get us challenging Aberdeen and Rangers for second.

Why don't we put them in a blender?

Murray's age, pace and attitude, mixed with Stokes' ability and awareness, and we'd have a £20m player.

[Lago]

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See Stevie Archibald!

There was a quality signing.

[Eaststandee]

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So because their body language is different we are to kid on Murray is better than Stokesy?

That's not what I said though is it?

I don't understand why you're slating Murray in defense of another player, if you think people's opinion of Stokes are wrong then fair enough, but why stick the boot into Murray? It adds nothing to the debate other than more negativity.

[hhibs]

Anyone know who ,in Stokes career were his most successful partners?

Go get him if possible or identify his abilities and find another match for them.

Just a thought.

[Northernhibee]

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Quality player who's 2 steps ahead the rest. Up to the manager to motivate, deploy and get the best out of him.

Can't agree, if you're reliant on someone else to get you motivated to play for a club with the support and history of Hibs then just don't bother.

Stokes needs to take responsibility for himself and his attitude. Nobody else.

[SChibs]

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I disagree with most of this.

It's quite often not Stokes's role to drop deep. It was in the first half yesterday and he did ok. Various other times he has been asked to play at the tip of the spear and he's been found wanting.

You mention his ability to do something special. That is recognised and it's precisely because of this ability that people find him so frustrating - he's not contributing nearly enough for someone with that ability. That's his responsibility, it's nobody else's fault.

Murray doesn't get a fraction of the criticism that Stokes gets because he was a free transfer punt, he's performing far above most people's reasonable expectations and is clearly improving every month. He's earning his wage and more.

Stokes is meant to be our talisman, probably the highest paid player and a leader on the park. His body language is shocking, he's getting into arguments with team mates and manager and he's not delivering nearly enough on the park.

What do you mean it's not his role? If stokes wasn't to drop in for the ball surely Lennon would tell him not to do it. If he continued to do it he'd surely be dropped. How do you know where he is meant to be playing exactly?

[Smartie]

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Anyone know who ,in Stokes career were his most successful partners?

Go get him if possible or identify his abilities and find another match for them.

Just a thought.

One of the finest double-act performances I've seen at Easter Road was when Stokes and Hooper absolutely dismantled us when playing for Celtic a few years ago, possibly when Fenlon was our manager. They took about 6 off us, and I wouldn't have dreamt on that day that Stokes would be back with us within a few years.

Stokes had a Hampden-esque performance against us. Quick, nimble, mobile, he pulled us all over the place and Hooper did likewise.

The problem is, I don't think Stokes is the player he was at that time. He's not as fast, mobile or quick. Not to say he's not still a good player, he's just different, for a number of reasons, and who might have been the best partner for him then might not necessarily be the best partner for him now.

I genuinely don't know how the modern Stokes fits best into team, where he plays or who he partners.

[Firestarter]

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That's not what I said though is it?

I don't understand why you're slating Murray in defense of another player, if you think people's opinion of Stokes are wrong then fair enough, but why stick the boot into Murray? It adds nothing to the debate other than more negativity.

I'm not. Others brought Murray into it no me.

[Firestarter]

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Anyone know who ,in Stokes career were his most successful partners?

Go get him if possible or identify his abilities and find another match for them.

Just a thought.

Colin Nish?

I've mentioned before, the best season Stokes has had in his career is when he played with Zemmama and Liam Miller behind him. He outshine Riordan and I even remember him coming in off the right.

[HoboHarry]

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See Stevie Archibald!

Indeed - and not for Hibs of course but Kenny Dalglish for Scotland probably the best example of all....

[eastcoasthibby]

I think its a mix of everything that means we're not getting the best benefitting from the real potential that Stokes has , some of it is about him and some what happens around him. The him part is about his attitude, committment, motivation and condition/fitness.
The whats around him is service to him, players on his wavelength, movement to give him space or work off him, understand and support his strengths, ..ie he wont run and burst his backside, as much as others, his ability is with the ball at his feet.
I get as frustrated as anyone with him and if I was to pick the biggest problem affecting his performances it would be his attitude doesnt focus and work hard enough to get the ball or retain the ball. Some of which leads to my questioning his fitness and his relationship with team mates, it looks like he is constantly moaning about things, I get.that to an extent given some of the service he gets and also lack of service, instead of when it breaks down moaning maybe its a chat about what was expected and encouragement to do it better,he should be.one.of our few leaders on the pitch, with his experience, knowledge and ability...he is as he shows at times has the ability to dominate games and get more.out of those around him but as is well recorded doesn't do it anywhere often enough, ...hence is he fit enough and able to do what he wants in games ....at the end of all.that he has great ability nust needs.to get himself into the right.mental and.physical shape to be able.to do it throughout games ...if we could get another 20-30 % out.of him this thread wouldn't exist.

[Forza Fred]

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One of the finest double-act performances I've seen at Easter Road was when Stokes and Hooper absolutely dismantled us when playing for Celtic a few years ago, possibly when Fenlon was our manager. They took about 6 off us, and I wouldn't have dreamt on that day that Stokes would be back with us within a few years.

Stokes had a Hampden-esque performance against us. Quick, nimble, mobile, he pulled us all over the place and Hooper did likewise.

The problem is, I don't think Stokes is the player he was at that time. He's not as fast, mobile or quick. Not to say he's not still a good player, he's just different, for a number of reasons, and who might have been the best partner for him then might not necessarily be the best partner for him now.

I genuinely don't know how the modern Stokes fits best into team, where he plays or who he partners.

Good post.

That's the way I remember him at Hampden playing on the left when he ripped us apart in the 2013 cup final.

Him and Hooper were in another class that day.

[madhatter]

He is so good that he is on the bench today. He has all the skill necessary to be successful even now at the latter stages of his career. He sorely needs to get his head sorted and show what he can genuinely do and not in small flickers. He’s playing like a winger, so inconsistent and more often than not terrible with the odd flurry of excellence.

[The Leith Dutch]

I think singling out one player - either Stokes or Murray - misses the real problems we have:

1. We don't create particularly good chances - our crossing is poor and we lack a killer ball creative player
2. We don't have goal scoring midfielders (Boyle being the possible exception)
3. We can't shoot from distance
4. None of our strikers are either a classic poacher or a Griffiths like "goal from nothing" player

You can add to that the fact that all those things combine to make the situation worse (e.g. the inability to shoot from distance and lack of goal scoring midfielders make the defenders job of marking the strikers easier).

We're be no means a bad team but I think we'll continue to drop silly and frustrating points until we address at least 3 of the above issues.